Two 1095 questions for experts

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Marine E7

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Oct 19, 2012
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#1 : I have read 100s posts / threads / vids of experts that say 1095 is best for large knives /choppers. Reason being that 1095 is always tougher then any stainless/semi stainless.( often say retention is better also)
However, in charts like this : http://www.relentlessknives.com/AA2011News/Enews0511/Relentless_Knives_Steel_chart.jpg 1095 is both BAD retention and toughness VS many semi modern steel. Must be 20+modern stainless that test better( on charts)heck, low budget Aus8 on charts seems better

So where does this 1095 mumbo jumbo come from, how it is so much tougher? Perhaps this is info from years zero till the 70's or 80s...pre super steel era?Just old info? Old timers not aware of new stuff?
On paper, 3v seems 100x better then 1095 in every way.


#2 : I looked for a week,no luck: Has Anyone ever tested back to back 1095 VS Crovan (Ka-bar) on the same size/shape knife to see if it tests any different?
retention/toughness,resists
Similar grind and all that, apples to apples....or close enough to not matter.

Some Ka-bar fan-people rave on and on ( posts and videos) how crovan is soooooo much better.
My testing shows it about the same.
 
Heat treatment is everything - 1095 is not universally well-done and different manufacturers and makers will heat treat them to their own specifications which will bring out different qualities in the steel. 1095 is inferior to most particle metallurgy steels (Elmax, CPM154, M390 / 204P / 20CV, 3V, 4V) in basically every way but cost. The cost difference, however, does not reflect a 1:1 increase in performance, so 1095 is a perfectly reasonable steel to use given that comparable or superior alternatives will be disproportionately costly.

That's as much as I can weigh in on this, however.
 
"On paper" does not always equal real world results.

Ever notice? "Super Steels" come and go, yet 1055, 1075, 1095, 440a, 420hc, and other "obsolete" steels just keep going, and going, and going?
 
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afishhunter said:
"On paper" does not always equal real world results.

Ever notice? "Super Steels" come and go, yet 1055, 1075, 1095, 440a, 420hc, and other "obsolete" steels just keep going, and going, and going?
Click to expand...

"Super steels" that come and go generally do so for a reason, not because they're part of some kind of fad that fizzles out - mostly due to cost, availability, reformulation, etc. Elmax, S30V, S35VN, 3V, CPM154, Vanadis 4, M390 / 204P / 20CV, CPM-D2, etc are still going strong and become more common with each passing year.
 
Hey aren't you the pretend marine scout sniper who got called out on being a faker? The question was rhetorical as your being called out is documented here at bladeforums. Disgraceful.
 
I'm not an expert, just a long time knife aficionado.

I take along to the deep back country, a ten year old Ontario Rat 3.5 inch fixed blade. Great knife design, holds a strong, sharp edge.

I carry the carbon steel because I can easily ReSharpen the blade on a smooth rock, when out a long way from home, without having to carry an extra sharpening stone.

YMMV. There's something to say about a well manufactured carbon steel knife!
 
Pretend ,No. Somebody trolling me, yes.
Should know facts before you say somthing like that.
Shocked MODS let u post this.

Not sure how any of that relates to my post.
Stay on topic?
 
shinyedges said:
Hey aren't you the pretend marine scout sniper who got called out on being a faker? The question was rhetorical as your being called out is documented here at bladeforums. Disgraceful.
Click to expand...

This type of behavior will not be tolerated in the discussion forums anymore. We've simply had enough. Knock a legit thread off track and you will be dinged. Continue on and you'll be banned.
 
10-4. Nothing I said was a lie.
Morrow said:
This type of behavior will not be tolerated in the discussion forums anymore. We've simply had enough. Knock a legit thread off track and you will be dinged. Continue on and you'll be banned.
Click to expand...
 
Look up AISI 1095 and you'll read it characterized as a "brittle steel", as in "not tough". But virtually any carbon steel is going to be tougher than most stainless steels (AEB-L being the most obvious exception). Higher carbon steels are brittle because they form cemetite carbides that make the steel less uniform (grain), while making it harder. You can gain toughness by either lowering the carbon to get rid of carbides, or you add alloys that make the carbides form more uniformly (vanadium, chrome, etc).

So your toughest steels are going to be 1080, 1060, 1050 for simple steels, S7, 5160, 80CrV2, L6 for medium carbon steels, and 52100, A2 for high carbon steels. But most any alloyed carbon steel will be tougher than 1095 at the same hardness because of the carbide issue.

1095 is very strong, and most 1095 choppers are relying as much on strength and geometry to keep from breaking. Other steels could be made with finer edges, or wear longer while being tougher.


So 1095 is not tough, but it can be made to work and it is inexpensive for making a big knife out of. 1080 would be a better inexpensive choice, but 1080 isn't spoken of with as much reverence. 1095 sells.
 
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When people state the term toughness, expectations are different among knife fans. My personal measure of toughness is how well a properly heat treated steel holds up against some hard abuse that most people never really expose their knives to. Throwing a knife at a concrete wall, chopping into cinder blocks, cutting into other steel objects (Busse), extreme flexing of a knife locked in a vice, beating on the knife blade such as batoning, or chopping into hard wood trees. I normally would not attempt anything extreme with my knives, but it sure is comforting to know that a knife can stand up to serious abuse. An appropriate heat treat also contributes to toughness. 1055 to 1095 steel when heat treated to an optimum hardness can stand up to serious abuse and seem virtually indestructible. However, better edge retention usually means a higher hardness which can mean less tough sometimes. 1095 is a good balance of high enough carbon content for good edge retention and toughness. It is hard to find anything stainless that will outperform the toughness of 1095 for the same price point. The recent taiwan based production of cold steel 3V steel knives challenges this price point concept in my mind, but I still do not quite believe that just because a knife is made of 3V and no assurance of an outstanding heat treat that it will stand up to abuse as well as a 1095 steel knife with a well known heat treat reputation.
 
On my Work Sharp belt system I find all steels easy to sharpen /maintain.
3v or 1095 take about the same time.
My M390 (Bradford) adds maybe 10-15 more seconds.

On a short OP or normal hike/camp I would rather not have to sharpen at all a super steel then constantly touch up 1095.

Maybe most people mean easier to sharpen on a stone or arm device.


On these charts, 3V seems to have INSANE toughness.I wonder at some point, if this extra tough is overkill.
As in: it could be 1/2 as tough and never roll or chip out on me in normal use.I could use a steel that trades that over-toughness for more retention or less cost.
A sweet spot must exist. Where resist,tough and retention intersect.Best "bang for the buck" if you will
 
For me, as far as work gear goes : I want to buy a tool once.I want the highest quality with-in reason.
When your life depends on it, you cant have a tool dulling quickly,rusting and the dreaded rolling and constant chipping.

The theme here seems to be price.So 1095 is not magic....it is just cheep.
Meaning 1095 is NOT tougher then say S30v, just cost less.
Well, that I get.

I think if ALL knife steels cost the same, nobody would ever use 1095 for anything.

As for Cold Steel, I had a strange issue with mine.CS rep said this is VERY rare and odd. I sent it back for review/repair/replacement.
No info back yet.
Outside of the strange "side chipping" ( from another thread) it is legit real 3v for sure.
I used it hard and the apex never chipped or rolled. Was very impressed.
Tip never broke and I used as a pry bar in many a log.

Still wanting a 3v Kukri or hatchet. Using a Fox Pathfinder with wierd NITRO-B for now.
 
The Work Sharp with the blade grinder attachment has made the wear resistance benefits of higher-end steels kinda irrelevant for me as well. I can slap a mirror edge on something in the span of about five minutes, from sawing-at-tape dull.

Although I did completely burn the edge of my 4116 Cold Steel Bowie Spike. Not much of a loss, but still kind of an expensive lesson.

Nathan the Machinist is very well known on these boards for making 3V choppers of incredible quality. They are not cheap, but they will last you, your children, their children, and their children their entire lives.
 
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