Trolling, trolling: Manix II CTS- XHP

[nozh2002]

This thread was removed from the Spyderco forum thread "Manix II CTS- XHP" because the responses here were primarily personal and confrontational, not on the original topic at all. They made up about a third of that thread, which should do better without them. Anyone continuing this line of off-topic posting over there may expect infractions for it.

I think it was 1200 actually, two runs of 600

What Vasseli said was not true at all. Both M4 and s90v should hold an edge significantly better. Not to say XHP isn't a good steel. It has great all-around properties. Very rust resistant, very good edge holding, and easy to sharpen. I'd say it's more akin to s30v, but a bit tougher and a bit better for holding and edge, and of course less wear resistant cause it doesn't have the 4% vanadium of s30v

May be they should, but they don's. And both real world experience and tests shows this easy.

Here on blaeforum group of people clame themself experts because they talk a lot between each other about steels and vanadium content this and that, they just support each other in this talks and in results became more and more confdent that what they are talking about is truth, becuase all of them agreed to that. Same conclusion some outsider may came to because so meny "experts" talk about that. However after first good steel from Crucible - magnificent CPM 440V, introduced over 10 years ago, nothing really good came out of that company, and CPM S30V was total disaster throwing knife World back to poor performance. But those people continue same talks which were valid for CPM 440V steel 10 years ago, but has nothing to do with modern Crucible steels, even it is out of touch with reality for long years.

This is amazing really. They learn some phrases and just repeat them again and again, without bothering to do few cuts and compare real performance! They just need to be respected and supported on this forum, rather then enjoy good cutting tool. And when another real American super performer came - they just boo it, because it make them looks bad with all thair talks about modern Crucible steels which do not really performs well, but good because they have so much Vanadium or even Niobium... Those are all loser steels, desperate attempt by Crucible to repeat success of CPM 440V they destroy themself and do something about ZDP 189 which is mile ahead.

It was really embarrassing for American steel makers with all thise endless attempt to produce something comparable to Japanese ZDP-189 - CPM D2, CPM M4, CPM 154, CPM S110V etc - endless list of failures one after another. Until Spyderco try to use good old 440XH or now called CTS-XHP. Turns out while Crucible was attempting to do something without any clue and success, Carpenter has super performing blade steel already. But now with all this effort to push Crucible - and Spyderco even gave up mandatory requirement for their blade to be stainless and push hard for CPM M4, it seems to be really hard to accept this true super performer!

CTS-XHP is quite ahead of any Crucible - CPM S60V, CPM M4, CPM D2, CPM S90V... I do not even mention worse PM steel - CPM S30V, comparison to this one would be disrespect for any good steel especially CTS-XHP which is best Americal steel on production knives (while Dozier 2 little bit better, but it is custom).

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[The Mastiff]

CTS-XHP is quite ahead of any Crucible - CPM S60V, CPM M4, CPM D2, CPM S90V... I do not even mention worse PM steel - CPM S30V, comparison to this one would be disrespect for any good steel especially CTS-XHP which is best Americal steel on production knives (while Dozier 2 little bit better, but it is custom)

Right. Can you tell us which color is best? How about which flavor of ice cream? Mustard or mayonnaise on cheeseburgers? Oh yeah, and you are the only one here who has ever used a knife to cut anything.

You know, your writing is getting worse. I recall when you wrote just like us americans.

 

[spydusse]

Let's not forget its the guys second language . How many of you can write your second language better? Also, as crazy as some of his rambilings are I find people that tell me cpms30 will have similiar edge retention to xhp far crazier. Then talk about vanadium blah blah blah.like I said a bee isn't suppose to fly

 

[Bronco]

Right. Can you tell us which color is best? How about which flavor of ice cream? Mustard or mayonnaise on cheeseburgers? Oh yeah, and you are the only one here who has ever used a knife to cut anything.

Vassili is a character. It's easy to dismiss his cockamamie conspiracy theories, but like his progenitor Cliff Stamp, if you dismiss everything he says out of hand, you may risk missing a nugget of truth. Certainly his mantra that he's the only person on the planet who actually engages in legitimate edge testing gets wearisome, but I'd like to believe that his opinions are at least based on some amount of actual testing. My recommendation therefor is to count his opinion as simply one of the many that are available here. Don't let the intentionally provocative and easily refutable claims get under your collar.

 

[xtestifyx]

Is that an excuse Spydusse? If so, that's just a distraction from the truth that he hasn't been trying to learn.

I know of people who can spell and write better than that in only a few years of learning.

 

[spydusse]

bueno para ellos. El español es el idioma más hablado en la Florida. Right?

 

[stwesterner]

CTS-XHP beats both CPM M4 and CPM S90V. This is American ZDP-189.

Thanks, Vassili.

Do not accept this statement it is 100% false, outrageous (laughs)...

 

[spydusse]

I don't like when people put words in my mouth either. I never said I liked anyones test results more then another or anything of the sort. I respect vassilis test aswell as ankersons test aswell as my own real world use and I draw conclusion from the combination of all . To sit here and say using test results from years ago of d2 and saying its where xhp woukd preform is not very scientific.I am sure if a slight ht differental can change the preformance of a steel greatly I am positive a slight change in composition can change tthe preformance even more

 

[singularity35]

What's that saying about building castles in the sky and living in them?

 

[spydusse]

I also never remember claiming xhp or any steel the best . Can someone please show me where I said that !? I said its leaps better then s30 in my use wich it is! I never remeber forcing my opionons on anyone either . The op asked for feedback on a knife . I gave him my opinoin . I told him the steels I used ,what knives they were in and the uses I use them for . My results of these blades come from extensive use at the plant nursery I work at were my knives spend more time out of pocket then in . If anyone is trying to force views it is not me , nor have I ever discredited anyones test results or real world use of their blades . So please tell me how am I the one forcing views.

 

[spydusse]

Wow like talking to a wall. I've said my results come from real world use not scientific and are opinions I formulated. I said if yhou want to be scientific and use latrobes tests of d2 you can not say that's exactly how xhp would preform. Anyways hope you enjoy your new manix , I know you will .I bid adieu to this thread.

 

[The Mastiff]

Wow like talking to a wall.

That's kind of what I was thinking

I've said my results come from real world use not scientific and are opinions I formulated. I said if yhou want to be scientific and use latrobes tests of d2 you can not say that's exactly how xhp would preform.

I never stated that's how anything would perform. I just pointed out what the metallurgists that design these things have to say about where these things fit in relation to each other. Apparently that went over your head like a lot of other things. I do seem to recall you calling someone crazy and a liar for stating that S30V has as much wear resistance as XHP. You must really formulate some really great opinions to be so sure of yourself. Typically when people are that sure of themselves it's because they don't know enough to see how little they really know. That's the opinion I've formulated from my "real world experience".

Anyways hope you enjoy your new manix, I know you will

,

Who are you talking to now? My Manix isn't new. They have been around a while now. I got mine when they first came out.

I bid adieu to this thread.

See ya round the campfire kid.

Joe

 

[JNewell]

I also never remember claiming xhp or any steel the best . Can someone please show me where I said that !? I said its leaps better then s30 in my use wich it is! I never remeber forcing my opionons on anyone either . The op asked for feedback on a knife . I gave him my opinoin . I told him the steels I used ,what knives they were in and the uses I use them for . My results of these blades come from extensive use at the plant nursery I work at were my knives spend more time out of pocket then in . If anyone is trying to force views it is not me , nor have I ever discredited anyones test results or real world use of their blades . So please tell me how am I the one forcing views.

Pretty odd post, considering you posted this earlier (below).

I honestly have to think that if someone says xhp holds and edge similar to s30 they are lying and have never used xhp. That or I got the cream of the crop, best ever , touched bye an angel xhp manix 2 that ever rolled of the spyderco factory line. I , like many I'm sure have a ton of blades in s30 from multiple companies so I know aall of them can't be a bad batch of S30

 

[spydusse]

saying it holds an edge better then s30 means I am saying its the best . Was that your round about way of saying s30 is the best steel ,you better be carefull cause there will be a mastiff coming after you now.

 

[nozh2002]

Ah No, just no.......

It's a good steel, but it's not that good.

We will see what happens if Carpenter can ever produce it in quantities that the knife companies can use for a production model, same goes for 204P and 20CP.

A steel could be the best steel in the world, but if they can't make it or get it in sheets so the companies can use it what good is it, that goes for any steel.

Sofar all they have is air, and it's hard to make blades out of air.

Call Carpenter yourself and tell them you need 2,000 pounds of CTS-XHP in .160" and see what happens, that won't be a good phone call because they don't have it.

Thomas explained this to you more than once.

Ah, but why you bring drama here? Ah...

Again, my opinion is based on my tests which I trust, you opinion is based on what you read here. The fact that you randomly cut some rope tricking yourself to get "results" which just support what you was told here with "flexible" testing procedure, mean nothing to me. My intention to save myself money, not to get popular among "experts" here who just supports each other steel fantasies. I am looking also for someone else independent tests, I even mistake you for one initially, but once I noticed that you are doing rather test show for "experts" here do not interested any more.

One more time CTS-XHP show best test results among American production steels and European. Only ZDP 189 and Dozier D2 shows better results.

Thomas did not explain me anything - one thing he sad once - that he heart something that it was not available sometimes. I am not artistic person having my our show, so this did not became for me "explanation" as well it was only one brief remark, I am not capable of imagine this to "more then once".

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[The Mastiff]

Jim has always stated that his testing isn't perfect. You are the only one here trying to portray yourself as some kind of expert.

I suppose that's the biggest reason he is asked questions, offered new knives to test faster than he can complete the tests etc.

You, well, You know the story about that. You are laughed at, not taken seriously and held up as an example of how not to act, or to make conclusions from your testing. The fact that you test a very small sample of knives, yet claim testing of steel seems to be obvious to everybody except you. You have had it explained by scientists, mathematicians, engineers, metallurgists, and yes knife makers over the years. You still claim only you know how to do things correctly despite all the suggestions and information offered.

Only you, and very new people who don't know better take you seriously. You have been laughed out of, or banned from how many forums now? Was everybody but you wrong all those times too?

In your tests the same steel can be both best and worst. You make judgments on steels using one knife from one manufacturer at times. Oh yeah, there's the twisting and misrepresenting of others statements, such as the $2 a lb. S30V. In addition is a pathological tendency to assign conspiracy theories to various people and companies you haven't ever met, and know nothing about. Then, an attempt to use one simple bit of trivia taken out of context to use as evidence ( the CATRA results you have tried using lately for example) in your conspiracy theories.

And you accuse Jim of bringing drama.

Wow. What a guy!

For decades to come, long after you're history here people will be saying " alright, don't pull a Vassili" , or "quit vassilying the thread".

Congratulations. You have created a legacy.

 

[Ankerson]

Jim has always stated that his testing isn't perfect. You are the only one here trying to portray yourself as some kind of expert.

I suppose that's the biggest reason he is asked questions, offered new knives to test faster than he can complete the tests etc.

You, well, You know the story about that. You are laughed at, not taken seriously and held up as an example of how not to act, or to make conclusions from your testing. The fact that you test a very small sample of knives, yet claim testing of steel seems to be obvious to everybody except you. You have had it explained by scientists, mathematicians, engineers, metallurgists, and yes knife makers over the years. You still claim only you know how to do things correctly despite all the suggestions and information offered.

Only you, and very new people who don't know better take you seriously. You have been laughed out of, or banned from how many forums now? Was everybody but you wrong all those times too?

In your tests the same steel can be both best and worst. You make judgments on steels using one knife from one manufacturer at times. Oh yeah, there's the twisting and misrepresenting of others statements, such as the $2 a lb. S30V. In addition is a pathological tendency to assign conspiracy theories to various people and companies you haven't ever met, and know nothing about. Then, an attempt to use one simple bit of trivia taken out of context to use as evidence ( the CATRA results you have tried using lately for example) in your conspiracy theories.

And you accuse Jim of bringing drama.

Wow. What a guy!

For decades to come, long after you're history here people will be saying " alright, don't pull a Vassili" , or "quit vassilying the thread".

Congratulations. You have created a legacy.

Thanks Joe, and you are correct, I always say that my testing isn't perfect because I know it's not.

 

[nozh2002]

I did hear something in the recent past about the lack of availability with XHP, it was from Carpenter. They confirmed it, and weren't sure when it would be available in quantity. Additionally I had dinner with Scott Devanna over the last 2 weeks and he confirmed it as well. Scott (Specialty Metals) is about as in the know as there is when it comes the steel.

We'll see what the future brings with XHP, but as of today...see above.

Also I agree with Joe on the $2 lb S30V. Umm...never seen it close to that price, unfortunately.

Well, this is second time Thomas saying something about CTS-XHP and this time it is more close to "explanation".
So now we may say that it was "more ten once"...

Artistic nature of "experts" here, unfortunately make them say things which are not quite match reality. Like in this case
one single casual remark turns into "explanation" and "more then once". Similar or even greater drift happen with their
steel when they came up with theories and even "tests" which prove their power of imagination.

And let me add this quote in regards to $2/lb. So you may see I am not imagining this...

CPMS90V and CPMS60V were developed for the plastics industry - to be used where the developement of new plastics created more abrasive and corrosive environments. 154CM was developed for the aerospace industry - bearings. CPMS30V was developed specifically for knives - hunters and folders. CPM154(partical metallurgy version of 154CM) was produced specifically for the knife industry - a more user friendly knife steel(more user friendly than CPMS30V) for the custom knife makers. CPMS30V displaced/replaced CPMS60V because it was new, it performed well and we were stupid enough to price it $2.00/lb. lower than CPMS60V, ultimately killing a great grade -CPMS60V.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[pwet]

rotfl

vassily the "." after lb doesn't end the phrase ... it just says that it was priced 2$ cheaper than s60v. there's a "." after lb. because there's supposed to be a "." after shortened words ...

 

[The Mastiff]

You just proved what I said Vassili. It was priced at it's introduction $2 per lb. less than S60V. I knew you were wrong from the first time you said it but like so many things just telling you doesn't cause you to believe or retain information. I'm glad you looked it up yourself so hopefully you will believe it now and stop going around including the $2 per pound in your conspiracy theories.

If you occasionally price steel and buy it like I do you could have figured out by yourself the $2 per pound didn't sound right for a steel with such costly elements in it. Moly, Tungsten, and Vanadium are expensive additions. Too expensive to just put in a steel for a "conspiracy" like the one you thought up.

You don't really tend to think things through though. This conspiracy of yours is an example. If you thought it through and possibly researched some things it wouldn't have made sense any more and you could have saved yourself some embarrassment. Instead, you only seem to select, hear and retain bits and pieces here and there that fit in with your preconceived theories, which then somehow become facts in your mind. Your own version of a Confirmation Bias.

Other examples are because S30V was introduced after S60V was already on the market you continue to affirm that S30V was S60V's inferior replacement and weave your own strange conspiracy theory around that fact. You have been informed time after time that S90V was the replacement for S60V yet despite having the information you continue to run with your conspiracy theory leading up to how you are the only one who has discovered and know the truth.

That kind of roundabout thinking and circular argument is all to familiar to me from having dealt with mental health patients in the prison system. No, I'm not stating you are a mental health patient or anywhere in the system but your line of thinking is all too transparent and predictable as no matter what comes up new you just don't let go of that world where you are on top with either followers or enemies. Not much else in that world.

That's $250 per 50 minute session BTW.