Ultralight backpacking?

[pinnah]

Given the weather here due to mountain terrain and elevation, it'd be hard to stay comfortable without a cold-weather sleeping bag. I can skip the tent as long as it doesn't rain though.

In like fashion, in New England mountains (especially the Whites) rain gear and some warm clothing is always needed. Add to this the extra bulk/weight that comes being well over 6' tall and wearing XL clothing.

Ultra-light gear is really expensive, especially considering the gear I already have is free to use.

It's the same with cycling components. With cycling, I made up spreadsheet and tracked component options on a gram and $ basis and, no kidding, calculated the gram/$ ratios of the various options. (If I were on CIS, I would be McGee) When you add into this the issue of durability, I'd rather stick with some older, well proven and durable things than toss/replace stuff. My Svea 123 is in this category. I have an old TNF pack purchased in '84 and used multiple times a year ever since. Yes, I've rebuilt parts of it, but it still works great.

My knife weighs 0.8 oz, and I rarely use even that. There just aren't many things in the natural outdoors that need cutting. It would be a different story if I was a hunter, or if winter camping (forget that!).

I lived and worked, hiking and backpacking, outdoors for many years (ten years staff at Philmont, twelve years as a professional archaeologist) and I've never encountered any cutting task outdoors that an Opinel couldn't accomplish easily.

Ditto on the Opinel. For winter ski tours (where fires are possible), folding saw and larger fixed blade are nice but really a luxury item, not a must have.

Dead wood is usually abundant; fire restrictions preclude campfires much of the year; and the best fires (easiest for cooking, easiest to no-trace when finished) are built with thin sticks that are easily broken by hand.

I would like to hear more on this. Do you use a twig stove? If so, what kind?

I know it's "impact elsewhere" not "no impact" but I still primarily rely on my stoves (Svea 123 or Trangia 25). A big part of this is the massive rates of traffic that we see in the Whites combined with the very limited places to roll out a sleeping bag. Most of our hiking terrain is very rough forest and once you get above the hardwoods into the boreal, forget about it. As a result, most camping ends up being localized at established (or quasi-established) camp sites. And with localized impact, wood over-harvesting can be a major issue.

 

[Bob W]

I would like to hear more on this. Do you use a twig stove? If so, what kind?

Never used a twig stove, but I've seen them and am impressed.

If I'm just out for an overnight, I don't need to start a fire or cook anything. On longer trips I carry a white gas stove for cooking, and sometimes have a fire for 'atmosphere'.

As a result, most camping ends up being localized at established (or quasi-established) camp sites. And with localized impact, wood over-harvesting can be a major issue.

Absolutely. Around here though there aren't many backpackers, especially if you're not on an advertised trail. Even so, if you follow basic outdoor etiquette and camp out of sight from trails or roads, you aren't likely to camp in the same spot as anyone else.

By keeping the fire small, burning the wood to white ash, and not building fire rings, I can keep any spot pretty much impact-free to the point that someone casually wandering through a day later won't notice I've been there. After all, there are 300 Million of us, and a finite amount of wilderness that we all have to share. :thumbup:

 

[Bob W]

Anything less than 80 pounds of gear is good with me.

I'd be curious how many miles you make each day, and at what elevation you hike?

A few years back I did the Ozark Highlands Trail in the early spring. Freezing temperatures, rain and sleet, and an actual deadline with a pick-up at the midpoint. With the full tent, winter clothes, wool blanket, and 11 lbs of food the pack still weighed in at 'only' 65 lbs. The first day I made a lousy four miles!!! But by the end of the week I was racking in a more respectable 15-17 miles per day. Just took a little getting used to. Plus, I ate the heavy food first.

That being said, the Philmont Conservation Staff routinely hike with 80 lbs or more when considering their tools and supplies. And that's over 12,000' mountains, steep rocky canyons, and long all-day hikes. Just takes a little getting used to.

 

[pinnah]

Yikes!

I think those sorts of pack weights are possible for the young and habituated. Like AMC trail croos. Or young guides.

People with all of their cartiledge and disks intact.

 

[Bob W]

Yikes!

I think those sorts of pack weights are possible for the young and habituated. Like AMC trail croos. Or young guides.

People with all of their cartiledge and disks intact.

Tell me about it. When the gout is happening I'm lucky to make it 20 ft without stopping for a break. And the knees (some medi-technical term for "worn out"). And the plantar fasciitis... And I'm only 43.

My days of carrying steel braided bear cables from Abreu to The Crags or completing the Ranger Marathon (~40+ miles in 24 hours) (for those familiar with Philmont) in full frame pack are probably behind me.

 

[ThriftyJoe]

......

 

[oguruma]

I think the weight that a person carries on their back for a weekend a month is far less of a risk to one's well-being than the excessive amount of weight the average american carries around their mid-section all year-round....

 

[Bob W]

I think the weight that a person carries on their back for a weekend a month is far less of a risk to one's well-being than the excessive amount of weight the average american carries around their mid-section all year-round....

And how!

I can even sleep on a thin foam pad pretty well.

Maybe I'll try sleeping on a pad some day to see what it feels like. I've never used one; the ground is good enough for me, even if a bit lumpy sometimes.

 

[ROCK6]

Great thread!

My base weight is actually more for my summer shelter which is a Warbonnet Hammock and an Arrowhead fly. I can go lighter with the Tarptent Notch (26oz), but prefer the hammock. I’ve been using a Sea-to-Summit MicroMcIII which is a nice designed down bag that can be zipped open like a quilt (right at 24oz), but my Kifaru Woobie is about 20oz. My preferred sleeping pad is an Exped UL7 which comes in a 16oz, but works well on the ground or in the hammock.

Newest pack is an Osprey Atmos 65-liter @ 57oz. For shorter trips, I’m really eying the Osprey Exos 46-liter. The Atmos is for a longer trip this spring on the AT. It’s a heavier pack, but I can go 6-7 days right at 29-30 pounds for total pack weight.

I’m comfortable with 40-45 pounds, but I must admit like Owen, that I can literally wear a 30 pound pack all day hiking, scrambling and just about any other hiking activity. This spring my wife is doing a 180 mile section hike on the AT and I’ll get to only do about 50 miles. We have been able to comfortably go 12-15 miles a day on moderate trail conditions and still be able to enjoy the hike.

Since we really don’t get too many multi-day backpacking trips, I’m really considering a light pack like the Osprey Exos; I’m just too spoiled with Opsrey’s suspension and airflow to do anything less.

We’re doing a 7-8 mile hike tomorrow so hopefully I’ll get some pictures of the set up. Even with what I’m packing I know I could go a little lighter, but I’m not trying too hard. I am packing a Gerber collapsible saw and Mora 510…debating on need but it’s for my new stove set up. It’s not necessarily light weight as a system, but I’m just going to toy with it and see how it works: Snowpeak 900 (Four Dog’s modifications), Bushbuddy .006 gasification stove and an Evernew titanium alcohol stove (just packing 8fl ounces for now). I like the versatility and more importantly the Bushbuddy concept which work very well and get a pot of water boiling quite fast. I’m not a big alcohol stove guy, but double duty of using inside the Bushbuddy for rainy weather seems like a nice idea…

I’m no ultra-light hiker but I have a big appreciation for the benefits of going lighter; you can go further, faster and less prone to injury. I’ve done my share of 80-100 pound backpacks; they serve their purpose when you need them, but I much prefer a lighter load these days. When I was younger and we did our first few backpacking trips as a family, I was packing for four...never again! My wife now is completely self-sufficient (and probably in better shape than me) and both kids are older and have their own set-ups…I can now just focus on minimizing what I need but still maintaining a quality level of comfort.

We do two types of backpacking. Either a ‘pack-in and set up camp to enjoy a weekend type of backpacking’ or a linear or circular type of backpacking for more distance. We enjoy both and both have a different purposes, but if you’re doing distance, lighter is a no-brainer!

ROCK6

 

[sideways]

Those woodgas stoves are very interesting. I've been considering adding one to the toolkit but am having a hard time narrowing down where I want to be on the mobility/firepower curve. They range from a DIY can setup to the heavyweight ones like the biolite (935 grams) which can power USB devices. That could be handy since if I can keep my smartphone powered that means I can save weight on other stuff. It has Maps, GPS, a light, an ebook reader, camera, music, notepad and tracker, not to mention the primary functionality.

 

[Cougar Allen]

A 30 pound pack feels negligibly different than a 40 pound pack.

Not to me. Not after carrying it for hours. YMMV.

 

[Bob W]

Not to me. Not after carrying it for hours. YMMV.

I'd swear that on long trips, after a while, I become so in-tune with the pack that I can tell when some of the toothpaste gets used. Could be my imagination though.

 

[ROCK6]

I'd swear that on long trips, after a while, I become so in-tune with the pack that I can tell when some of the toothpaste gets used. Could be my imagination though.

That’s a good case of psychological enlightenment

ROCK6

 

[Distelfink]

I have been into lightweight backpacking for a few years now and it has been a steady progression.....
Working out what works and what doesn't in our unpredictable UK climate. It certainly allows me to explore further, higher and for longer without resupplying. Disappearing in to Knoydart in Scotland's Western Highlands for 5 days with a 33 litre and 99g backpack is liberating

Gear that works well for me :
Gossamer Gear Whisper Pack 99g 33 litres in spinnaker.
Gossamer Gear Spinshelter 291g spinnaker shelter or a Z packs Hexamid at 264g for a cuben tent with full midge netting.
Nunatak Arc Edge 345g Down quilt
Nightlite torso pad 104 g with a full length Thinlite at 50g underneath.

Even lighter is a cuben tarp and bivy I made - details HERE at 90g and 110g respectively.

My dog Murphy carries his own stuff too....

Congratulations on your excellent choices for a very effective system. Kudos on your DIY Cuben tarp and bivy. Excellent craftsmanship!

 

[Shotgun]

Yes. Seriously. I can tolerate having a few extra pounds in the interest of making my trip more enjoyable. I generally carry more food than I really need because I like to eat. I generally carry a book because I like to read. I have been in the army for over a decade. Anything less than 80 pounds of gear is good with me.

I don't care what you can carry bud. I'm just tired of the name calling.

 

[Satyr]

Enjoying this thread, and appreciate the knife suggestions. The Fällkniven are very cool but hard for me to justify the cost over equally useful alternatives. I should say that my previous standard backpacking knife was a SAK Climber, although lately I have carried a Gerber LST with a SAK Classic in my first aid kit. The LST has proved to be all I really need, but am always curious about alternatives.

I own numerous stoves and found myself evolving from white gas (SVEA, Whisperlight. a few others) to canister (Primus, Optimus), to alcohol. Last summer I carried a Trangia for a 5 day hike in Denali, but recently bought a Fissure Ti-Tri Cauldera Cone. It is pretty cool, extremely light, and allows wood burning in a pinch.

I lately use an Osprey Aether 70 pack which is extremely comfortable for heavier loads, and can easily accommodate a bear canister which is required in many areas I hike. I also own an Exos 58, but find it less well balanced and uncomfortable for the loads I need to carry.

Regarding bear spray, I have only carried it when grizzly bear encounters are likely. A hiker was killed and partially eaten one week after I left Denali. I have no concerns with black bears.

Cheers,
Satyr

 

[ROCK6]

Enjoying this thread, and appreciate the knife suggestions. The Fällkniven are very cool but hard for me to justify the cost over equally useful alternatives. I should say that my previous standard backpacking knife was a SAK Climber, although lately I have carried a Gerber LST with a SAK Classic in my first aid kit. The LST has proved to be all I really need, but am always curious about alternatives.

I lately use an Osprey Aether 70 pack which is extremely comfortable for heavier loads, and can easily accommodate a bear canister which is required in many areas I hike. I also own an Exos 58, but find it less well balanced and uncomfortable for the loads I need to carry.

Satyr

I struggle with the necessity of a knife or at least a large one when backpacking. I know it’s sacrilegious to say that on a knife forum, but honestly, for the planning, trail, already packing your shelter and you have fire starting equipment for your stove, it’s hard to justify the need of anything very large. I will admit, I will pack the weight of a fixed blade just because it’s a force of habit, but a Gerber LST, Fallkniven U2 or even a smaller SAK is really about all that’s needed for trail backpacking. The more important aspects if survival was a necessity are already with you…clothes, shelter, water and fire. I don’t discount the necessity of a fixed blade knife, but really think it’s an area to cut weight if you needed to…that will probably be a never ending debate for ultra-light backpacker who loves knives.

I’m interested in your Exos 58 experience as it’s a pack I’m considering down the road. Again, I understand the limitation is not capacity but weight and if you exceed the recommended weight, comfort is out the door. My son wants an Aether pack and my wife and I are both Osprey users. I know you could cut a couple pounds on your pack, but I also know the how miserable you can be if that pack isn’t designed for the weight. I would like to get into the 20-25 pound range for shorter backpacking trips (2-3 days)…

ROCK6

 

[OwenM]

ROCK6, what's your torso size? If it's not over 20", my Medium might fit you(mine is19.5" if I measure right). I won't need more than the 46 for at least 4 months, so you could try it out for the summer.
You'll know pretty quick if the Exos series will work for you or not, though, because there's no adjustment, and very little padding to disguise any fit issues. Some people say the frame digs into them, somehow, and there's no padding or framesheet behind the suspended mesh back, so you have to watch how you pack hard objects like a cook kit, so they don't shift around poke you.
Probably either love it or hate it. That's how the reviews tend to go...

 

[MAURICE]

I I ditched the heavy 1L nalgenes and went with some recycled 1L smart water bottles.

I am about to try the same thing. My Sawyer squeeze fits right onto the 1.25 liter coke bottles. I normally carry the 1.5L Nalgenes, plus I wont have to fiddle around with the collapsable bags. They work fine when you have a current to help fill them, but on a still body of water it gets to be a pain. Plus the Cokes are a buck, cheaper than buying a 1L Dasani.

 

[OwenM]

Seems like the Squeeze would be really hard to use without a collapsible bag(?).
I love the Squeeze. I use a small funnel and a 500mL water bottle with the top cut off(Sawyer and funnel fit inside it when not in use) to fill the Evernew that I use on the dirty water side. Don't even have to get my fingers wet when it's cold, if careful about it.
A 1.5L Evernew makes filling a 1L Platypus extra easy, because you don't have to roll it down and squeeze.
I find a rock or a log, and just sit there for a couple of minutes(maybe eat some banana chips!), and my Platy is full