Ultralight backpacking?

Reading these weights reminds me of my first 50 miler, years ago while I was in scouts. Lol my pack weighted 83 lbs fully loaded :eek: Since then, the amount of crap I bring is much less but I certainly wouldn't consider myself an ultralight or even light weight backpacker. I give props to you folks that have it down to so much of a science that you can walk out the door in under 25 lbs.
 
ROCK6, what's your torso size? If it's not over 20", my Medium might fit you(mine is19.5" if I measure right). I won't need more than the 46 for at least 4 months, so you could try it out for the summer.
You'll know pretty quick if the Exos series will work for you or not, though, because there's no adjustment, and very little padding to disguise any fit issues. Some people say the frame digs into them, somehow, and there's no padding or framesheet behind the suspended mesh back, so you have to watch how you pack hard objects like a cook kit, so they don't shift around poke you.
Probably either love it or hate it. That's how the reviews tend to go...

Yeah, I wear the Medium. My wife's cousin is bringing his Exos 46 this weekend for a family camping trip down in Dothan, AL...I'll get a chance to try it out. I'll let you know as I'll be using the larger Atmos for the next few months; I appreciate the offer.

ROCK6
 
Seems like the Squeeze would be really hard to use without a collapsible bag(?).
I love the Squeeze. I use a small funnel and a 500mL water bottle with the top cut off(Sawyer and funnel fit inside it when not in use) to fill the Evernew that I use on the dirty water side. Don't even have to get my fingers wet when it's cold, if careful about it.
A 1.5L Evernew makes filling a 1L Platypus extra easy, because you don't have to roll it down and squeeze.
I find a rock or a log, and just sit there for a couple of minutes(maybe eat some banana chips!), and my Platy is full :)
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It may not work as well as I would like it to. I am going to hopefully try it out this weekend. I will report back. If not, I like the 1.5l evernew bag. The plastic bottle will fill easily, but may not be as effective when it comes time to squeeze. One thing is for sure, I love the filter. 3 ounces, no hoses to mess with, takes up almost no room in my bag. Just awesome.
 
Nice thread everyone! Alot of useful info here! :D

I am planning on backpacking this year with the wife ( I hope) and this is my first time doing so for many, many years! Mainly, I figure just a day hike to start with but then I would like to do a couple day ones. We are planning on riding our bikes alot this year and want to pack a backpack failry light but with the necessities needed to be comfortable cause if not the wife wont go!

Anyway, great thread and I have bookmarked it for many more re-reads and so I can follow the talk. Thanks!
 
I've steadily made the transition to ultralight backpacking over the past couple of years. I believe it's the natural progression the more time one spends outside on and off trails. Do enough mileage, and you just sort of end up there, even if it wasn't your conscious intent. I believe no one enjoys carrying more than he needs to, and, given the choice and means, he would go with the lighter alternative if he ascertained for himself that the lighter gear or improvisation would not compromise ultimate effectiveness in the given task. I think folks vary in their evaluation of effectiveness, and that's where much of the disagreement arises.

Being a knife guy and subscriber to the preparedness mindset, the UL philosophy sometimes seems to clash. But in nearly all cases it comes down to consideration of probability, not just mere possibility. The UL approach is inherently one of selection and tailoring. Take what you are likely to use and need - leave what is redundant or unnecessary. Like many other things in life, ultralight backpacking requires thoughtful selection of the proper tools and the discarding of the superfluous. And the determination of what is superfluous is entirely personal and task/situation-dependent. If you like making fires and bushcrafting when out, then the gear you deem necessary for it is just that for you: necessary. Forget arbitrary weights if you don't find it a useful metric, just look at it this way: Could I accomplish the same tasks and enjoy my trip even more by carrying less weight? Simple as that. If you don't think you could possibly enjoy your trip any more by going lighter, then you're fine!

I will admit that for many hardcore UL guys, the load lightening process becomes a Traveling Salesman problem. It's just a fun puzzle, aside from the more practical aspects. Regardless, the process is at its heart practical; you will cover more ground, or equivalent ground more easily, and with greater enjoyment if your muscles have less mass to move against gravity. This makes sense logically to me, and I've confirmed it empirically with dirt time.

Now, should you decide you can drop some weight, I think going about weight reduction methodically is beneficial for both your time and wallet.

1) Drop unnecessary fat mass. Maximize your lean mass, and work on your strength and endurance if you need to. Gear weight is irrelevant when one is carrying a high body fat percentage.

2) When that's accomplished or well in progress, critically evaluate your gear with an eye for elimination only. Look at your gear and consider the systems you've been using to accomplish tasks needed for your activities; cull the redundant and unnecessary. Consider probability given your typical activities, as well as possibility. Simplify and reduce to your minimal level for comfort and safety.

3) Only then, within your means, replace gear if you are confident the lighter replacement will accomplish the same task with equal or better effectiveness and efficiency, and if you're wiling to accept any compromise (e.g. durability, cost).

4) This isn't necessarily last, but occurs throughout: get out there. Your own experience, and to a lesser extent that of others, will inform your decisions. Figure out what works for you, what you're comfortable with, what level of risk you're willing to accept.

I don't know what my body fat is now, but 5-10% has always been my goal, and it'll be a lifelong WIP to maintain. My pack base weight now for UL trips is under 9lbs. I don't remember what my UL SkinOut is for a 3-season Bay Area overnighter or weekender is, I'll have to check my spreadsheet when I get home today, but it's under 20lbs for sure. I don't know that i'll ever want to get down to SUL or XUL levels, but I'll probably end up trying at some point just for the hell of it. But in general, if I won't be fastpacking for mileage or going light for the sake of going light or simple aesthetic austerity, my 3-season without bear canister pack base weight hovers between 10-12lbs. There are things I prefer, whose weight doesn't raise my overall weight enough to detract from my enjoyment. For example: sure I could get by and possibly be even safer by using chlorine dioxide to treat water, but I hate the taste and prefer to bring my Sawyer Squeeze.


ETA: And, since we're on Bladeforums, for backpacking cutlery, I've been taking a Fallkniven WM1. Based purely on what I actually need to use on a typical backpacking trip, when I'm carrying all my gear and everything goes right: nothing. Even for fire making, if you're in a wooded enough area you can just break off small deadwood, rough up dried grass with rocks, etc. Food: everything is either pre-cut or packages are perforated for easy opening. The only food prep I ever do on my backpacking trips is maybe cutting salami and cheese. Other than that, I'm a quick and easy boil water and add to dehydrated food kinda backpacker. I hate cleaning dishes when out, especially if it's a dry camp. And if you get a dehydrator, you can make whatever you want and make it taste good.

The cutlery I've used or carried on backpacking trips in the past and now:
Derma-Safe Folding Utility Knife (razor)
Spyderco PE Ladybug
SAK Classic
SAK Hiker
Swiss Bianco Bushcrafter
SAK alox Farmer
SAK alox custom Syph007 build
Leatherman Micra
Leatherman Style CS
Mora Clipper and Companion
NWA Sierra Scout
Fallkniven F1
Fallkniven WM1
Silky Super Accel 210

Knives I will give a try at some point:
BRKT Ultra-Lite Bushcrafter
BRKT Liten Bror
Mora FireKnife
Maybe my Opinel #8, but if I prefer fixed once I get beyond SAK size.

My typical cutlery loadout now is the Fallkniven WM1, Syph007 custom SAK, and Leatherman Style CS for the scissors. I definitely want to try the BRKT Ultra-Lite Bushcrafter. Sometimes I think about dropping the Leatherman since it's rare I use scissors. And for those rare situations, I should be able to get by with a knife and a flat spot of wood or something if I need to cut leukotape.
 
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Oh yeah, and as ThriftyJoe said on page 1, get a scale. Getting a scale makes all the difference, because once you start being methodical and virtually compartmentalizing your gear, it becomes easier to evaluate.
 
I've steadily made the transition to ultralight backpacking over the past couple of years. I believe it's the natural progression the more time one spends outside on and off trails. Do enough mileage, and you just sort of end up there, even if it wasn't your conscious intent. I believe no one enjoys carrying more than he needs to, and, given the choice and means, he would go with the lighter alternative if he ascertained for himself that the lighter gear or improvisation would not compromise ultimate effectiveness in the given task. I think folks vary in their evaluation of effectiveness, and that's where much of the disagreement arises.

... The UL approach is inherently one of selection and tailoring. Take what you are likely to use and need - leave what is redundant or unnecessary. Like many other things in life, ultralight backpacking requires thoughtful selection of the proper tools and the discarding of the superfluous.

Some really good point I think :thumbup:

Eliminating gear that you don't need in order to reduce your pack weight just seems like common sense to me. Now, some things you might consider a small "luxury" and it's worth the weight to you, but overall why would you want to carry a pack that's heavier than it needs to be?

My base-weight for a 5 day trip is about 22 lbs., with water and food about 35 lbs. Not sure what that's considered, not UL I'm sure, lightweight? Not really important to me. I don't count my clothes, boots, anything in my pocket just because I don't care that much.

I agree some UL people seem like they enjoy reducing their base-weight more than they enjoy being outdoors. Dropping big dollars to save a few ounces, cutting the tags off all their gears, etc... It seems silly to me, but it's no skin off my back so who cares right?
 
[...]It seems silly to me, but it's no skin off my back so who cares right?

Indeed :thumbup: Ultimately, if you're enjoying what you do, carry what you want. HYOH :thumbup:

[...]
Ways to cut your pack weight, cheap!: [...]


Good tips :thumbup: Particularly looking at the cost/unit weight value. That helps a great deal when considering what to replace next, if you're looking to replace gear.

Some random other low cost ones, in no real order, I'll throw out just to help:

1) I don't have one yet but will soon: a dehydrator will save you money in the long run.

2) Bring only enough clothing that you could wear all at the same time. Quick drying synthetic may stink, but it can be relatively inexpensive and very much functional. Use a sleep system that includes your clothing. If you're cold at night and your bag or quilt isn't cutting it, put on or drape over you your insulating layers and rain gear (any clothing you brought that you weren't wearing already).

3) Ditto on trail runners and light socks vs. heavy boots and socks. Work up to it so you don't get injured.

4) Ditch heavy nalgenes and the like for already-optimized HDPE water bottles (I prefer 1L smart water bottles for size and shape).

5) Ditch stuff sacks, use a garbage bag pack liner for waterproofing against rain, just stuff your sleeping bag and insulation in your pack, fill the pack with your gear and your insulation will only get compressed as much as is necessary - a pack with filled volume tends to carry weight better.

6) Everyone should try tarping at least once. Figure out if you like it, and if not, what lightweight shelter designs would work for you in your environment.

7) Focus on multi-use. I cut a basin out of the bottom of a milk jug. Lightweight HDPE, tough, stands on its own, and serves as: water scoop, sponge bath basin, laundry basin, bowl. A 1 gallon heavy duty ziploc makes a great washing machine too (short trips, just don't wash clothing). You could even just use your cook pot for all this. I don't because I nest stuff in it (pop can stove, etc) and don't want to unpack stuff for water fillups, but I could deal with the inconvenience if absolute lightness was the goal. Bandana's are incredibly multi-use, as is a little duct tape.

8) If you don't need to cook or boil, don't.

9) Pay attention to weather and conditions, tailor your gear to cover probable situations.

10) Other good books: "Beyond Backpacking" Ray Jardine, "Lighten Up!: A Complete Handbook for Light and Ultralight Backpacking" Don Ladigin, "Ultralight Backpackin' Tips: 153 Amazing & Inexp​ensive Tips for Extremely Lightweight Camping" Mike Clelland.

11) There's a good bit of inexpensive lightweight stuff out there. Pop can stoves can be made if you're willing to put in the effort. Plastic painter's drop cloths, "HomeWrap" Tyvek from construction sites (can be had for free with a polite question), and window heat shrink wrap (otherwise known as polycryo) can all make for good groundsheets. If you can and want to sew, you can make a whole bunch of stuff inexpensively that will also be light.



Nice thread :thumbup:
 
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One thing is for sure, I love the filter. 3 ounces, no hoses to mess with, takes up almost no room in my bag. Just awesome.
Yeah, check it out. I didn't need to carry water today because I was crossing or following drainages and creeks, so I just took the filter and the Evernew bag, and drank straight from the filter.
Show you what I meant about the funnel and the cut off bottle(which makes filling that collapsible bottle really simple and weighs <1oz).
dscn9924v.jpg
 
The only bone I have to pick with the Squeeze is keeping the dirty end from dribbling over the clean end. I mean, I shake it out, and push air through it and all, but I'm still paranoid and use a ziploc over the clean end with a rubberband.

I used to use a Hiker Pro for filtering, hated it. The Squeeze is SO much easier, with a smaller pore size to boot.

8346_584201151599305_183815049_n_zps48cf6a77.jpg
 
I've steadily made the transition to ultralight backpacking over the past couple of years. I believe it's the natural progression the more time one spends outside on and off trails. Do enough mileage, and you just sort of end up there, even if it wasn't your conscious intent. I believe no one enjoys carrying more than he needs to, and, given the choice and means, he would go with the lighter alternative if he ascertained for himself that the lighter gear or improvisation would not compromise ultimate effectiveness in the given task. I think folks vary in their evaluation of effectiveness, and that's where much of the disagreement arises.Being a knife guy and subscriber to the preparedness mindset, the UL philosophy sometimes seems to clash. But in nearly all cases it comes down to consideration of probability, not just mere possibility. The UL approach is inherently one of selection and tailoring. Take what you are likely to use and need - leave what is redundant or unnecessary. Like many other things in life, ultralight backpacking requires thoughtful selection of the proper tools and the discarding of the superfluous. And the determination of what is superfluous is entirely personal and task/situation-dependent. If you like making fires and bushcrafting when out, then the gear you deem necessary for it is just that for you: necessary. Forget arbitrary weights if you don't find it a useful metric, just look at it this way: Could I accomplish the same tasks and enjoy my trip even more by carrying less weight? Simple as that. If you don't think you could possibly enjoy your trip any more by going lighter, then you're fine!I will admit that for many hardcore UL guys, the load lightening process becomes a Traveling Salesman problem. It's just a fun puzzle, aside from the more practical aspects. Regardless, the process is at its heart practical; you will cover more ground, or equivalent ground more easily, and with greater enjoyment if your muscles have less mass to move against gravity. This makes sense logically to me, and I've confirmed it empirically with dirt time.Now, should you decide you can drop some weight, I think going about weight reduction methodically is beneficial for both your time and wallet.1) Drop unnecessary fat mass. Maximize your lean mass, and work on your strength and endurance if you need to. Gear weight is irrelevant when one is carrying a high body fat percentage.2) When that's accomplished or well in progress, critically evaluate your gear with an eye for elimination only. Look at your gear and consider the systems you've been using to accomplish tasks needed for your activities; cull the redundant and unnecessary. Consider probability given your typical activities, as well as possibility. Simplify and reduce to your minimal level for comfort and safety.3) Only then, within your means, replace gear if you are confident the lighter replacement will accomplish the same task with equal or better effectiveness and efficiency, and if you're wiling to accept any compromise (e.g. durability, cost).4) This isn't necessarily last, but occurs throughout: get out there. Your own experience, and to a lesser extent that of others, will inform your decisions. Figure out what works for you, what you're comfortable with, what level of risk you're willing to accept.I don't know what my body fat is now, but 5-10% has always been my goal, and it'll be a lifelong WIP to maintain. My pack base weight now for UL trips is under 9lbs. I don't remember what my UL SkinOut is for a 3-season Bay Area overnighter or weekender is, I'll have to check my spreadsheet when I get home today, but it's under 20lbs for sure. I don't know that i'll ever want to get down to SUL or XUL levels, but I'll probably end up trying at some point just for the hell of it. But in general, if I won't be fastpacking for mileage or going light for the sake of going light or simple aesthetic austerity, my 3-season without bear canister pack base weight hovers between 10-12lbs. There are things I prefer, whose weight doesn't raise my overall weight enough to detract from my enjoyment. For example: sure I could get by and possibly be even safer by using chlorine dioxide to treat water, but I hate the taste and prefer to bring my Sawyer Squeeze.ETA: And, since we're on Bladeforums, for backpacking cutlery, I've been taking a Fallkniven WM1. Based purely on what I actually need to use on a typical backpacking trip, when I'm carrying all my gear and everything goes right: nothing. Even for fire making, if you're in a wooded enough area you can just break off small deadwood, rough up dried grass with rocks, etc. Food: everything is either pre-cut or packages are perforated for easy opening. The only food prep I ever do on my backpacking trips is maybe cutting salami and cheese. Other than that, I'm a quick and easy boil water and add to dehydrated food kinda backpacker. I hate cleaning dishes when out, especially if it's a dry camp. And if you get a dehydrator, you can make whatever you want and make it taste good.The cutlery I've used or carried on backpacking trips in the past and now:Derma-Safe Folding Utility Knife (razor)Spyderco PE LadybugSAK ClassicSAK HikerSwiss Bianco BushcrafterSAK alox FarmerSAK alox custom Syph007 buildLeatherman MicraLeatherman Style CSMora Clipper and CompanionNWA Sierra ScoutFallkniven F1Fallkniven WM1Silky Super Accel 210Knives I will give a try at some point:BRKT Ultra-Lite BushcrafterBRKT Liten BrorMora FireKnifeMaybe my Opinel #8, but if I prefer fixed once I get beyond SAK size. My typical cutlery loadout now is the Fallkniven WM1, Syph007 custom SAK, and Leatherman Style CS for the scissors. I definitely want to try the BRKT Ultra-Lite Bushcrafter. Sometimes I think about dropping the Leatherman since it's rare I use scissors. And for those rare situations, I should be able to get by with a knife and a flat spot of wood or something if I need to cut leukotape.
rAmen.
 
There are some good suggestions above from people who sound like they've got a few miles in.

One of the first things I tell people is that what works for me might not work for you, but I'll make suggestions if they are interested.

HikingMano sounds like he knows what he's doing. My only suggestion to him would be to maybe consider replacing the garbage bag inside his pack. I used one for years and would have to replace it every month or two which can be a pain on a long walk. I started using a trash compactor bag of the same size and it's still going strong after several thousand miles. They are pretty much bomb proof and I doubt there's much if any difference in weight.

The last two long walks I was on I carried a Buck Paradigm Pro and mostly only used it for spreading peanut butter. It's sure a cool knife when you get used to using it. :)
 
BTII, Amused :)

Hey, Stumps :) I've actually been using a Cuben Pack liner these days, but I was just adding to ThriftyJoe's tips for going light for cheap. :thumbup: And yeah, I should have specified to go with the thicker stuff like compactor bags and barrel liners, and not a plain jane kitchen garbage bag -- you're spot on :thumbup:
 
Spot on, Joe. Excellent, sound advice. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Those grease pots are supposed to be great. I keep meaning to pick one up.
 
Yeah, for dedicated camping, that would a good way to do it. That demonstration was more for using what I have on a day hike to overnight if forced or spur of the moment. I think silnylon is more fragile than the heavy duty PU-coated ponchos, but you won't lose water resistance over time and of course it weighs less -- tradeoffs.

I like enclosed netting inners if not full on tents because of the ticks here. Chances are that you'll pick the ticks up when hiking, when they're waiting to hitch a ride and meal hanging off the ends of low-lying brush, but I like to stake odds in my favor if lying down in leaf litter for the night too. Can never be too careful to avoid Lyme disease. Bug netting would be fine for flying stuff, as long as you hold it off your face so skeeters don't bite right through. The rest of your body should be fine once you get in your bag. And if you're putzing around camp before bed, wear your rain gear and a bug net hood to keep them at bay.

One thing to note is when going from a fully enclosed, practically weatherproof, tent (if strong enough and pitched right) is you need to practice using a tarp before trying to go at it with a 6x8 poly tarp. A 6x8 tarp, to be weatherproof, will require a tight pitch that won't afford much room. Getting in in wet weather will be dirty and annoying with a low pitch. A lot of folks will pitch small tarps high, fine for gentle falling rain, but it does squat for wind driven rain. And if it's cold and windy, a tight pitch well help cut wind/drafts if you're just spending the night in a bag under a tarp. I personally prefer an 8x10 tarp for all around weather use, but while doable in silnylon, it's cumbersome and heavy as a standard polypro tarp.

One tip for clothing: Driducks for rain gear. Inexpensive, and effective. Not as durable as other stuff, like a fancy eVent or something, but just fine if you're sticking to trails and not bushwacking or scrambling. The pants in particular are more prone to getting shredded. If you aren't expecting to have to move in rain, then a cheap $1 coghlans or similar emergency poncho will do the job.

Another pad tip I can add: what may also help some folks sleeping on thin CCF is to clear your site, lay your pad down, lie on it and figure out where your hips will be, then scoop out a shallow depression there if you can. If you're a back sleeper, giving your hips/backbone area a little room may add to your comfort. Also, get off compacted well-trafficked campsite ground if possible. Untrodden duff and the like is often softer. I definitely agree on the no-worrying-about-puncture deal. It's one big reason I like foam pads. Also, use your pack under your legs to complete insulation with a 3/4 length or torso sized pad. The leg drop gap is less when using thin CCF, but it could still be an annoyance for some people, and using your pack under your legs will help you keep warmer.

Joe, if you were inclined to do the work, I think you could do a solid "Thrifty's suggestions for light AND inexpensive backpacking" thread. It'd be a great resource for folks just getting started and offer good food for thought to folks looking to cut weight. There are tons of tips out there, I mean, folks have written books on it, but it'd be a nice primer and launch pad for BF folks. :thumbup:
 
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