Unworthy of a Mastersmith

Originally posted by wolfmann601
Wow, it's obvious which knife is the one in question, but why the solder?
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I am not totally sure about the weld/solder there but alot of guys will weld or hard solder a piece of all-thread or a bolt to the tang rather than thread the actual tang itself. Wayne Goddard shows this in his book. It works good if done correctly.

I once made a really nice blade that was going to have a stacked leather handle and when I was threading the tang, it twisted off. I had to cut the tang down a bit, notch it, then hard solder in a 1/4 X 20 steel bolt. It works well if the weld is done where there with be no potential flex.
 
Posted by Raj:

The flux was not cleaned out after the soldering. I have been told that the flux can be very corrosive.
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That is correct. Basically, fluxes are either non-corrosive, intermediate and corrosive.

Non-corrosive is typically used in electronic applications where you don't want or can't have a trace amount of acidic material in the component. It is also used in brass and copper applications (think plumber).

Intermediate is what is termed "mildly corrosive." It's used in applications where "non-corrosive flux" isn't strong enough. It can be used to solder steel but typically test welds need to be accomplished to ensure that it capable of doing the job it's required to do.

Corrosive flux. . .is exactly that. Very very corrosive !


I was always taught to wipe down and "thoroughly clean" the areas that came in contact with "any" flux - - just in case. ;)

Be glad that you found that when you did !



It's a shame about the other defects too ! :(

Personally. . .doesn't matter if the maker is "non-rated, a JS or a MS". . .if they're on the market selling their wares. . .the product that they produce should be 100% ! If I'm spending my hard earned frog skins. . .I want my frog skins worth.

I don't understand the theory that the knife is a month old so no refund. :confused: Unless there was a specific stipulation stating that there was a "specific return drop dead date." :confused:


I've met Mr. Bradshaw once. . .nice guy. . .beautiful knives (I don't have one).


I hope that everything works out for you Raj !
 
Raj,I know if that was my knife I would be very disappointed as well.I hope it works out in the end for you.
 
Wow Gary! Those pics you posted paint a pretty bleak picture and speak volumes!:eek:

RAJ - It's quite apparent that you received a knife of sub-standard quality, well below the quality expected from a Mastersmith. The maker should quickly and without question give you a full refund! It would be the right thing to do.

How such a great maker could have overlooked such obvious flaws and sent that to you is simply baffling! Equally baffling to me is the makers reluctance to agree to a refund after admitting to the flaws! One would think that a Mastersmith's reputation would be as important to them as is the quaility of their work.

I too am interested how the maker will respond to this. Good luck RAJ.

Frank:cool:
 
This is exactly why the GBU forum exits. This guy will catch wind of this and make it right. It is unfortunate that it has to come to this. I'll never buy a knife from this guy.
 
Is this a candid camera bit or what?

How could this have left his shop?
 
The photos ARE quite revealing. If these photos were sent to Bradshaw and he did not respond in a positive manner it truly shows bad form.

Stuart
 
To the gentleman who inquired about what is a takedown bowie. You may have a better idea about it after seeing the pictures. The thing really holding the handle to the blade is the knob which protrudes out behind the handle and screws on the inside, to some aspect of the tang of the blade. The stronger and better the engagement of the finial knob to the tang, the better the hold of the handle to the blade. The knife on top has the tang itself made into the threaded area for the finial knob to screw onto. And you can see by the size of the finial knob how good the engagement of the knob to the treaded end is. The knife by Mr. Bradshaw has such a small screw soldered onto the end of the tang and the small size and length of the finial knob allows just a few turns of engagement. This does not inspire me with confidence to put such a blade to hard use. The flux has not been cleaned out of the area where the screw was soldered to the end of the tang. And hidden as it is, who knows when the rust will put an end to any contact between tang and finial knob. Hillbillenigma, thanks for your response. You have touched upon a subject that has affected me.
Incidents like this are what can cool off or kill ones passion for knives. My passion to collect a knife from as many mastersmiths as possible has died out after this incident. I still like knives very much (don't we all). But in future I will stick with the mastersmiths(and knifemakers) I know, who will not let a badly made knife leave their shop or else will go all out to amend the problem their customer runs into.
Sincerely, Raj
 
Raj

Did you send these pictures to Bailey?? If so I can't understand him not correcting it, since he has a sterling reputation for doing just that!!!!

The weld on bolt is Brazed, Looks like Silver Braze which normally does not need a corrosive flux. Temp to braze of 1100 to 1175 degrees depending on who made the rod, direct pull strength in excess of 3 tons.
If the screw/bolt is a number 8-24 (and it looks to be some larger than that), the direct pull (SAE J429 spec) for grade 1 is 3750 lbs, grade 2 is 4625 lbs. 3 1/2 turns will run that size bolt all the way thru a standard nut, more than enough to take full advantage of the bolts strength.
It may not look as good as a Michael Connor take down,(bet you didn't pay a Connor price either) but the chance of a failure from this bolt is zilch.

The marks on the Recaso & Choil are an all together different story.


Lets see what Bailey has to say when he gets back from Reno.
 
While I have mentioned the defects to Mr. Bradshaw, I have not sent these pictures to him. Having made the knife and knows of it’s condition, it wasn’t necessary to do so. But I have sent these pictures and a few others to the ABS. I was told that they requested Mr. Bradshaw to settle things with me. They may have forwarded him the pictures, of that, I am not sure.

Hello Pete, good point regarding the strength of various threads but the size of the screw is #4-40 on the Bradshaw knife, which is quite small. The size of the screw or integral thread on the other knife is #10-24, it is hard to tell without a size reference in the image. I don't know what Connor charges for his bowie, but regardless of price, I would say a Connor bowie will not leave his shop in this condition. Also the other knife shown for comparison is not a Connor knife.
Sincerely, Raj.
 
I know Bailey Bradshaw very well and am proud to call him a personal friend.
He is also a member of one of the most prestigious groups of people in the knife industry, the American Bladesmith Society. He is also held in pretty high esteem in that organization,and has been honored by a couple of awards.
Bailey is also a human being, (with all of its frailty),husband and father.
Maybe when he was approached to give the refund to RAJ at a time when he was in a bit of a financial bind.We do not know the situation.Kids needing braces,car broke down,equipment needing fixing,ect.ect.ect.

Give the guy a break.He is in Reno with the ABS Show and will be home prob Mon or Tues.
Give him a chance to rectify the situation and I will bet my life he will, and to RAJ's satisfaction .
As far as the screw being too small.I don't think so.
I own 10 or so Bradshaw knives and love them all.If I need something fixed he would do it without question.He is that type of person.
He is also human.
Unworthy of being a Mastersmith?? Very harsh words.
Randy
 
Raj,

I’m unclear on a couple of points that I hope you can clarify.

1) It sounds from your original post that you were unhappy with the cosmetic appearance of the bowie right out of the box. When did you first let Bailey know you were disappointed with the knife?

2) Did you suggest returning it to him to have the cosmetic issues remedied at that point? If not, were you content to keep the knife as-is and did you communicate that to Bailey?

The reason I ask is that it seems to me that IF there was some initial communication the end result of which was an understanding that you would keep the knife, then it would hardly be unreasonable for the maker to assume it was OK to spend your money on, I dunno, paying the mortgage, feeding his kids or other such stuff.

3) How long after that did you communicate to Bailey that you had concerns about what you perceived to be potential deficiency in the structural integrity of the knife (i.e. the assembly of the finial knob and screw)? At that point did you offer or suggest that Bailey “fix” what you felt was wrong, or did you simply demand your money back?

Again, the reason I ask is that sometimes we can forget that for full time makers this is their living. You are talking about trying to revoke his paycheck a month after he’s cashed it. You make a good point that a maker should stand behind his work, but seem to suggest that the only way that can be done is by refund. Given the passage of time, I’m not sure that suggestion is entirely fair and that is why I’d like to get a better idea of the timing.

4) You clearly feel that the production of photographs was an important – even essential – element in making your case that you had been treated unfairly. In your very first post you bemoaned the fact that you were unable to produce photos due to problems with your membership. You had previously sent the photos to other members of the ABS, and obtained the assistance of others to post them here. It strikes me as more than passing strange that the only person you felt you did not need to send the photos to was Bailey Bradshaw. Your suggestion that he would have photographic recall of the exact internal and external condition of the knife seems, well, optimistic. As others have taken pains to point out, he's human like the rest of us. If he missed the untidiness in the choil area (which you suggest he acknowledges that he did) would a picture not be "worth a thousand words" in demonstrating to him the degree of his oversight?

Understand, Raj, that I ask these questions not to attack you or to suggest that there is no legitimacy to your grievance, but to try to flesh out facts. My grandmother always told me that there are two sides to EVERY story. You have posted your grievance at a time when the other party is unable to respond, and there seems to have been a fair bit of gratuitous piling-on as a result. It is not for me to decide the legitimacy of your claim, but for others to pass final judgement based on one side of the story offends my sense of fairness.

Sincerely,

Roger Pinnock

PS - Edited to add: Now I gotta go figure out what happened to MY gold membership. Do they let you know when these things expire, or do they automatically renew?
 
Raj, sorry to hear about the knife. I just wanted to say Bailey is a good man and he'll make sure you're happy. I hope everything works out for the both of you.

Matt
 
I'm going to politely suggest we all wait for Mr. Bradshaw's reply to Raj's concerns.

Those pictures do speak a thousand words, however, and I'm just as curious as the rest of you are on how Mr. Bradshaw is going to address those flaws.
 
Originally posted by RogerP
PS - Edited to add: Now I gotta go figure out what happened to MY gold membership. Do they let you know when these things expire, or do they automatically renew?
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Roger, your Gold Membership expired on Dec. 26th. No, Bladeforums does not inform you when your Membership expires. They do however put an expiry date in your profile. Not in the profile you can edit, but in the one that appears when you click on your name or the profile button at the bottom of one of your posts.
 
I love Baileys work, and recently picked up 2 of his knives, mine are very near flawless, so im surprised he'd let your knife out of the shop, the question is, will he fix the issues to your satisfaction, if he does, great, if not, he needs a lesson in customer service and needs to understand how important a reputation can be, good, or bad... He's fairly young, and may need to learn a few things that more experienced makers learned when they began getting popular. I too am interested to see what he does about this.

Ari
 
As Roger said, the timing of this thread, whether deliberate or not, couldn't have been worse for Bailey because as this thread grows, he can't respond yet.

It is so easy to try and pass some pre-judgement about this situation based on the story from Raj, combined with the pictures, but that wouldn't be fair to anyone without Bailey's input.
 
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