Venom New Concept - lockbar with secondary lock

[45Wheelgun]

Add to this that the same individual owns the copyright for Kevin John, the Venom logo and the CKF logo in China.

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[Dfunk1210]

Samsung was the manufacturer of Sony tech in the 80s. That's how they began to do what they do. If even a manufacturer like Kevin John can move towards their own designs, then more power to them.

 

[evilgreg]

Samsung was the manufacturer of Sony tech in the 80s. That's how they began to do what they do. If even a manufacturer like Kevin John can move towards their own designs, then more power to them.

Get out of here with your logic!

Amusingly some of the same folks that rant about Chinese clone makers who now make their own designs are perfectly fine with buying knives from American clone makers like Microtech or Brous.

 

[kniferbro]

Get out of here with your logic!

Amusingly some of the same folks that rant about Chinese clone makers who now make their own designs are perfectly fine with buying knives from American clone makers like Microtech or Brous.

What about Kaminoan clone makers?

 

[PURPLEDC]

Since forum sponsors bladehq.com is now selling these, I guess that means we can discuss them? Or shall we discuss bladehq.com support for Kevin John?

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I have one too. In violet. Its a great knife. Some of the best machining work I have seen. The lock I actually like very much. I don't need It but I don't limit my purchases to needs. I don't have a bad thing to say about it as a knife. And the hand rubbed satin finish is really really good for a production knife let alone one under $300.

Add to this that the same individual owns the copyright for Kevin John, the Venom logo and the CKF logo in China.

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It is true, the factory that makes kevin john actually makes the CKF knives. Custom knife factory started out many years ago selling mostly clones. They decided along with the factory to move into original designs and stop selling clones on their respective websites and created CKF in order to distance itself from its past. I think its a good thing they are moving in a different direction. I just think this particular knife was a little too flashy for the ckf name so they did it as a venom.

 

[Hackenslash]

I'm not too compelled by the New Concept, apart from the autolock (which is a negative) it seems fairly vanilla and replaceable to me. I do own a couple of CKF knives which may or may not have been designed by a counterfeiter, and probably made in a shop that produced counterfeits...but I'm not about to throw them in the trash. I bought those knives with the best knowledge I had at the time and I'm content with that.

In terms of the person/persons/designers/manufacturers behind the Kevin John name, I guess I'm happy to see them spend their talents NOT ripping off others. It doesn't change the fact that they did spend significant time ripping off others. They owe the knife community a mea culpa, although that would never happen. Personally, I'll refrain from buying more CKF or any Kevin John branded stuff until I feel they've offered something back to the industry they've sucked life out of for so long.

I'll giggle a little when I see the counterfeit New Concepts show up on the import sites...

 

[PURPLEDC]

I'm not too compelled by the New Concept, apart from the autolock (which is a negative) it seems fairly vanilla and replaceable to me. I do own a couple of CKF knives which may or may not have been designed by a counterfeiter, and probably made in a shop that produced counterfeits...but I'm not about to throw them in the trash. I bought those knives with the best knowledge I had at the time and I'm content with that.

In terms of the person/persons/designers/manufacturers behind the Kevin John name, I guess I'm happy to see them spend their talents NOT ripping off others. It doesn't change the fact that they did spend significant time ripping off others. They owe the knife community a mea culpa, although that would never happen. Personally, I'll refrain from buying more CKF or any Kevin John branded stuff until I feel they've offered something back to the industry they've sucked life out of for so long.

I'll giggle a little when I see the counterfeit New Concepts show up on the import sites...

The import sites were selling them before CKF or Bladehq. Its been out for about 2 years now. That may not stop another company from trying to make them. But so far I have not seen it. If it does happen I bet it will be taken down a couple notches and simplified.

 

[evilgreg]

I'm not too compelled by the New Concept, apart from the autolock (which is a negative) it seems fairly vanilla and replaceable to me. I do own a couple of CKF knives which may or may not have been designed by a counterfeiter, and probably made in a shop that produced counterfeits...but I'm not about to throw them in the trash. I bought those knives with the best knowledge I had at the time and I'm content with that.

In terms of the person/persons/designers/manufacturers behind the Kevin John name, I guess I'm happy to see them spend their talents NOT ripping off others. It doesn't change the fact that they did spend significant time ripping off others. They owe the knife community a mea culpa, although that would never happen. Personally, I'll refrain from buying more CKF or any Kevin John branded stuff until I feel they've offered something back to the industry they've sucked life out of for so long.

I'll giggle a little when I see the counterfeit New Concepts show up on the import sites...

Given your qualms about their unethical past misdeeds, I assume you'd also never buy a Strider then (given his whole "forced by the court to admit he's a dishonorable dirtbag" history)?

 

[Hackenslash]

The import sites were selling them before CKF or Bladehq. Its been out for about 2 years now. That may not stop another company from trying to make them. But so far I have not seen it. If it does happen I bet it will be taken down a couple notches and simplified.

Oh, I'm sure. I remember seeing a lot of "Venom 1" clones last time I looked. They may "look" the same, but that's where the similarities will end.

Also reading my post I'd like to clarify; I'm not lumping CKF into the same pool with Kevin John. I know CKF began to distance themselves from their clone origins some time ago. I haven't been in love with any of their recent offerings at the prices they now go for. I got my MORRF 1 and Gratch when CKFs were a much better bargain. Now, I'd rather drop 5 bills on an Olamic, or a Reate collab.

The next step for CKF is to have Stateside service and support and collaborate with some known manufacturers/designers like Reate, WE and Kizer. That would bring them full circle from their origins.

 

[Hackenslash]

Given your qualms about their unethical past misdeeds, I assume you'd also never buy a Strider then (given his whole "forced by the court to admit he's a dishonorable dirtbag" history)?

I own one Strider. It's a heavily used one that I bought here on the Exchange. I consider myself a collector and felt I was incomplete without some kind of Strider in my collection...and you know what?...I think it's a great knife. They're wildly over priced for the sum of the parts, but I'd love to pick up a PT CC some day. If it had a clip, I think it might end up being one of my favorite EDCs. That being said, I won't buy another. This isn't some huge moral high ground on my part, I just happen to think there are better people and places to spend my knife dollars. "Knife Morality" isn't the only factor that affects my purchases, but it is one of them.

Now, if Strider ever did a collaboration with ZT, I'd find myself in a very untenable situation. At that point I'd be petitioning Mick to issue a blanket apology to the knife industry, or hold my nose while I clicked on "add to cart" .

 

[Armadew]

Nice looking knife. Shame it's made by a scumbag.

 

[AmosPaul]

It doesn't matter what kind of do-dad or gee-gaw you put on a frame lock, you can't disguise the fact that it is not a lock. A frame lock is a spring.

 

[evilgreg]

It doesn't matter what kind of do-dad or gee-gaw you put on a frame lock, you can't disguise the fact that it is not a lock. A frame lock is a spring.

If locking mechanisms that use a spring to keep themselves in position to keep the blade from closing aren't locks, then that rules out:

* the liner lock
* the axis lock
* the compression lock
* the ball bearing lock
* the arc lock
* the tri-ad lock
* the lockback
* the button lock

. . . and so on. Pray tell, what does constitute a lock in your "springs don't count" world?

 

[NJBillK]

I find what he has added quite valuable. Change my impression of the knife entirely from "knife with a gimmicky locking 'system'" to "knife with a gimmicky locking 'system' made by a notorious knockoff maker"

Thanks for pointing it out Blues Bender. :thumbup:

Bingo.
Not all of us only want to heap praise when we see something new.
While it may be a benefit to some that look the other way, some choose to not support the maker/designer regardless of the added "novelty", "gimmicks", or actual "functional design implements".

 

[bodog]

Oh, I'm sure. I remember seeing a lot of "Venom 1" clones last time I looked. They may "look" the same, but that's where the similarities will end.

Also reading my post I'd like to clarify; I'm not lumping CKF into the same pool with Kevin John. I know CKF began to distance themselves from their clone origins some time ago. I haven't been in love with any of their recent offerings at the prices they now go for. I got my MORRF 1 and Gratch when CKFs were a much better bargain. Now, I'd rather drop 5 bills on an Olamic, or a Reate collab.

The next step for CKF is to have Stateside service and support and collaborate with some known manufacturers/designers like Reate, WE and Kizer. That would bring them full circle from their origins.

Reate is to Adai as CKF is to Kevin John, essentially. You're good with Reate but not CKF?

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me at all, like at all, if Kizer and WE were part of the clone culture at one point and changed their names or obfuscated their designers and engineers and factory locations the same as Reate and CKF did.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Reate is to Adai as CKF is to Kevin John, essentially. You're good with Reate but not CKF?

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me at all, like at all, if Kizer and WE were part of the clone culture at one point and changed their names or obfuscated their designers and engineers and factory locations.

If it stopped at all. All three companies do oem work. And I doubt they research each design before going ahead with it. Thats how we ended up with district 9 knives with rotoblocks. The chinese dont have to follow US law. They just cant send anything here that violates it.

 

[Hackenslash]

Reate is to Adai as CKF is to Kevin John, essentially. You're good with Reate but not CKF?

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me at all, like at all, if Kizer and WE were part of the clone culture at one point and changed their names or obfuscated their designers and engineers and factory locations the same as Reate and CKF did.

Reate has done more to distance themselves from possible/probable clone roots than CKF. As I said earlier, if CKF can establish service and support network, cooperate with legit designers/manufacturers and become more active and transparent to the industry, they'll be where Reate and Kizer are now. WE is a huge question mark to me. I have several WE knives, bought with the best knowledge that I had at the time, and probably will buy some more. I don't know a whole lot about where they came from, other than some connection to Qtrmstr alleged by folks who seem to know. I'll give WE the benefit of the doubt until they prove they don't deserve it.

I fully accept the fact that the belle of the ball imports of today may have been the cloners and counterfeiters of yesterday. I'm willing to accept a desire to change in anything, whether an individual or a corporation. I'm at a wait and see point with CKF, I'm further along with Reate and WE.

Matters in life are rarely as black and white as we might like them to be.

 

[Hackenslash]

If it stopped at all. All three companies do oem work. And I doubt they research each design before going ahead with it. Thats how we ended up with district 9 knives with rotoblocks. The chinese dont have to follow US law. They just cant send anything here that violates it.

I have one of those original D9 branded knives with a Rotolok. I'm not sure if it's a point of pride or shame. At this point, I guess it's just a part of history.

 

[AmosPaul]

GCE; in most of your examples the spring itself is not the lock, it only serves to actuate the lock.

If locking mechanisms that use a spring to keep themselves in position to keep the blade from closing aren't locks, then that rules out:

* the liner lock
* the axis lock
* the compression lock
* the ball bearing lock
* the arc lock
* the tri-ad lock
* the lockback
* the button lock

. . . and so on. Pray tell, what does constitute a lock in your "springs don't count" world?

 

[evilgreg]

GCE; in most of your examples the spring itself is not the lock, it only serves to actuate the lock.

If I place a brick to hold a door open, it is both a brick and a doorstop. Similarly, the lock bar on a framelock is both a spring, and the lock.

If you're unwilling to rely on a spring, you're going to have a difficult time finding a locking mechanism you like. I just took apart a tri-ad lock knife this morning, and it most definitely included a spring that keeps the lock bar engaged, for example.