True Survival Knife HELP???

[Thonders]

Not as much as you think. In the situation you described, you need a knife to:

1. Break down wood
2. Start a fire (I'm assuming you know how to make a bow drill and how to make strong enough cordage with nothing but a knife...)
3. Find water? How?
4. Set traps or make tools to attain food (again, given that you know how to make strong enough cordage out of yuca/bark/grass/etc.)

Non-knife solutions:

1. Set the wood against a rock or stump so that the section you want to break is off the ground. Throw a rock onto it or break it with your foot. If your smart you'd just find the right size wood to start with
2. Shoulda brought a flint and steel. That or you could easily find the pieces to make a bow drill; scrape them on rocks to shape them. Get cordage using the same method you would have. (Use a sharp fragment of a rock instead of a blade.)
3. While you're looking for the right size wood for a fire (see 1), look for water also. How does a knife help you find water?
4. Most traps don't need much if any cutting of branches. Set a snare using the cordage you made in step 2 and a springy limb.

See? I would happily trade a knife for a fire steel or a water filter in a survival situation. Better yet: Be prepared, and have the right gear from the get go, and don't need to "survive."

Again, i have what equipment you listed and a whole lot more. The Knife was backup. Also, Im confused. If you can do all that without a knife, then how can having a knife, simply giving you even more options be useless? In survival options are good. I dont want to argue. We should be friends. I get that a large group of people are fixed up on the end all meets all master knife. Im aware (as stated) of its lack of existence. Hence my survival kits(s) for different uses. You seem to have me confused. I dont want to argue. Its was a simple (yet high requirement) question. I should not be hated and flamed for my inquisition. It was not if you could have any 1 tool, it was "if you can have any 1 knife".

 

[cricketdave]

So don't argue and discuss what you like or dislike about the knives mentioned to you. Ask for further suggestions discuss different steels.

 

[spydercobenchmadekai]

If you think you're being flamed, you should look at some of the real wars over in W&C or the Cove. (Need a paying membership for the later.)

All I did was show how a knife is not essential to survival, and that other pieces of equipment might be a lot more important.

 

[R.c.s]

I will put one in the mix . What about the british army jungle knife tried and tested ?

 

[Thonders]

AT CRICKETDAVE

Your right. I made myself and other survivalists look bad.

AND SPYDERCOBEN

I apologize, I have had a bad day and let a bit of it out on you. I took it a little personal. The point you were trying to make is valid. I took it a bit personal as i was already aware of this, and tried making it clear that I already had equipment. I was not saying a knife is the most important, or that I would try to survive with only a knife. Simply that a knife was were my inquisition was directed. I am not the greatest in creating a image with words, and can see how I may have been confusing.

 

[Thonders]

I will put one in the mix . What about the british army jungle knife tried and tested ?

Hmm interesting. Not to big on carbon steel for rust issues, but im looking into how to maintain one without store bought materials.

 

[cricketdave]

Most will take a patina and use will keep rust off, so add in becker knives, esee knives especially added with their sheath systems. To my thoughts the sheath is almost as important as the knife, gives you extra storage and if its not comfortable to carry it won't be on your belt when you actually need it.

 

[R.c.s]

It dose have a good long lasting coat on it . But only you can know whats best for you .

 

[Thonders]

Most will take a patina and use will keep rust off, so add in becker knives, esee knives especially added with their sheath systems. To my thoughts the sheath is almost as important as the knife, gives you extra storage and if its not comfortable to carry it won't be on your belt when you actually need it.

I have little experience with carbon steel knives, as Ive been raised from a young age in stainless steels. My first knife was 440c. Im curious as to carbon maintenance. Ive done some reading and it would seem that use can keep rust off. My question for you is how far does this go? If i drop it in salt water will allowing it to dry and regular use keep the rust off for years without any store bought materials? What about multiple drops? I know its pushing it, but I already have knives for normal use. Im looking for one that goes the extra mile in terms of lifespan, and versatility.

 

[cricketdave]

Depending on the knife yes, esee has a coating that is under the scales as well. Just dry it off and go on. I'm pretty sure beckers are coated under the scales as well. Both are 1095 with good heat treats, just depends on what feels better in your hand. I've used both a bunch with no problems at all. The newer stainless steels will hold a much better edge than 440c, really no comparison to the newer steels. I'm fond of s30v, s35vn and elmax all of those are more time consuming to sharpen but hold an edge much much longer than 440c.

It also depends on just how much you want to spend, 60 to 150 bucks, 150 to 300, 300 to 500 or higher.

Honestly I rate the knives I've mentioned like this,
becker
esee
scrapyard
swamprat
busse
then whatever custom floats your boat.

Take a look at some of the dedicated forums for busse or swamprat or the becker forum, the archived esee forum and the custom forums. Also the great outdoors forum.

 

[cricketdave]

You should also realize that stainless steels are a relatively new thing, folks have used and survived for a thousand years using carbon steels. Just think of pirates for the last 500 years or so, constant exposure to salt water.

 

[R.c.s]

You should also realize that stainless steels are a relatively new thing, folks have used and survived for a thousand years using carbon steels. Just think of pirates for the last 500 years or so, constant exposure to salt water.

thats right . And most machetes are carbon steel and are used all around the world and by tribesmen that can't get hold of oils . But have been used for 100s of years

 

[RUNIT]

Your right. I made myself and other survivalists look bad.

What is a survivalist? Since we are all still alive are we all survivalists?

Check out Entrek Knives if you want stainless.

 

[Thonders]

You should also realize that stainless steels are a relatively new thing, folks have used and survived for a thousand years using carbon steels. Just think of pirates for the last 500 years or so, constant exposure to salt water.

Thats a good point.

Lol and i didnt mean 440c was good, I was like 8 when i was given it as my "toy" knife. Mostly just sharpened sticks to create quote un quote "spears in case a bear attacks", which usually ended up being used for marsh mellows. : )

Ya i was thinking vg10 over s30v mainly just for sharpening reasons. Ive been fixated on some of the beckers for awhile now. Turned off mainly due to carbon steel. But what you said seems to be good information about rust. Ive actually wanted carbon and only turned away due to rust issues. If simple use and basic outdoor cleaning can prevent rust for the "long term" then im pretty much sold. Id love to get a BK9, among others.

You are quite helpful dave. I appreciate it. If price wasnt a consideration, would you still rank becker #1? If so which models are your personal preference?
Keeping in mind long term (in years) survival, with no store materials to sharpen and maintain. I live in a humid environment and so survival would be most likely in a humid environment.

 

[knifeguy101]

Carbon is also way easier to sharpen on a rock than stainless is...

 

[Thonders]

What is a survivalist? Since we are all still alive are we all survivalists?

Check out Entrek Knives if you want stainless.

---------------- Inserting letters to meet minimum requirement to post reply.

 

[cricketdave]

Well I actually rated from lowest preference to highest, top being lowest bottom being highest. Of the beckers i like the bk7 the most its a good all around size. I didn't care much for the bk9 I had, no particular reason just better blades in that size in my safe. The esee Junglas being a better fit for my hand in particular and a Busse chopper being an even better fit and having much better edge holding.

There isn't anything wrong with carbon at all, simple cleaning even with dirt in the field will keep in in fine shape and it is easier to sharpen in the field on a rock. As for vg10 vs s30v ect well I personally prefer s35vn over both, just a bit tougher in use for me. Nothing wrong with any of them though and properly heat treated pretty much any can be great. I honestly prefer a custom at this point in life, I can get exactly what I want that way.

Entrek and Fehrman and Survive knives all have great reputations as well but I haven't personally used them. I like chris reeves fixed blades too and have had no problems with them either. They are more combat oriented though.

 

[A Justice]

Well I actually rated from lowest preference to highest, top being lowest bottom being highest.

lol I was wondering what that list was all about. A custom would have been far ahead my first choice, and Busse would have outranked all the others listed.... although there are several other brands that make very good survival knives.

 

[Thonders]

Ahh. So busse still holds top. So many choices. It was alot easier building my kit. Different knifes for different jobs. Its going to take some time for this piece.
Im leaning more towards carbon now though, as I originally figured it best for this knife, with the rust being the only thing holding it back. Now that thats out of the way I can continue my search. Thanks a bunch for your time dave.

 

[cricketdave]

Anytime feel free to ask more questions as you read up on various knives. Yeah Busse and then custom are defiantly the higher quality for me at least. Swamprat and scrapyard offer more affordable models and are excellent as well. Also keep in mine the sheath, custom sheaths are the way to go unless you get an Esee and then you defiantly want the molle back and pouch, and they work great for a number of other knives with kydex sheaths as well. Lots of custom leather available too. Even a small altoids tin can expand the possibilities by a large margin and can be attached to the sheath in a number of ways.

this for instance adds a multi tool, small flashlight, compass, string, fire steel, matches, esee arrowhead for frog gigging or traps, basic antibiotic and pain relief, and a signal mirror. Add a aloksak for water and a few purification tabs or learn to make a bark bowl for boiling water and your good to go. I always look to heat and shelter first everything else is comfort or food driven.