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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
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Uses of a Tanto.
- Thread starter whitefox
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Bigfattyt
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That link actually shows that the American Tanto shape, does in fact, have basis in traditional Japanese swords.
part way down the page "KAMASU-KISSAKI" pattern is shown. One note is that very few examples survived to look at, unless they were stored, because in polishing/sharpening the flat angles were lost and rounded out. Click the link for that pattern will bring up a preserved example that you can zoom in on.
Neat just to look at.
http://www.emuseum.jp/detail/100181/001/003?x=&y=&s=&d_lang=en&s_lang=ja&word=&class=6&title=&c_e=®ion=&era=&cptype=&owner=&pos=9&num=6&mode=detail¢ury=
As to the OP question. Not sure. I have done testing with snap cuts with different knives with various profiles. Daggers, "American" tanto style, bowie, clip points etc.
The American Tanto has it in the snap cut department. The secondary point really affects the penetration on cardboard, meat and cloth! And I mean very impressively so!
I don't find that the American Tanto gives a huge piercing advantage from the standpoint of ease of penetration.
You will be hard pressed to beat a double edged dagger or stiletto for that.
What I will say, is that you will be much less likely to loose a tip on an American tanto style blade as you will on a dagger, even with the same sized stock if you make an off thrust, or hit something with resistance (because the grind on the American Tanto is typically much much more robust). I have broken the tip off of more than one dagger!
I have carried and used American style tantos for longer than a decade (the CS recon1 tanto, and Kobun are both still going strong! Even with some stupid use and abuse).
I tended to find the older Recon 1 Tanto blade (the 4 inch folder with ultra/axis style lock) to be a very strong point, but not as great for ease of penetration. The dropped tip, with full thickness spine tended to give a lot of resistance. The different tip on the Kobun (where the point is in line with the spine, not a drop point tanto) penetrated much better.
But none of the American style tanto knives made me a Ninja, or a super knife fighter, edged weapon superhero! For some reason, I was still just a fat guy with a knife!
With that said, I tend to be less drawn toward the American Tanto design anymore. I like a nice clip point Recon 1 with the new triad lock for light strong pocket carry. Most times I have a little fixed blade Busse BAD in my pocket.
A well placed stab from any reasonably sturdy knife (dagger, tanto, clip point, spear point etc) will be deadly against plain old t-shirt wearing meat. Depending on the grind, you might loose the tip on the dagger (if you have an off angle stab meet a bone, or anything hard). Even most folding knives with a decent lock will split human density ribs (or the closest analogue we are allowed to use normally. (Goats, white tail deer, pigs). Heck, a Buck 110 with a nice grippie handle material would do just as well as many "tactical, operator, aggressive" designs.
Many traditional fighting style knives are simply just beefed up kitchen cutlery style. Early bowies likely did not even have a guard. They were just bigger butcher style knives where the fingers were protected from sliding up on the edge simply by the drop in the edge in relation to the handle. Gaucho knives, and many single edge dirk/dagger deisgns are basically the same.
In use, daggers are great for fighting because you have two directions of cutting potential, and great piercing. But they dent to be a bit less useful all around.
There is a lot to be said for a well made fighting bowie with a long sharpened clip! In my mind, if I had to pick a fighting knife, this would be my choice (a Bagwell, Hells Bells with a long sharp clip would probably be at the top of my list, along with a few other custom makers that produce nasty fighting style bowies).
Now, it must be said, I have never had to stab anyone. I have never cut human flesh, except my own (pretty badly once or twice!). I pray I never have to (just the same as I pray I never have to shoot any one with the guns I frequently carry).
I am not an operator. I am not trained in any deadly art. (but I have been shooting, throwing knives and hawks and axes, and using knives for most of entire life).
I have used a lot of knives in my life, and butchered animals that I have killed. I have used knives, and broken my fair share of knives. I have cut flesh and bone (much heavier bone than any human bone). I know some of my bigger knives are strong and sharp enough to remove heads, arms and even legs (bone and all) with a hard swing.
If you have a decent knife, with decent geometry, and you keep the edge sharp, it is deadly. Period. End of story.
It does not matter if you have an American tanto, or a single edged drop point, clip point, spear point, or dagger. If you poke an unarmored man with it with force, you will bury the blade until it hits the guard, or handle. If you use force, and a strong grip with a stab, if you hit ribs, they will split. If your knife is reasonably well made, it will go through multiple ribs with no damage to the point.
A well made knife, with an acute point, will pierce soft body armor well enough. I know this because there are Jailors and Police that get stabbed through normal soft body armor occasionally. I have several friends that work in the prisons (and it just so happens I am in the county jail at least once a week), and the smart jailors and officers invest in either stab resistant armor, or buy trauma plates specifically for this risk if they can afford it. (I remember when my buddy was scrimping and saving to upgrade his body armor and his wife was hassling him about it, I knew that relationship would not last. Trying to pressure him to cheap out on his duty gun, and his body armor!).
You will find that with normal soft body armor, the pierce is much more effective than a slash. This is also true for heavily clothed targets as well. (much of this is from people who work in the field and have seen bad things go down, even when the prisoner, or criminal only had a crappy home made shiv, or even kitchen knife with Police officers in soft body armor).
I had a cousin who was attacked with a knife (mistaken identity, the guy kept calling him by some one else's name). He was cut badly about 4 times on his left arm (blocking stabs). He just got very pissed! He happened to have a set of brass knuckles, and chased the 4 guys back to their car, then tuned the car up while all 4 of them were cowering in side, shouting for the driver to start the vehicle). He smashed out the windows of the vehicle and dented it up before they could get it started and took off. Only after they peeled out and he hid the knuckles did he even realize how bad his injuries were. He almost lost consciousness before applying pressure, and getting help. He had to have emergency surgery to save the use of the left hand! But if he had had a knife, or a gun the guy who slashed him would have been dead. He is a nasty, and I mean NASTY, Dirty Fighter, and quick as lightening. He has straight knocked me out in a playful fight. And the last guy who attacked him (local hard A looking for a fight, went to the emergency room with several broken bones, including his arm and leg!!). If the guy had gotten the knife in his chest it might have been a different outcome. My point with the story is that people don't tent to just stand still in a fight!
Some one with no skill or training with a knife, can still be fast, and hurt or kill you. He might be an untrained, twitchy lowlife, but if he has fast reflexes...........
Some one well trained with a knife, and with knife fighting is going to be a formidable foe (hopefully if I ever meet one, it will be with my Glock in my hand, and not a knife).
I don't think I added much to the conversation, but it was entertaining to read.
On a side note, some one else mentioned the utility of a tanto. I have done a lot, and I mean a lot! of wood whittling with several of the CS tantos. I routinely take hickory pix axe handles and carve them down to fit the socket of a CS poll axe for throwing. Doing it by hand with a knife takes me days!!!!! If I had access to a lathe (like I used to it would be a job of minutes!). I believe in one sitting, I carved for 6 hours! Blisters and hand pain! But the tanto tip does make for more precise carving. A dedicated carver with a straight edge and a warnclif or sheeps foot point would be even better.
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Umm... What? Think you missed my point.
My little snip was a shot at cold steel's marketing about the American tanto's ability to snap cut (something I see little use in and have little use for).
-sh00ter
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It wasn't my intention to confront your statement bro. I didn't know that CS advertises the tanto for snap cuts. I did watch Lynn demoing bowie knife fighting and doing snap cuts on the targets. Cold Steel has the best blade for whatever purpose you need. I shouldn't snigger though - I own a Recon-1 (tanto) and a large Voyager (clip point).
It wasn't my intention to confront your statement bro. I didn't know that CS advertises the tanto for snap cuts. I did watch Lynn demoing bowie knife fighting and doing snap cuts on the targets. Cold Steel has the best blade for whatever purpose you need. I shouldn't snigger though - I own a Recon-1 (tanto) and a large Voyager (clip point).
No problems:thumbup:
I own a couple cold steel blades as well, planing on adding an XL clip point voyager soon:thumbup:
-sh00ter