UPDATE Hinderer Full Track Lock Stick

I’m just guessing here, but I have a feeling that the lock bar inserts on the M390 Full Tracks are too soft and end up galling. Anyone know if lock bar inserts are usually hardened then tempered back to softer than the blade? Maybe the hardening and tempering process was botched.

Tzoid, please keep up posted on how your Full Track holds up after a trip back to the ranch. Maybe I’ll give it one more a try after it’s been out for a year and the kinks are worked out. I really love the design, but I’m still too frustrated to go for round three right now.
I know my lockbar insert showed pretty significant wear early on. It started taking to the shape / angle of the tang. Whether that is by design during Hinderer’s development of the knife is anybody’s guess. The more worn the insert got, the consistently worse the lock stick became.
So yeah, you might be on to something. But, if the majority of the issues are the M390 runs, seems like a defective insert would’ve been used across a much broader run - not just the M390s. Who knows.
 
Update.... I shipped my Full Track to the Ranch and they repaired it the same day they received it and returned it to me. They send an email when it was received and said that these Full Tracks are getting priority attention. They replaced the Lockbar insert , Reset the Detent ball and Reset the Lock bar.

My initial impression is that mine is good to go and Hinderer knocked it out of the park for customer service.

I was happy until I read this. I sent my Full Track to the Ranch, overnight on Feb.28. I called today to check on status, assuming the Germany show would have a delaying effect on the return. My reply was that it would likely get attention next week, that it has not showing as received yet. Tracking shows it was delivered and signed for on April 1.

I emailed the tracking info back to customer service and hope the knife shows up. For the record this is one of the M390s
 
Last I heard, the M390s are very close to being available @ DLT again. Any day now.
Probably making sure they are 100% good to go.
 
Although I don't carry my Full Track every day it still continues to perform flawlessly since coming back from the Ranch. No Lock Stick,
No Thumb damage from Lock bar release , No problems at all.
 
We got in our second round of Full Tracks this past Tuesday. We have sold 5 so far where the customers have asked us to flip them 100 times before shipping them out. Outside of all of us having tinder flipper fingers there have been zero with lock stick. After talking with Rick the problem occurred with less than 10 knives so far that have come back to the Ranch.
 
DLT said only about half their stock got pulled and sent back to Hinderer.
They pulled them all off the site because they didn't want any confusion or anything else potentially suspect going out the door, until they fully heard what Rick said about it.
So, sounds like there were plenty of M390s that were fine.
 
We got in our second round of Full Tracks this past Tuesday. We have sold 5 so far where the customers have asked us to flip them 100 times before shipping them out. Outside of all of us having tinder flipper fingers there have been zero with lock stick. After talking with Rick the problem occurred with less than 10 knives so far that have come back to the Ranch.
Mine must of been 1 of the 10 and it’s been a few weeks since returning it and my thumb still hurts . I was determined to break it in and my thumb lost .
Hope I don’t have nerve damage in my thumb lol . Hopefully the fit and and finish will be better on the next run to .
My 24 I received as a replacement the fit and finish is on par with Hinderers best . With a lock bar that’s user friendly . Don’t think I can ever get another Fulltrack after my first experience and with my thumb still hurting .
 
I'd put the fit and finish of my Tri-Way XM-24 up against any other low production or midtech out there. Impressive knife.
I Couldn’t agree more !
My 24 was a like a breath of fresh air and even though I’ve had many Hinderers that made me feel that way .
The Fulltrack I had made me take a step back and almost turn my back on any future Hinderers after spending 600 dollars on a poorly made Fulltrack .
Glad I gave them another chance because I absolutely love my 24 Tri-way:thumbsup:
 
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I was happy until I read this. I sent my Full Track to the Ranch, overnight on Feb.28. I called today to check on status, assuming the Germany show would have a delaying effect on the return. My reply was that it would likely get attention next week, that it has not showing as received yet. Tracking shows it was delivered and signed for on April 1.

I emailed the tracking info back to customer service and hope the knife shows up. For the record this is one of the M390s

So, what happened afterwards?

I received my M390 FullTrack back from the Ranch with the lock bar adjusted, new insert and new detent ball. It's all I hoped it would be.
 
I think I may know the issue... Since I'm researching for my own folders.

If you use an insert at the same hardness, same steel you will get really bad galling (ie. Sticking). It was probably an issue that wasn't too hard to fix glad to see they have it remedied!
 
I've often thought about that. If I were making knives I'd only use a premium blade steel like the M390/CTS-204P/20CV family. And I wouldn't do like some "high-end' knifemakers do and wuss out on the hardness because they're scared of what some end-users might do, which negates stepping up to better steels in the first place.

Then I'd harden the lockbar insert a few points below what I ran my blades at. I'd rather the blade wear out the replaceable insert than the insert wear out a blade. What I don't know though is just how many points lower would be necessary....5? Run the insert at 55-57 rockwell?

Many grades of stainless do have the tendency to want to gall to each other. This was a problem with the earliest pistols they started doing stainless slides AND frames on. It for sure is a characteristic of 4xx series stainless steels.
 
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I don’t know, my steel insert was showing some serious wear, whereas the blade tang looked brand new..
If anything, it appeared the insert was too soft.
 
I've often thought about that. If I were making knives I'd only use a premium blade steel like the M390/CTS-204P/20CV family. And I wouldn't do like some "high-end' knifemakers do and wuss out on the hardness because they're scared of what some end-users might do, which negates stepping up to better steels in the first place.

Then I'd harden the lockbar insert a few points below what I ran my blades at. I'd rather the blade wear out the replaceable insert than the insert wear out a blade. What I don't know though is just how many points lower would be necessary....5? Run the insert at 55-57 rockwell?

Many grades of stainless do have the tendency to want to gall to each other. This was a problem with the earliest pistols they started doing stainless slides AND frames on. It for sure is a characteristic of 4xx series stainless steels.

From my research it needs to be at least a 5 point difference and preferably a different steel. But I'm actually gonna try using the same steel - hopefully there will just be a tad of lock stick but not much. If it doesn't work I'll remake the inserts.

I don’t know, my steel insert was showing some serious wear, whereas the blade tang looked brand new..
If anything, it appeared the insert was too soft.

Well part of it is the fact that the insert is only contacting the flat portion of the lock face on a very small portion, so I believe even if it were the same hardness it would still wear more quickly.
 
I just got a Full Track with the exact same problem. The lock stick is so bad I’m going to try to exchange it.
 
Just received a Full Track about an hour ago. Within ten minutes of opening and closing it is sticking. I think it's the German Luger syndrom, as it warms up from use it locks-up because of the tight tolerances. The knife can be opened two or three times then the lockbar sticks.

Layed the knife down for a few minutes and flicked it open. No lockbar sticking. Has to be the heat from the hand warming the knife and causing lock stick. I'd bet the Hinderer shop is air conditioned. Now to see if break in helps.

Update: using index finger to unlock is easier and still one hand closing.

A little MCM took care of the sticking. Sebenzas will stick when opened hard also (not recomended).

Update #2:
Love this knife. It's braking in perfectly and zero lock stick. Anyone getting a Full Track should clean and lube before using. This goes for any new knife. Will be purchasing more Hinderer knives for sure.
 
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