Updated RAM?

The RAM is my new go-to knife for anyone who wants a knife. They say "Brett, you're a collector, tell me which knife is right for me." Normally this is followed by a series of questions, honing in precisely which knife to get.

But now I can just say "the RAM." It's the best value. Best size. Good, if not great materials. Best lock, best action, good ergos, etc etc etc.

If we go this way, I can't do that anymore. Kershaw has the industry leader. This is the Corvette. I'd rather have my RAM than a Sebenza, prices being equal (and of course, they're not).

The RAM should be a flagship. This is the Leek of the next generation. I don't believe this is the direction the RAM should go. Let's see a mini RAM, or a full sized RAM, or a Ti RAM with a CB. If you want, an FRN RAM with 440A. But let's keep it made here. The price is already fantastic, given the stuff you're getting. The price doesn't need adjustment.

Any knife that can obsolete the mini grip, the delica and the blur--that's a knife that's worth the special treatment.
 
I agree with Artfully Martial, although I must admit that he and I appear to be the RAM fanatics on the board.

The RAM is by far my favourite knife right now, and I have 2 more coming in the mail that my friends ordered after seeing mine.

If anything I would like to see it going in the opposite direction.* Damascus or composite blades :D
 
There are a ton of RAM fanatics on these forums. However, we are the minority...even sprint runs are really only done for the hardcore junkies...youre average Kershaw owner shops at box stores and bases alot of the decision on price, not the steel or where its made...so most of the features we look for they are completely ignorant of...hence the low sales volume.
 
This knife, at the current price and all its existing stats, should, given visibility, outsell the major mid-range EDCs of the world, notably the mini-grip, delica and blur. There's no way Joe Average will pick up these four knives and not IMMEDIATELY know that the RAM is far, far, far superior, and beyond its obvious functional superiority, it's cheaper.

I don't have sales figures. And yes, I imagine were it cheaper, it'd sell better. But this should already be the best selling knife in this price range.
 
I'm on the fence; I'll wait and see what happens. But I know that Thomas will make sure it's good no matter what.
Maybe make a spine release kit? Like a handle kit that you could sell? But hey, what do I know about selling knives.
 
You're preaching to the choir (I can be a choir right?) AM. I believe the RAM to be superior in it's function. Let's face it, it flips better than any knife I've handled. All the pieces seem to be in place for it to be a success and to be a launch pad for next gen Kershaw flippers. Upgrade to the spine release, premium steel, and presto, next big thing, right?

Unfortunately, out of the gate the RAM is a bit slow in sales. Now we've always looked at new releases success/failure rate through a 18 to 24 month window, and we're not there with the RAM as we talk here today. Who knows, maybe it will take off, it's entirely possible. As of today though, I see no indication of that.

You mention "given visibility" AM, and that is the issue we are having with the buyers in meaningful businesses. Don't know why, it's just been difficult.

Being a volume mover, unless a knife get's into retailers that can make a difference (Wal-Mart, Bass Pro, Dick's, Cabela's, Academy, etc...), it's difficult to justify again investing into projects that had little success the first time around.

We've discussed price point concerning this knife, and feel like maybe we could give the pattern some upgrades (spine release, possible size adjustments, etc...), make it quite nicely in China (strong tolerances, decent steel), and sell it for half it's current price. Could that turn the heads and raise the right eyebrows that we currently seek? Open the door to future upscale RAM's and it's predecessors? Personally, I think that is the only way Joe Public will ever see this knife, and feel it for what it is.

I honestly think the knife would turn out sweet.

Anyway, it's all just talk, but we will be making decisions in the near future.

Of course input is always welcomed. Good discussion here.
 
You're preaching to the choir (I can be a choir right?) AM. I believe the RAM to be superior in it's function. Let's face it, it flips better than any knife I've handled. All the pieces seem to be in place for it to be a success and to be a launch pad for next gen Kershaw flippers. Upgrade to the spine release, premium steel, and presto, next big thing, right?

Unfortunately, out of the gate the RAM is a bit slow in sales. Now we've always looked at new releases success/failure rate through a 18 to 24 month window, and we're not there with the RAM as we talk here today. Who knows, maybe it will take off, it's entirely possible. As of today though, I see no indication of that.

You mention "given visibility" AM, and that is the issue we are having with the buyers in meaningful businesses. Don't know why, it's just been difficult.

Being a volume mover, unless a knife get's into retailers that can make a difference (Wal-Mart, Bass Pro, Dick's, Cabela's, Academy, etc...), it's difficult to justify again investing into projects that had little success the first time around.

We've discussed price point concerning this knife, and feel like maybe we could give the pattern some upgrades (spine release, possible size adjustments, etc...), make it quite nicely in China (strong tolerances, decent steel), and sell it for half it's current price. Could that turn the heads and raise the right eyebrows that we currently seek? Open the door to future upscale RAM's and it's predecessors? Personally, I think that is the only way Joe Public will ever see this knife, and feel it for what it is.

I honestly think the knife would turn out sweet.

Anyway, it's all just talk, but we will be making decisions in the near future.

Of course input is always welcomed. Good discussion here.


Sounds great to me Thomas! If these knives are what allow you to do sprint runs, upgrade stuff in the warehouse, expand, etc. then by all means go for it! Most people need a great starter knife anyway, and this sounds like it would become the decision of many to have as their first knife. :thumbup:
 
Ram made in China? That might explain this-
fail-owned-suggest-fail.jpg

I suppose a bunch of chinese people running around with ram's is pretty terrifying.
 
i agree, please nooo Made in China Rams... and I'm Chinese myself... you risk lead poisoning if u are careless and cut yourself...

the RAM never appealed to me due to its shape. Its not very attractive
 
I still think if you left the production on US shores, more Joe Averages would buy the knife. There is a strong sense of American pride and "Made in the (good ole) USA" in this country. I have it now too and I wasn't even born in America. If you want offshore production, I'd say I wouldn't mind them being made in Germany or Japan.
 
We're considering manufacturing the next gen RAM over to China. New lock placement, 8CR steel, price drop.

What is wrong with that?
I think it will make the line more "User friendly".
I will admit that I am scarred to use any of my Kershaws. They just sit on my desk. They are just really nice knives. That is why I haven't carried a R.A.M. yet. There are a lot of people out there that just don't want to pay $60 and up for a knife. They will buy 3 or 4 $20 to $30 knives.
If the new R.A.M. carries the standard Kershaw warranty I see no problem.
I can't wait to see the new one. Hurry up.:D

J.W.
 
The RAM is one of those things you have to HANDLE to appreciate....

I saw it in a magazine...... didnt think twice about it due to its rather small size, lack of spring assist etc....

Then , while at Blade 2008, I got to meet Grant and Gavin Hawk..... i handled their custom RAMs and were BLOWN AWAY at how smooth the flipper was..... the ball locking detent had JUST enough tension, that when it fired, it felt like a freakin spring assist!
I was impressed with the Custom version......
then he put the Kershaw made version in my hand and Hot D@mm! It felt just as good! I was really impressed that a PRODUCTION knife at that price point could be made like that..... to be SO smooth!

With all that said, I have YET to actually buy a RAM yet..... i guess im waiting on a special Damascus or Composite version to come out....

guess i could help out by buying the current version first eh?
 
I think it would be great for the average spender.. But I will opt for the real deal... As long as I can... While im not against it, im not for it.. Make sense?
 
You're preaching to the choir (I can be a choir right?) AM. I believe the RAM to be superior in it's function. Let's face it, it flips better than any knife I've handled. All the pieces seem to be in place for it to be a success and to be a launch pad for next gen Kershaw flippers. Upgrade to the spine release, premium steel, and presto, next big thing, right?

Unfortunately, out of the gate the RAM is a bit slow in sales. Now we've always looked at new releases success/failure rate through a 18 to 24 month window, and we're not there with the RAM as we talk here today. Who knows, maybe it will take off, it's entirely possible. As of today though, I see no indication of that.

You mention "given visibility" AM, and that is the issue we are having with the buyers in meaningful businesses. Don't know why, it's just been difficult.

Being a volume mover, unless a knife get's into retailers that can make a difference (Wal-Mart, Bass Pro, Dick's, Cabela's, Academy, etc...), it's difficult to justify again investing into projects that had little success the first time around.

We've discussed price point concerning this knife, and feel like maybe we could give the pattern some upgrades (spine release, possible size adjustments, etc...), make it quite nicely in China (strong tolerances, decent steel), and sell it for half it's current price. Could that turn the heads and raise the right eyebrows that we currently seek? Open the door to future upscale RAM's and it's predecessors? Personally, I think that is the only way Joe Public will ever see this knife, and feel it for what it is.

I honestly think the knife would turn out sweet.

Anyway, it's all just talk, but we will be making decisions in the near future.

Of course input is always welcomed. Good discussion here.



Thomas -

You make some excellent points here, and you also make an excellent case for a chinese RAM.

While the collectors may not like Chinese knives, I think you have an opportunity to make a fantastic knife here. It's all in what factory you use and your relationship with them. As a designer, I learned early on that offering an economically priced Chinese product will get your product into more people's hands and can increase sales significantly.

I am very curious to see what this can do for the sales of the RAM. I sincerely hope that a better price point will win over more buyers.

I worry a bit that the problem may be as much the styling of the RAM as it is the price. The Hawks design some fantastic knives, but their geometric/contemporary style is probably not as universally loved as Ken Onion's work. I like their unique style, but my favorite thing about the RAM is how well it functions. That smooth flipping action and lock release is what makes this knife shine for me more than the design.

If you can incorporate the updated RAM III lock into a more economical package, you very well may get more people willing to take a chance on this intriguing little knife. I just hope it doesn't get too downgraded in the process. The G-10 and the aluminum handle gives it a nice solid feel.
 
Guys, don't you see? The other two have designs in China too--this could be the Red class buster/tenacious overcomer or whatever you want to call it. Has Kershaw really "failed" us in making an awesome sprint run?

The more I think about it, the more I do like the idea--even here in knife capital of the world Oregon, average people are leery of spending upwards of $50 on knives. Something this awesome would just be the beginning. It'd be something we'd be glad to recommend to our friends.

*steps off soap box and puts it underneath school desk*
 
Lowering the price will undoubtedly result in an increase in sales. And I'm not against it, even at the cost of some features/quality etc etc.

But, as a business move, I'm wary of this for several reasons.

First off, if no one is buying the RAM currently, it's not because of the price. The price of this knife is VERY competitive with many of the best selling models in its range. Yes, of course a lower price will increase the appeal (in the beginning). But if people can't BUY the knife, it won't matter. And this is what I'm seeing right now.

Out of the three B&M stores that carry a lot of Kershaws near here, only 1 had the RAM, and it just had two of them, and now that I bought one, it only has one.

So effectively, as far as I can tell, in the DFW metroplex, the 4th largest of its kind in the country, including the 19th and 9th largest cities in the country, in addition to Arlington (population 350,000 or so), there is one RAM being sold.

This is true for Waco as well (population 130,000), which, as far as I can tell, has 0 RAMs, and I've looked.

I could see this being a problem with bringing this product to market in a meaningful way.

This is a very effective design. Why not some of the old Speedsafe displays, but with the RAM? Maybe a passaround with the stores themselves? If this segment sees this knife, they will choose it 90% of the time over the alternatives.

I'm sure a big Walmart deal would be a breakthrough, but have your conventional channels been pushed adequately?

Maybe we could get web ads at the big online retailers?


Now, my second point of concern is that a Chinese stamp will hurt Kershaw's reputation, and the reputation of that particular knife. For many consumers, the Chinese stamp will deter a purchase. In the long run, for the company, this could hurt the feeling of quality.

Now, I'm not making the empirical claim that Chinese products are lower quality, overall, than their American counterparts. But I am strongly making the claim that the consumer believes that this is true. Certainly, it hasn't deterred them from buying exclusively Chinese clothes (for instance), and even paying extraordinary prices for it (Coach bags, for instance).

But I think the knife buying populace is more conscious of the origin of the products. Clearly, sales from your competitors in their Chinese sourced lines hasn't suffered because of this. But I'm thinking more in the long term. You're associating a product of your company with perceived low quality. And you want this to be a huge hit, of course, as we all do. So if successful, people will associate Kershaw with Chinese production in a significant way. If unsuccessful, then you lose money immediately and it doesn't matter.

Currently, Kershaw enjoys the reputation of large scale US production and the perception of quality that comes with it. I cannot say that anymore of Benchmade or Spyderco. By attacking the lower end of their production while using a country of origin that compromises their sterling reputations, I believe that future consumers will be less likely to buy the higher end products.

We see this effect in several existing markets. For instance, what's the central reason the Corvette is much less desirable than a Ferrari 430? It's made by Chevrolet--the same company you can get a 12000 dollar Aveo from. Ferrari, in consumer's minds, has never produced an undesirable product. Each car is associated only with the highest quality. Examples like this in the automotive market abound.



You can lower the price point without taking the associated perceived loss in quality with other ways, and I believe this is the better option for Kershaw's long term.
 
true, but for the same reason someone might by an OD-2 instead of an OD-1 the impulse buyers will be more attracted to a clam packed (you can see the knife) kershaw they can have for 30 bucks hanging next to other target and walmart specials.

while we are an excellent test bed here for sprint runs and new ideas our bladeforum reach does not extend to the general population as well as some of us would like (or like to think ;) )

the first kershaw i ever bought that was made in china was the OSO sweet. I bought it for a giveaway and had the chance to look it over for defects. the handle and liner were certainly up to kershaw tolerances and standards and the blade was exactly what i expected a sub 30 dollar knife. It was kershaw sharp, but i saw a lot of touch ups in its future.

typically the path of the walmart buyer that i have encountered is that they bought it because they were curious and it was inexpensive and they needed something in or near the counter or aisle where the knives were being kept. once they stumble upon something they perceive to be a winner in their minds, they become more curious as the the particular maker's other offerings.

while sometimes they are drawn back to walmart or something, they start to seek out higher end shops and online stores. thus leading them eventually here into the kershaw fold :)

provided the chinese production folders and fixed blades maintain the current price-quality proportionality that makes kershaw so appealing to us, i think moving some models over there creates a perfect gateway drug to the kershaw addiction.
 
I think now would be a good time to re-read the message Thomas gave us a while back. Rarely have I seen someone at Thomas's position been so candid and frank with us, and the insight he offers is eye-opening, inspirational and heartfelt.

Everyone needs to read this, and then think about how it applies to this thread, particularly when it comes to off-shore manufacturing.


Well here we are, just weeks into 2009. Like every new year, 2009 will bring forth highs, lows, both joy and tears. This annual turnover will also take each of us to new unveiled chapters in our everyday walks. Such it is with the life we all share. Of course attitude will play a role in one’s coping with the up’s and downs of this crazy world. Attitude, a mind-set, one’s approach or outlook on the circumstances at hand, or even deeper, into ones future. Seems it should be like a flip of the switch to bring light into a dark moment, or to overcome the “natural” reaction that society has bred up to believe we should act in a time of situational peril. Hmm…attitude, such a modest little word, but yet a word that can transport optimism from shear suckiness, a word that can fire up hope from actual hopelessness. Where attitude comes from is a mystery, some seem to be able to effortlessly breed it onto and into one’s fellow man, and most can truly feed off this unusual, uplifting breath of outwardly positive thoughts, feelings, and emotion. Now there also a few chosen that have that incurable case of Eeyore Syndrome, but the norm remains unknowingly eager to want more sunshine on those awful gloomy days.

2009 is indeed crashing the party with doom and gloom for many around the world, and maybe attitude is more important now than it has been for a while for those folks. Thus is the case for our little cottage knife industry. I assure you, the industry, our industry, is seriously feeling the party crashing of the year 2009. From retailers on up to manufacturing, 2009 has pounced from day one and even borrowed sorrow from its now older cohort 2008. I guarantee you it is not pretty on any cutlery front, and certainly there will be casualties as we progress through this awkward chapter of our reality. Maybe survival defines success these days, but make no mistake, it is leaner and scarier within the industry than I’ve seen in the last 25 years. I shudder to think of the industry tomorrow, but have faith that we will all adapt and be the over comer’s of these most challenging of times. We’ve gotten to a point where we are rooting for our fellow competitors success, as others can only follow the defeat of even just one. Trust me when I tell you, it’s that bad, and I’m unsure if the worst is behind us.

Running Kai USA’s Sales Dept. in these days has been quite testing, and I can’t say there are not sleepless nights, and those pesky gray hairs are revealing themselves with daily regularity. Mood swings have been fast and furious, and the demands of my surroundings have me on my heels. This is not to say that our business is not currently successful, but more to say that it is different than it was even up to just 6 months ago. I should in fact mention that 2008 was our most successful campaign in the company’s history. That momentum is precious to us as we march forward.

We recently had our annual sales/budget meeting, and expectations we’re not surprisingly lowered. What really floored me at the retreat was something that I least expected…my attitude was altered. With all of this sky is falling talk, one Mr. Jack Igarashi (Kai USA V.P. of N.A. Operations), a most talented business man and maybe even a better marathon runner, turned me, and my…my negative skepticism upside down with his incredible, inspiring, yes you guessed it, attitude. Jack sprung on me like unexpecting child, and disclosed a short term business plan that is formulated with 2 tiny ingredients, most important of which was, attitude. With all that said, Kai USA has implemented our 3 “C’s” mentality for 2009, and it has me (for lack of a better phrase) "jacked up" . Those encouraging 3 C’s formulate into the following: Change, Courage, and Challenge.

Change:

Helen Keller said, “To keep our faces toward change and behave like free spirits in the presence of fate is strength undefeatable”. Uplifting words Ms. Keller.

Our outlook, work habits, efficiency will have change. The way we do business in general will change. Times have been drastically altered, so the way we conduct business has to be changed. To stay the course could be a virtual death sentence. Status quo is not in our equation. Some of our changes will affect you the consumer, some of it you may love, and other parts you may not, but the times have pushed us in a direction of change. Just as many of you have made alterations in your own lives, we to have to pursue what is best for our long term success. Folks don’t always like change, I certainly don’t, but necessary change is exciting and has consumed managements imagination with implementation of change. It’s almost a feeling of starting fresh, a, turning of the page if you will, and so a new chapter of Kai USA begins.
2009 is Kershaw’s 35th year in business, you should all know there is a change on the horizon.

Courage:

Dorothy Thompson was once quoted as saying, “Courage, it would seem, is nothing less than the power to overcome danger, misfortune, fear, injustice, while continuing to affirm inwardly that life with all its sorrows is good; that everything is meaningful even if in a sense beyond our understanding; and that there is always tomorrow”.

Kai USA fights for this kind of courage, and it is in fact our goal to attain it during these dangerous and unfortunate times. We will succeed, will overcome, and there will always be a tomorrow. The company will Dare each Day, and tomorrow will indeed come.

Challenge:

Mark Twain voiced that Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.

I looked at this as each of us taking on our own personal challenges. We all have unique challenges every day, and every day we set out to confront them whether we want to or not. As a company, we want not to be disappointed or fearful, but more on the side of those who want to explore, dream, and discover the success and opportunity that lie directly ahead. We can do it, will do it, we won't be denied. As a company that is very goal oriented, we take this current challenge head on, ready and able.

Although the 3 C's lack the details you may be curious to hear, we felt it important thay you heard our general direction and attitude from here on forth.

We most certainly appreciate our customers support, and value them more than you know. Without you all we would not exist, and so ultimately you are our constant focus. From everyone at Kai USA we want to wish you a most blessed 2009 and shout out Thank You to our most celebrated customers.

Change, Courage, and Challenge, Kai USA can’t hardly wait to dive further into the new year
 
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