VG-10 vs. S30V

orthogonal1 said:
I was under the impression that S30V carbides were of a size comparable to those of normal D2, which was why the edge it tends to take is rougher.
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No sir, mete is correct. The carbides are smaller.
 
akadave2 said:
I have been alternating between my Spyderco Delica and my BM Opportunist as my EDC for the last few weeks. Im finding that the VG-10 of the Delica is holding an edge better than the S30V of the Opportunist.

I sharpened both on a Sharpmaker to a hair popping edge. It seems that the Opportunist loses that edge the fastest. It should be the other way around (all things being equal) right?
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That's because VG-10 is just better. S30V is pure marketing and hype.
 
Both are good -- make that great - steels that seem to have more 'bite' that other high-end steels such as ATS-34. S30V seems to me to take a finer edge than VG-10, and sharpens more easily, but in actual use both perform extremely well.
 
Outdoors Fanatic said:
That's because VG-10 is just better. S30V is pure marketing and hype.
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In what ways is the performance of S30V pure hype? I really am curious, considering the edges on my Para and UKPK outlast my 440C, AUS8, VG10, 13C27, 1095 and 8Cr13MoV knives, are stable under very thin edges, have never shown any corrosion during my EDC use which includes being soaked heavily in sweat for hours at a time and food prep, and easily take hair whittling sharp edges. What exactly do you look for in a knife steel, that these attributes would be unfavorable to you?
 
Nothing scientific here, but in terms of sharpness, edge holding, ease of sharpening, VG-10 have always seemed better than S30V to me.

As for large fixed blade, in theory it shouldn't be so good but my large fallkniven (A1,A2) perform actually pretty well (althougth edge has a slight tendancy to roll).
 
Hawkings said:
Not having anything to do with the 2 steels. But EWWW:eek:
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I thought it went without saying that I wash my blades thoroughly before and after food prep, but apparently I should of specified. ;)

Ravaillac said:
Nothing scientific here, but in terms of sharpness, edge holding, ease of sharpening, VG-10 have always seemed better than S30V to me.
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Interesting. What materials do you usually cut and what knives in the two steels have you drawn your observations from?
 
S30 is far from my favorite steel but I believe that a lot of these type complaints are due to the real stubborn wire edge that S30 is notorious for.

That could explain why there are such discrepancies between knives, and owners who seemingly get opposite results.

It's a tough steel when HT'ed correctly. I can't believe all of these knives are incorrectly treated. I can believe that in some of the cases, people are having a wire edge that breaks off finally during use, and there goes their "hair shaving abilities", while others whittle hardwoods, cut cardboard and still have great edges.

Just my unscientific opinion. Joe
 
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Does anyone have a strength and wear resistance chat for any of these stainless steels?.
Ive seen others yet not any on VG-10 or S30v.
 
orthogonal1 said:
I was under the impression that S30V carbides were of a size comparable to those of normal D2, which was why the edge it tends to take is rougher.
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They are not anything like the size of D2 its cpm meaning smaller more even carbides.D2 has some big carbides.
Does anyonje have a chart on the strength wear resistance of these and other stainless.
 
In my experience they are comparable. I find that VG-10 tends to take on a slight gray patina over time so I would say S30V is probably slightly more resistent to corrosion. In terms of cutting performance, I don't think there is anything to choose between them assuming good heat treatment.
 
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Outdoors Fanatic said:
That's because VG-10 is just better. S30V is pure marketing and hype.
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To Quote Bill Harsey who designed the "Yarborough" issued to the Special Forces that uses S30V:

"Dear Reaper, Thanks for showing the Yarborough knife that I designed and Chris Reeve knives manufactures. Chris Reeve Knives (CRK) has world class customer service and will deliver when stated upon placing an order. The marking of the name Yarborough and a serial no. on the blade are unique and exclusive to Army Special Forces. The same knife without these markings is available for sale to the general public. In case one might have a question about this, these conditions are stated in the orders issued by USASOC concerning the making and selling of this knife. CRK can direct anyone military or civilian to the proper purchase point for this knife. This knife uses a steel called CPM S-30V, it's a particle metal steel made by Crucible Steel in Syracuse NY. The Yarborough knife is the first ever application of this extreme high strength steel. Chris and I had tested this steel for one year before using it on your knife. This steel costs almost double what the next best steel does and is much more difficult to manufacture at every step. The reason we chose this stuff is because of the very high pry-bar strength, great initial sharpness, edge holding and high stain resistance. Thanks again for showing the knife. Bill"

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-688.html

So that's just "pure marketing and hype" on S30V?
 
BigE said:
To Quote Bill Harsey who designed the "Yarborough" issued to the Special Forces that uses S30V:

"Dear Reaper, Thanks for showing the Yarborough knife that I designed and Chris Reeve knives manufactures. Chris Reeve Knives (CRK) has world class customer service and will deliver when stated upon placing an order. The marking of the name Yarborough and a serial no. on the blade are unique and exclusive to Army Special Forces. The same knife without these markings is available for sale to the general public. In case one might have a question about this, these conditions are stated in the orders issued by USASOC concerning the making and selling of this knife. CRK can direct anyone military or civilian to the proper purchase point for this knife. This knife uses a steel called CPM S-30V, it's a particle metal steel made by Crucible Steel in Syracuse NY. The Yarborough knife is the first ever application of this extreme high strength steel. Chris and I had tested this steel for one year before using it on your knife. This steel costs almost double what the next best steel does and is much more difficult to manufacture at every step. The reason we chose this stuff is because of the very high pry-bar strength, great initial sharpness, edge holding and high stain resistance. Thanks again for showing the knife. Bill"

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-688.html

So that's just "pure marketing and hype" on S30V?
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I see you haven't been around here all that long, so instead of questioning the conclusion you arrived at simply by reading one makers' post about his own knife, I'll let you do a little reading.;)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=543407

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=384825

http://knifetests.com/ChrisReeveGreenBeretDTest.html

http://knifetests.com/chrisreevetestresponse.html

http://cutleryscience.com/reviews/green_beret.html

Regards,
3G
 
orthogonal1 said:
CPM affects distribution. Where is the proof as to size?
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At the risk of citing as a source the folks who make the stuff, I will offer:
The powder is screened and loaded into steel containers which are then evacuated and sealed. The sealed containers are hot isostatically pressed (HIP) at temperatures approximately the same as those used for forging. The extremely high pressure used in HIP consolidates the powder by bonding the individual particles into a fully dense compact. The resultant microstructure is homogeneous and fine grained and, in the high carbon grades, exhibits a uniform distribution of tiny carbides. Although CPM steels can be used in the as-HIP condition, the compacts normally undergo the same standard mill processing used for conventionally melted ingots, resulting in improved toughness.
​
http://www.crucibleservice.com/products/CPM/index.cfm

This is in line with information on particle metallurgy from other sources that I have read elsewhere.
 
The Mastiff said:
It's a tough steel when HT'ed correctly. I can't believe all of these knives are incorrectly treated. I can believe that in some of the cases, people are having a wire edge that breaks off finally during use, and there goes their "hair shaving abilities", while others whittle hardwoods, cut cardboard and still have great edges.

Just my unscientific opinion. Joe
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When I attributed the difference in performance of my two S30V knives to the heat treatment, I did not necessarily mean to imply the less favored one was heat treated incorrectly. While my opinion is just a wild guess, I think that one of the knives is intentionally heat treated to a lower hardness to increase its notch toughness, and the lower hardness makes it a little tougher to sharpen and gives it a little less edge holding ability. (Increasing the angle of the final honing passes about 5 degrees a side seems to help sharpening this one quite a bit.)

The recent BAD knife by Busse is an example of the same maker deliberately changing the heat treatment of the same steel (INFI in both, no S30V in the AD/BAD) to get different properties out of it.
 
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3Guardsmen said:
I see you haven't been around here all that long, so instead of questioning the conclusion you arrived at simply by reading one makers' post about his own knife, I'll let you do a little reading.;)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=543407

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=384825

http://knifetests.com/ChrisReeveGreenBeretDTest.html

http://knifetests.com/chrisreevetestresponse.html

http://cutleryscience.com/reviews/green_beret.html

Regards,
3G
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Using your logic, I would have to question your conclusions in regards to s30v steel, as they come from one maker.

:D
 
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