Useless knives

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Steering this back away from Night Rider's drift on Opinels and back to the question of what is or is not "useful"...

Your post reminds me that there is a third important definition for useful. Something along the lines of "the knife is well suited to my personal day to day uses."

I have or have had a bunch of knives that I recognize as being useful for other people but are really useless to me.

I have a couple of Schrade 5OTs in my roll. I love these little knives and think they're cool as anything. But they're just too small for my day to uses and for me, in the end, I find them useless.

I've had more Victorinox Classics than I can count. Used to pick up them as trade show freebies. Used one for several years as my primary UL backpacking tool. Ditto a small Camillus serpentine jack (aka peanut by another name). The Classics generally busted on me in a year's time and the Camillus was just too small for me. Useless knives IMO.

I inherited my grandfathers 6.5" hunting bowie. Has the notches from several of his deer. Cheap knife. Priceless family heirloom to me. Utterly useless in terms of what I do with knives. I think the same thing of the Buck 119 for that matter.

Obviously, I don't think this definition of useful/useless is too helpful in this context. It's like talking about preferences for beer, coffee or shoes. What works for one person may or may not work for another. Lots of folks like small lock backs, Vic Classics, Peanuts and large bowies. The fact that I personally don't find them useful or worse, consider them to be useless (for me), doesn't make them useless as a generality.

Point of fact... An Opinel #8 is quite useable right out of the box for most people in most situations. Yes, their wet condition performance can be improved. Yes, they require some maintenance that is unfamiliar to most American users. Yes, they have their limits. Most knives do.
Useless is certainly subjective. Right tool for the right job is another consideration. If you are breaking a vic classic every year while back packing you are using the wrong tool. If your opinel can't successfully cut zucchini without the "lock" failing because it is defective out of box, it is the wrong tool. Cheap wrong tools get thrown away in my book, or they get used for the right purpose. I'm not wasting my time to research and fix an opinel. Sorry. There are much better options.

I've never had a vic classic fail but I have used them appropriately.

I think there is more to this useful definition than just the tool. Seems the people might be the issue in some cases.
 
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Useless is certainly subjective. Right tool for the right job is another consideration. If you are breaking a vic classic every year while back packing you are using the wrong tool. If your opinel can't successfully cut zucchini without the "lock" failing because it is defective out of box, it is the wrong tool. Cheap wrong tools get thrown away in my book, or they get used for the right purpose. I'm not wasting my time to research and fix an opinel. Sorry. There are much better options.

I've never had a vic classic fail but I have used them appropriately.

I think there is more to this useful definition than just the tool. Seems the people might be the issue in some cases.

1) I also carried Classics in the way they are advertised - as a key ring tool. My mistake is that I actually used them. Typical failure process: crack and then loose scales, toothpick and tweezers self eject (<- a feature, not a bug imo as both fail to deliver their intended purpose), scissor spring breaks, main blade pivot opens up. Usually took about 12 months for this to happen. After a few, I quit picking them up at trade shows.

2) Would love to hear more about an Opinel lock failing while cutting zucchini. I've never had an Opinel lock fail but I have used them appropriately (roughly akin to the resistance of a large slip joint). I'm picturing hundreds of thousands of French fingers laying on cutting boards across France from people trying to cut vegetables with their inherently unsafe Opinels. It's an amusing image largely because of its absurdity.

3) Your unwillingness to learn about techniques and traditions from other cultures isn't altogether uncommon. But, as you say, people might be the issue in some cases.
 
1) I also carried Classics in the way they are advertised - as a key ring tool. My mistake is that I actually used them. Typical failure process: crack and then loose scales, toothpick and tweezers self eject (<- a feature, not a bug imo as both fail to deliver their intended purpose), scissor spring breaks, main blade pivot opens up. Usually took about 12 months for this to happen. After a few, I quit picking them up at trade shows.

2) Would love to hear more about an Opinel lock failing while cutting zucchini. I've never had an Opinel lock fail but I have used them appropriately (roughly akin to the resistance of a large slip joint). I'm picturing hundreds of thousands of French fingers laying on cutting boards across France from people trying to cut vegetables with their inherently unsafe Opinels. It's an amusing image largely because of its absurdity.

3) Your unwillingness to learn about techniques and traditions from other cultures isn't altogether uncommon. But, as you say, people might be the issue in some cases.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/opinel-fed-up.883979/

A guy on this very forum had an opinel fail after cutting zucchini.


Also, why should I learn to fix an inferior out of box tool when a proper tool is available? Talk about useless wasted time....
 
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/opinel-fed-up.883979/

A guy on this very forum had an opinel fail after cutting zucchini.


Also, why should I learn to fix an inferior out of box tool when a proper tool is available? Talk about useless wasted time....

Indeed!! That was 7 years ago. That guy asked for advice, listened and learned.

When confronted by stick shifts, my kids insist there are better options and that learning is a waste of time. I see that attitude as a indicator that I failed to teach them to learn.

Rest of the story about that thread (which I had forgotten about - very funny find, btw) was that I got that very old and hard used Opinel in a trade for some bike parts. Looking back on that, the lock ring had loosened up with age and use and all it needed was some basic maintenance - not unlike adjust a pivot on a modern folder just different technique. Out of the box, there is no need for that, as I'm sure you know.

Rest of the story on that particular knife... It was an Opinel 8 and after carrying it for a year or so, I determined it was too small for my taste so I passed along to a buddy who's a carpenter. I joked, "See if you can break it." After 2 years of opening cans and prying wood with the blade, he finally work hardened and snapped the blade. The knife never developed any blade play.
 
I think we're capable of sorting this out. I think there are two basic forms of useful/useless that this thread is surfacing.

The first is roughly along the lines of "capable of performing somewhat normal cutting tasks by somewhat normal people in somewhat normal circumstances". I think we can all agree that the too wide to actually hold SAKs, the too big to actually carry Opinels and the bizarre fantasy knife monstrosities shown in this thread all fall outside of this understanding of useful.

The other definition of useful is the one we all learned in business or economic classes - economic utility. That is, if somebody is willing to buy an object it has some economic utility to them. Perhaps that utility is that they do nothing with it other than to put it next to their TV set so they can behold the beauty (in their eyes) of the thing. Who knows? And really, who cares? They willingly paid their money for it, ergo, it has some utility for them. It is useful because it makes them happy. In this sense, each and every knife posted is or was useful to somebody.

I would make a joke about the utility of a knife as a prop in some forms of cos play, but if I think about that too hard, I can't draw a clean line between cos play (which I want to mock) and my choice to carry a Buck 110 most days.

You’re over-analyzing things.

I think what we actually have in this thread is people looking for a reason to argue.
 
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Not totally useless but definitely a stupid and lame executed design for $500
Good old constipation knife.
 
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Certainly. Bad design. That said, I would call an unused Loveless or Scagel far more useful than those design monstrosities, used or not. They serve no purpose.
I'd say, also, that any if these classic designs (despite being very valuable collectors pieces, would excell at knife talks. I can't imagine a loveless hunter, or a scagle design not performing at the tasks they have excelled at for generations.)


At first I thought that opinels were useless and a bit of a joke but after reading so many positive reviews here on the BF I'll have to pick one up and give it a go. Such a large group of faithful followers can't be denied and I plan on doing some whittling on my next camping/fishing trip so which size or model would be best suited for that?

It is a balance between your hand size, and stock thickness. I like the thin blades on #7's and #8's a lot. My go to yard knives are 10's. But they have a bit thicker blade stock and much bigger handles. The photo I posted goes from a 7, 8 to two 10's.



I like Opinels as much as the next guy but I'm not sure I'd take one fishing. Those handles are porous and untreated. :/
I've fished, canoed, and actually swam with a carbon. Keeping it wet, in my pocket for half the day( to see how bad the swell got) I could still open it, though it took more thought). I put oil, or vaseline on the pivots and heat it up with a hair dryer to get it soaked in.

<drift>
Opinels do well in dirt and sand as their pivot and lock ring aren't affected by grit as much as lock backs and liner locks are. But Opinel's become more challenged by being wet constantly, as the wood can swell making the pivot tighter.



IMO, the biggest thing to grasp about an Opinel is that it comes from another country and, really, another time. There is a bunch of common sense lore about how to use and maintain that style of knife that we, as modern consumerist Americans, don't know or understand. There are countless threads on this forum about how to take apart and clean various modern flippers and plenty of discussions of people's favorite lubes for knife actions. None of this applies to an Opinel. Opinels require a different set of approaches.

IME, an Opinel can be used out of the box in most situations just fine. If the joint becomes tight, grab the knife by the collar and whack the butt end of the handle on a hard object. A boot heel works fine. In France, that sound is called the "coup du savoyard". Anyway, this will usually pop the blade out enough to get a better grip on it.

IME, the best lubricant for the joint is Johnson's Floor Wax paste available at most hardware stores. Carpenter's wax or bees wax will also work well. Stuff as much wax as you can in and around the joint and melt it in with a heat gun. This will help the Opinel stand up to water betting and will help reduce binding. But it won't make it into a dive knife. If you like to swim with a knife in your pocket or are doing active water sports, there are better choices, IMO.

The #8 is the most popular size and still small enough to work for front pocket carry. I prefer the #9 for general carry but I carry my EDC knives in my rear pocket.

IME, the Sandvik Inox is so good there is no reason other than tradition to get the 1086 Carbone.

</drift>

I've experienced the swelling, but never to where I found I not open it. I did bend a nail once, but had been I the water in a river for hours with the opinel in my pocket while floating the river in just a life jacket with my kids (we kept floating, then getting out, and riding a truck back up and jumping in again).

I can confirm, the stainless seems better for edge retention and is still super easy to get and keep razor sharp).


They are not the be all, end all. I just enjoy them, and can't imagine a cheaper cutting tool that also cuts better. Plus, I can modify them without concerns.

I have used them unmodified also, with no issues.
 
Useless is certainly subjective. Right tool for the right job is another consideration. If you are breaking a vic classic every year while back packing you are using the wrong tool. If your opinel can't successfully cut zucchini without the "lock" failing because it is defective out of box, it is the wrong tool. Cheap wrong tools get thrown away in my book, or they get used for the right purpose. I'm not wasting my time to research and fix an opinel. Sorry. There are much better options.

Would love to hear more about an Opinel lock failing while cutting zucchini. I've never had an Opinel lock fail but I have used them appropriately (roughly akin to the resistance of a large slip joint). I'm picturing hundreds of thousands of French fingers laying on cutting boards across France from people trying to cut vegetables with their inherently unsafe Opinels. It's an amusing image largely because of its absurdity.

A guy on this very forum had an opinel fail after cutting zucchini.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/opinel-fed-up.883979/

Also, why should I learn to fix an inferior out of box tool when a proper tool is available? Talk about useless wasted time....

:D:D:D ….. cant breathe……! :D:D:D:D
….doubled over....:D:D:D

But people might be the issue in some cases.
I do believe, you are right.
 
I'd say, also, that any if these classic designs (despite being very valuable collectors pieces, would excell at knife talks. I can't imagine a loveless hunter, or a scagle design not performing at the tasks they have excelled at for generations.)

Nailed it. They are functional cutters and function as beautiful objects because of their elegant functionality.

I'm not even sure that makes sense to me! :p

I guess my point is that knives, to me, have several uses, as efficient cutting tools (craft?) and beautiful objects (art?). The great makers do both at the same time.
 
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Not totally useless but definitely a stupid and lame executed design for $500

And it's funny, because Duane can make a nice knife when he sets his mind to it, but sometimes he is on the belt grinder while drunk, and it's just not pretty.
 
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I was on the TSA Instagram and I noticed quite a few of these gun knife thing a kabobs. I don't really get it, but I guess people think it's a bright idea to disguise a knife as a gun and then try to sneak it on a plane...
 
gun-knife1-300x250.jpg


I was on the TSA Instagram and I noticed quite a few of these gun knife thing a kabobs. I don't really get it, but I guess people think it's a bright idea to disguise a knife as a gun and then try to sneak it on a plane...
That's a fine specimen of a mid tec gunife. If it lights cigarettes i'm buying one:thumbsup:
 
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