Unworthy of a Mastersmith

I've seen Bailey at the show, and he had superb stuff. I'd love to hear from other makers regarding the size of the screw. One would think that it might be enough, but what do I know? I wonder why B. doesn't thread directly the tang instead.

JD
 
It seems that everyone is keeping a cool head and waiting for a reply from Bailey. I don't think the fact that he has been away at a show has been bad for him, it has just delayed getting the other side of this story.

Edited just to correct a typo and make things easier to read.
 
not even close to trying to stir the pot, but all readers of this thread should use this example of why time is of the essence when recieving goods sight unseen. Timely yeahs and nays are very important. Time never makes bad news get better. I know that if a customer of mine was to wait close to a month after receiving my work,I definitly would not have the finances to return the payment right away. Worst yet if it is a trade, I might have already traded off what was sent to me. I hope this will all work out.
 
Mr. Pinnock, you have asked a lot of valid questions. Some I have mentioned in my first post. Hopefully this will answer your questions more satisfactorily. I received the knife from Mr. Bradshaw about the 15th of November. It was in my mailbox in a priority mailbox, when I checked my mail. I invariably contact the person who sends me a knife ASAP, and let them know I have received the package from them. Many times it is only a cursory exam of the knife before I contact them initially. I worry about the knife being lost in the mail when I send out a parcel and am greatly relieved when I hear of its safe arrival. So I almost always do the fast response to the person who sends me a knife. I emailed Mr. Bradshaw and let him know the knife seemed OK but for the marks at the ricasso area. He responded saying they were forging marks he had meant to clean up. This was close to Thanksgiving and a busy time. As I began to look the knife over slowly, more faults became apparent. I did not want to ask for a refund based on my examination alone. So I contacted another knifemaker and had him look at the knife. He was amazed at the poor quality of this knife. I emailed Mr. Bradshaw on the 10th of December asking for a refund saying I was unhappy with it. It was about 25-26 days from my receiving the knife initially to my asking for the refund. I have mentioned that it was about a month when I asked for the refund in my initial post. Thanksgiving, having another person examine the knife, all this does take time. Mr. Bradshaw did not have a time listed on his webpage as to how long he allows for return of knives, the last I looked. Some dealers specify a certain time limit. Some like AG Russell give a lifetime warranty when you buy a knife from their regular catalog. Also I am not returning the knife because my interests had suddenly changed. The reason for the return is the poor quality of the knife. Mr. Bradshaw said that the external faults were all correctable. He said that his finial knob size and engagement were more than adequate. That it was the fit of the guard, ferrule and handle which keeps this type of knife intact and sound. I feel that this type of finial knob/thread engagement is dangerous for heavy use. Also the flux there would have corroded that area. Mr Pete Peterson had said that the size of the screw would be 8 or more, when it is only 4. Mr. Bradshaw said that the time of return was too long. (he should have then said clearly to his customers, that he has a 3 day or 5 day only return policy Money can be spent as easily in 3 days as in 25 days.) He had spent the money. He asked me to send the knife to him and that he will return the money to me when he sells the knife. He said he was doing this as a favour to me, as many knifemakers would have asked me to sell the knife myself. My trust in Mr. Bradshaw was not very high at this point. So I approached the ABS to mediate between us. It took about a month for the ABS to get back with me (as explained in my first post).They cannot mediate between a knifemaker and his customer/client/collector. They are an educational organization and can only make recommendations. They said they had asked Mr. Bradshaw to settle the matter with me. This was on the 9th of January. I have had no communications from Mr. Bradshaw. And then I posted in the forums.
Sorry for the lengthy note, sincerely, Raj
 
Hi Raj.

This is hard pill to take, contention between two people that I know to be honest men. Too many times, when things like this come up in forums, bad words are said about good folks and in the end no one gains a darn thing. The makers work gets branded as an inferior product and the buyer gets branded as a cry baby. Neither is the case but the damage is still done.
In this thread we have seen at least one post that said the guy would never buy anything from Bailey!!
Some makers will be reluctant to sell to you now that Bailey is being smeared,(so they feel) all over BladeForums.
Neither of you deserve that but that's the way things fall out.

The one that I do fault is the maker who gave you the bad advice about how to address the issue. Instead of being a go between to resolve the issue, as he should have, he hung you both out to dry.
I do not want to know whow he is, I have enough trouble being civil to those I don't like now, without adding another name to it!!

By the way the 4/40 screw still has a direct pull strength of over 3000 lbs. also the flux used is non corrosive.

Please let this stop here while some of us try to iron it out.
 
Just got back from Reno last night at 3:30 am. Tried to post then, but my ISP dropped the connection as the post was loading.

Anyway, after re-reading the posts, I needed to address some more issues. I had hoped Raj was going to be in Reno, and bring the knife, so we could bring this to resolution. This has been agonizing, and I have been questioning the whole ordeal to see what I could do. First, my side of the story.

Most of what Raj has posted regarding the events is accurate from his point of view. He did contact me about the ricasso area problems, and I imediately let him know the problem was repairable and I would fix them and cover shipping costs. Then I heard nothing for almost a month, at which time I learned he had the knife examined by one of my peers,( who should have advised Raj to LET ME FIX THE KNIFE!!!) and wanted a refund. I was taken back by this and felt it was quite aggresive since I had offered to repair the knife, and addmited I let a problem slip by. I asked why he wanted a refund, and he pointed out the final issue. Again, a correctable issue, but not really a problem. I have EXTENSIVELY tested dozens of knives with the exact same configuration with no failures or even signs of stress on the finial screw. As I said to Raj, the fit of the handle and fittings is what keeps the knife sound, very little stress is exerted on the finial. I do use non corrosive flux, andhave yet to have a corrosion problem. I do usually clean the flux, so please understand, the flux would have been cleaned when I would have disassembled the knife to clean up the ricasso forge mark and ginder marks. It was simply forgeting the problems were there, and being in a hurry to get the knife to the PO before it closed.

By the time Raj contacted me about the refund, I had been preparing for three upcoming shows. This means very limited income as Christmas was around the corner, and no sales due to inventory build up. It wasn't a matter of not wanting to refund his money, I simply didn't have it. Had he indicated he wanted a refund as much as two weeks after receiving the knife, I would have refunded his money. I knew I could repair the problems on the knife, and resell the knife in a matter of days, and thoguht this would work best for both of us. I felt justified in asking this of Raj due to the length of time he had the knife. I don't have an inspection period listed on my website, and didn't indicate one (I will from now on), as I have never had an issue like this in the 7 years I have been in business full time. I did explain that most DEALERS, not makers, wouldn't accept the knife back after such time, and that I felt I was offering him a good service. He would be refunded the full amount he paid for the knife, and all shipping costs incurred. Raj' reply was he would send the knife after he received my refund check, since he had to send a check before the knife was shipped. At this point I simply sat on the issue. After two attempts to rectify the ordeal, and two refusals, I was at wits end. I offerd to repair the problems, and then to resell the knife and provide a refund. Raj said he lost trust in me, so I ask, what would I stand to gain by screwing Raj on this knife? I lost trust as well because with his last post, it was construed by several people close to me this was the makings of a scam. I know it is not a scam, and am not accusing Raj of this, but I am not going to open myself to be taken advantage of.

I have worked hard for a good reputation, and I knew this would end up on the forums in this exact format. If I wasn't sincere and felt justified in my actions, I wouldn't have let it go here. I don't think Raj was attempting a smear campaign, and hope that everyone here knows I hold no ill feeling toward Raj. I am sad this dealing went bad, but it is due to poor comunication and jumping to conclusions. I can understand Raj was confused at what to do, and is looking for resolution.

Raj, send the knife to me and the moment it arrives at my PO box, I will have your refund check in the mail to you. I hope if our paths cross, you will sit and talk with me. I don't want enemies or unhappy customers. I would hope all of you realize this, and now that you have both sides of the story, can see that this was a medley of errors. The first is admittedly me letting this knife out in the condition I did. I am not perfect, but do ask for oportuntiy to correct my mistakes. I don't know what else to add.
 
It's nice to hear both sides.


Bailey Bradshaw:

. . .and I imediately let him know the problem was repairable and I would fix them and cover shipping costs.
Click to expand...


That is about as fair as it gets !


I can understand requesting an immediate refund. . .if a maker refuses to repair defects. . .or the defects can't be repaired, but not immediately outta the blocks. :confused:

Just my .02 cents. :)
 
"he would send the knife after he received my refund check"



I have known Bailey for quite some time. I REALLY like his work.

I understand the customer is unhappy and rightly so....but we are all only human......I wouldnt send a refund to an irrate customer without getting the knife first either..........who knows what might happen.


As far as I can see, the problem is solved.
 
It was indeed good to hear Bailey's expaination. After hearing both sides of the issue, the picture becomes much clearer, and understandable.

I congratulate Bailey for publicly taking ownership for his error in the matter; It's hard to do, and takes a big man to do it, but it certainly does show one's integrity.;)

Sounds to me like the matter is resolved.

Frank:cool:
 
As I consider both of these guys friends of mine, I sure hope this can come to a happy ending. Regardless of the outcome, I will still consider both of these guys friends, and I will still buy Bailey's knives.
 
It would appear that a most acceptable offer has been made by Bailey. He is very well known by most of the members here and it would be cataclysmic to him to not follow through with his offer. Seems that when the transaction is completed the issue will be closed and perhaps in the future these two gentlemen may become friends and perhaps conduct business again.

Stuart
 
Originally posted by Bailey Bradshaw
He did contact me about the ricasso area problems, and I imediately let him know the problem was repairable and I would fix them and cover shipping costs.
Click to expand...

This is exactly how, and more importantly, exactly WHEN this problem should have been rectified. Bailey, I think your response was more than reasonable and exhibits the kind of integrity I know you to possess.

Raj, I'm in no way shape or form trying to say you're a bad guy, but I think that taking the better part of a month to decide you don't want the knife is simply not reasonable, regardless of whether there was any specified inspection period. This is even more the case where, as here, you have declined the maker's timely offer to effect repairs at his expense.

All the best to you both.

Roger Pinnock
 
Soundslike this one has a happy ending.
Raj, send the knife.
Bailey,great job stepping up to the plate.

The nice thing is this went 3 pages without insults.
 
Originally posted by lifter4Him


The nice thing is this went 3 pages without insults.
Click to expand...


Hmmm , well, OK, yo' mamma! :)

I knew Bailey would fix the problem, I hope Raj will be satisfied and maybe even buy again from Bailey, all I want to say to Raj is, I have 2 of Bailey's knives, and if you cross him off your list, you'll be missing out on some amazing stuff, your knife seems to be one rare and unfortunate exception. To make a mistake is human, and even Mastersmiths are human I guess we are finding out. :)
 
Originally posted by Megalobyte
To make a mistake is human, and even Mastersmiths are human I guess we are finding out. :)
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure other knives have left, and in the future, will leave other Mastersmith's shops at times where some things are overlooked.
Human error will always play a part of everyones profession at times.

One thing is certain. I've seen his knives and Bailey is a Mastersmith.
 
I am glad I read this thread. And the way the matter is resolved gladdens my heart. Truly a gentleman's way of settling matters.

Congratulations to both parties.

:)
 
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