Underdogizhere Got Me Good!

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Timmer,
Did you guys agree to a 2 or 3 day inspection/turn around time? I neve make a deal unless that is agreed on. We need to hear the other side of the story, too.

Bottom line folks: Always insist on an inspection period.
 
i thought that the action was a little loose..i e-maild him and he IGNORED my e-mails..never answered....i searched the forums about the knife and found no negatives so, i figured that was the way the knife came..the knife was too hard to operate for a lefty
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Sounds like the knife was NOT in good shape to begin with. IMO if this information was not told to the buyer then he rightfully expected the knife to be in better shape and would be entitled to a full refund. The buyer needs to be more direct in what he wants you to do. Does he want his money or does he want it repaired? It sounds like you're willing to do either, you just need to know which.

I think the seller in this case would be obligated to do one of the above. Pay for getting it fixed or give the buyer his money back.

My opinion.
 
Yep, I was going to say the same thing. Whatever happened to the inspection period? :(
 
You know what I think happens sometimes?

The difference the beginners eye or beginners mind makes. (This particular case seems rather unsubtle, so it probably doesn't apply here, but might in those "It wasn't like that when I sent it." problems)

That is that once you've owned something for a while, the perception of it in your mind is an accumulation over time. You over look the nick there or scratch here. You mind says "There's nothing wrong with it." in you perception there might not be.

Then someone new comes along and they see it with fresh eyes, and they see all the stuff the previous owner missed or forgot about.

The thoughtful seller, in my opinion, should recognize this, and always grant the 3 day inspection period.

FWIW.
 
In my opinion there should not have to be an agreed upon 2 or 3 day inspection period. It should just be an excepted part of any deal done. I have run into far to many people that say that since there was no prior agreement to an inspection period that they did not think that they should have to refund the money or cancel a trade. These are people that I will personally not deal with and I say thank you to those that report about this happening.
 
timmer,

If you hang around here long enough, and I hope you do, you will see that most all BF members are "Men of Honor" and will reverse a trade or return funds WITHOUT having to resort to putting it in writing that there is an inspection period.
Only lately have I been seeing GB&U posters saying that this is a requirement. It never was in the past, it was just understood that if both parties were not happy there was no deal.
Thats the difference between the pursuit of a hobby and the pursuit of a buck.
BTW, Welcome to the forums.
recoil:)
 
T

timmer

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Hey Guys,
I've thought about this since last Monday and have decided to go ahead. Not sure how this will go over since I'm new here and Underdogizhere has some history but here it goes anyway. I bought a Buck Strider/Valloton D/A conversion from him last week that was advertised as 99% with the only prob being some plier marring on the thumbstud. When I received the knife it had the following problems:

Thumstud marred as advertised but also remounted for a left hander and mounting screw stripped out.

Blade completely off center and rubs on liner.

Liner lock does not fully engage when fired in auto mode causing major blade play.

Last but not least I fired the knife once and the kicker spring came loose from it's mounting pin. To fire it again I had to push the spring back under the retaining pin with a pair of tweezers.

So I email The Dog and he tells me that the knife wasn't like that when he sent it and that I must have not read the enclosed directions and done something to the knife by firing it wrong. Major BS

We email back and forth and he finally tells me to send it back to Valloton and he'll pay to have it repaired but that he wouldn't return my money cause it's still a mystery as to what happened to the knife. He tells me that he got the knife from Darkman fired it once and sold it to me. "NEWSFLASH" Darkman emailed me to ask how I liked the knife and when I told him the story he freaked. He told me that the knife wasn't set up with a lefty thumstud or any other problems when he sent it to Underdogizhere. Darkman's a really GOOD GUY and even offered to try to repair it or send it back to Butch V. for me. It's obvious to me now that UDog is totally dishonest and although I realize that he has some good posts from others, I can't trust him. I've decided to take care of the repair with Valloton myself as I want no further dealings with Udog. Sorry this post is so long but I felt that I should explain the whole deal to avoid any misunderstanding. Bottom line...The condition of the knife was misrepresented and obviously someone disassembled the knife and screwed it up. That person then pawned it off on an unsuspecting sucker......ME.

Timmer
 
No we didn't agree to an inspection period. Like an idiot I didn't ask and you could be sure he didn't offer. I simply spotted a knife that I wanted, promptly went into a stupor and inquired where to send my money. I'm aware that I made a BIG mistake and it was trusting someone to have the same level of honesty that I have. Bottom line is he was dishonest about the condition of the knife and anyone that's acted the way he has wouldn't have honored the inspection period either. He lied about the condition of the knife.

Timmer
 
Yeah Guys,
You can bet that I'll never do another deal without an inspection period. Underdogizhere gave me a lesson that I won't soon forget.

His side of the story will be simple....It wasn't in that condition when he sent it. I have nothing to gain by lying as at this point I wouldn't even deal with him in any way. I'll simply send the knife back to Butch for repair and sell or trade it when it returns. I don't want to own anything with this type of bad feelings attatched to it but I do feel that everyone needs to know that this guy isn't always the stand up guy he wants everyone to think he is.

Timmer
 
I think you hit the nail on the head KWM and Thank You! Although I acted like a beginner for not requesting the inspection period, I'm actually not. New to the Bladeforums and buying/trading over the net but not to knife collecting and trading in general. I guess I've just read too many posts about people doing the correct thing without being policed that I was naive enough to think that Underdogizhere would not be interested in doing anything underhanded in front of the very people he does knife trades with on a regular basis. Since I'm the new guy here I didn't want to question someone's integrity. Boy did this guy give me a lesson. By the way though he had to be very aware of the quality of the knife that he pawned off on me. I spoke with the guy who traded it to him.
Dog had the knife for a very short time and that must have been when he reversed and stripped out the thumbstud. The whole action of the knife is screwed up. We're not talking a hairline scuff on a bolster.

Timmer
 
well said Dave H. I think more than anything I just needed to warn any other newcomers here to be aware that most of the guys here seem to be Men of Honor but beware the few that are not. Interestingly enough, when I complained to Underdogizhere AKA Jerry Roberts, he couldn't wait to tell me that he was a police officer as if that absolved him and put him above reproach. Thanks guys for helping to talk me through this. He also threatened legal action if I slandered him. Is that lame or what. He cheats me and then threatens me with legal action if I say anything. By the way I've had a private email from someone else on here that read my post and said that the dog did the same thing to him about a year ago when he was new to the forums.
Evidentally he saves his scams for the new guys.

Timmer
 
Posted by underdogizhere:

i pay to post on here. . .
Click to expand...

Not trying to step on anyones toes here. . .

But, subscribing to a Gold Membership. . ."will allow you to attach images to your posts, use private messaging, post polls in any thread you start, and sell items in the Exchange section."

Nothing more.

This is a typical "he said ~ he said" dispute. And no one wins. In cases like this. . .there are plenty of upstanding folks here that would mediate the issue(s) to resolution ~ that way both parties win !

Have you 2 looked into that option ?

Personally, I don't feel that threads should be deleted. . . The merits of the thread generally tells a good portion of the story.
 
As far as I'm concernd you have an obligation in any trade or selling tobe up front about the condition of the merchandise.This whole barter idea is setup on the honour system.If the piece you are sellig or trading is not 100% you owe it to the other party to let them know that.Yes timmer should have asked about the condition but I have made that same mistake myself,haven't I Jerry.As far as deleting threads go that's just BS.
 
Jerry admits that he lied in his 1st response but yet expects everyone to believe everything he says from this point on. My sole purpose from the start of this thread was to forwarn other formites about Jerry Roberts lack of integrity and abundance of dishonesty. I never said that I didn't want to return his broken $300 knife because as he puts it "I liked it too much". This guy must think everyone here is an idiot to believe such a lame statement. Isn't that why a liar lies because he thinks he's smarter than everyone else so therefore they'll believe him. Glockman, I only posted here to warn others and I feel that removing the thread would be a great disservice to other newcomers here. If you're interested I'll be more than happy to forward the entire email thread between Jerry and I when I was trying to resolve the issue before bringing it here. Jerry told me that returning the knife was not an option and I did say that I didn't trust him enough to send it back to him anyway. Burnt once, shame on him......Burnt twice, shame on me. Due to the positive response of a lot of the other people on here, I'll be subscribing for a Gold Membership on here, but don't worry, I won't abuse the privledge as JERRY ROBERTS AKA UNDERDOGIZHERE has.

Timmer
 
REcently some individuals come here to defend themselves after shady deals by essentially saying, "I sent it in good condition, and my obligation ends there. He didn't ask for inspection period, he didn't ask for money back, so tough."
If you are man of integrity, you "step to the plate" and do everything within reason to make deal good. If buyer is dissatisfied, especially "Newbie" then you should offer to accept back the knife or refund money, EVEN IF BUYER MAKES NO MENTION OF IT. Especially newbie might not ask because he doesn't want to come off looking rude.
If cost of shipping is worth more than your good name, then your name is not very good, is it?

Regards,

Martin Jastrom
 
Underdogizhere, you've been around here long enough to know we don't delete posts from TGB&U. We won't delete your posts and we won't delete timmer's either.

Timmer, it's not clear to me how you think this should be resolved. Do you want to return the knife and get your money back? Or are you satisfied with underdogizhere paying for the repairs but wanted to let everybody know what happened? Or what?
 
Jerry,
My main complaint, or as you would call it "My Bitch" is this...
I was expecting to buy a knife that was 99% as you advertised it. Your offer to pay to have it fixed is moot as Butch Valloton will probably repair it for free. I wasn't expecting the knife to arrive in the condition that it did and certainly wasn't expecting to have to send it off for repair upon receiving it. You stated that I probably disassembled it or damaged it in some way. That's B.S.! I don't even attempt to disasemble any of my knives with the exception being, my Emerson's. Especially not an aoutomatic. I think you did the damage when you attempted to convert it to a lefty and when you couldn't make it right you simply pawned it off on someone else. If the action appeared loose, why did you choose to keep it quiet? I think its starting to become very clear who's telling the truth and who's scrambling. Nifrand, Thanks for the suggestion, Nifrand, but I really think that I want no further dealings with Underdogizhere AKA Jerry Roberts. I'll send the knife back to Butch V. for repair at my own cost and resell the knife for exactly what I paid for it when it returns. I only wanted to warn others about THE DOG. If Jerry had originally offered to take the knife back I would have accepted and at least been able to have a little respect for the guy even if he did misrepresent the condition of the knife. I choose not to have any further dealings with him now. As a very Wise Man once said.."The more you wrestle with a ****....The more Dookie you get on you". Thanks for the lesson Jerry!

Timmer
 
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