VG-10 vs. S30V

I think you said that backwards.
I think you meant to say that "the grain structure of PM steel is not always finer than non-PM steel."

I think that the grain structure of a PM steel is finer than that of the same alloy made by non-PM methods.
 
Thank you knarfeng for the correction.

Maybe there is more carbides at the edge than VG10,so if we push cut harder material,like hard wood,dry bamboo with S30V blades,the carbides fall out and lose shapness.I don't know,it's just a wild guess.

In my experience,when push-cutting harder materials,M2(Benchmade),VG10,ATS34/55(Spyderco) blades don't hold the edge as long as harder carbon steel blades.I attribute them to the hardness and carbides.Just a guess.
 
I was under the impression that those pictures showed concentration, i.e. distribution, and not actual grain size.
 
jdowell said:
Using your logic, I would have to question your conclusions in regards to s30v steel, as they come from one maker.

:D
Click to expand...

LOL:D I guess so. I was just trying to point out that BigE's example of 'tough as nails' S30V wasn't exactly the best one.;)

Regards,
3G
 
That's true. I was just having fun.

Isn't it great that people from all over the world can get together and nit-pick something like steel?!
 
I've got a Kershaw Avalanche in S30V and a Kershaw Lahar in VG10. Both pop hair and I use a Spyderco Sharpmaker on both. Both are great. I don't let either one get very dull so I don't know which holds better but they both are very sharp and coming from the same company perhaps they are heat treated the same and have similar grinds. Just for what it's worth.
 
3Guardsmen said:
I see you haven't been around here all that long, so instead of questioning the conclusion you arrived at simply by reading one makers' post about his own knife, I'll let you do a little reading.;)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=543407

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=384825

http://knifetests.com/ChrisReeveGreenBeretDTest.html

http://knifetests.com/chrisreevetestresponse.html

http://cutleryscience.com/reviews/green_beret.html

Regards,
3G
Click to expand...

Just because I've not been on BladeForums for long doesn't mean anything. It seems alot of people (like you) think that your number of posts here has everything to do with your experience with knives. I simply stated what I've read on the link and asked a question. I was implying something also by that question. I guess you didn't get the jest of what I was implying, so I'll drop it there. I also have read many of those links before, BTW. Maybe you should have digged deeper by asking what I really meant instead of drawing your own shallow conclusions from the number of posts I have on Bladeforums and taking the one question I asked to be a direct statement of conclusion. :yawn:
 
I really think heat treatment plays the biggest part in which in a better steel. They both seem to be very good steels for folders depending on the heat treat given to them. I do think certain makers need to improve their heat treat with certain steels. I think 30V is a fine steel when heat treated properly when it is not it is a pretty lousy steel.
 
akadave2 said:
I have been alternating between my Spyderco Delica and my BM Opportunist as my EDC for the last few weeks. Im finding that the VG-10 of the Delica is holding an edge better than the S30V of the Opportunist.

I sharpened both on a Sharpmaker to a hair popping edge. It seems that the Opportunist loses that edge the fastest. It should be the other way around (all things being equal) right?
Click to expand...


Heat treatment is everything, I have 3 knives in S30V and their performance is all very different. When I first heard of S30V it was said to be the first stainless steels made for cutlery, with great wear resistance but still be relatively easy to sharpen. Of the 3, kershaw, benchmade, and spyderco the only one that "fit the bill" was spyderco. Kershaw seems to be the hardest giving the best edge retention but is the hardest to sharpen and tends to not do well when in contact with hard materials. Spyderco seems to be right in the middle not being to hard nor to soft, edge retention is still high but it is very easy to sharpen and gets the sharpest, yet still retaining a good level of tuffness. Benchmade I am sad to say seems to be the softest with (like you said) about the same edge retention as spyderco VG-10. I think you would be more pleased with spyderco or kershaw's S30V, then I think you would see the difference you are looking for.
 
Ive always found the whole "Keeps an edge AND is easy to sharpen" notion to be at odds with each other. I mean, edge holding to my mind means it resists abrasion that would dull the knife. Sharpening is an abrasive act. Am I missing something?
 
3Guardsmen said:
I see you haven't been around here all that long, so instead of questioning the conclusion you arrived at simply by reading one makers' post about his own knife, I'll let you do a little reading.;)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=543407

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=384825

http://knifetests.com/ChrisReeveGreenBeretDTest.html

http://knifetests.com/chrisreevetestresponse.html

http://cutleryscience.com/reviews/green_beret.html

Regards,
3G
Click to expand...


Thanks for reminding that the Chris Reeve Green Beret in CPM-S30V, is the biggest rip-off in the Knife Industry ever. It's a 300 dollars paper weight... :barf:
 
akadave2 said:
Ive always found the whole "Keeps an edge AND is easy to sharpen" notion to be at odds with each other. I mean, edge holding to my mind means it resists abrasion that would dull the knife. Sharpening is an abrasive act. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Hi,

Yes you would be correct. Everything is a trade off. Harder steel means a more brittle edge that will be harder to sharpen. But it will tend to retain it's edge longer than a softer, tougher, easier to sharpen edge. You need to determine how the edge is to be used to choose the correct steel.

While you sharpen your knife by abrasion, it would be very unlikely that you would be able to wear the edge out by it, using only muscle power. You would sharpen it long before it got to that point. The small cracks, chips and rolled edge that occurs before frictional wear becomes noticeable would cause you to reach for the stones before it got to that point.

dalee
 
akadave2 said:
Ive always found the whole "Keeps an edge AND is easy to sharpen" notion to be at odds with each other. I mean, edge holding to my mind means it resists abrasion that would dull the knife. Sharpening is an abrasive act. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Don't forget geometry. I have a very thin full flat knife in CPM10V that you can sharpen in 5 to 10 strokes on a dmt stone, but it holds it's edge very long. I have another in M2 HSS that is the same way. Dulling can often be caused by rolling and deformation of the edge also.
 
orthogonal1 said:
I was under the impression that those pictures showed concentration, i.e. distribution, and not actual grain size.
Click to expand...

And it was my understanding that those were photo micrographs that show actual grain size.

I believe one of our staff metallurgists at work has worked with PM steels on a prior job. He is on travel this week, but should be back Monday the 13th. I will ask him then. I might also try a couple of the other metallurgists who might know, even though they have not directly worked with the stuff. Then I would not have to resurrect what next Monday will be a dead thread.

Best,
Frank
 
Outdoors Fanatic said:
Thanks for reminding that the Chris Reeve Green Beret in CPM-S30V, is the biggest rip-off in the Knife Industry ever. It's a 300 dollars paper weight... :barf:
Click to expand...

Oh man. So the edge retention on yours wasn't up to par with your other S30V knives? Did you talk to Chris about it?
 
BigE said:
Just because I've not been on BladeForums for long doesn't mean anything. It seems alot of people (like you) think that your number of posts here has everything to do with your experience with knives. I simply stated what I've read on the link and asked a question. I was implying something also by that question. I guess you didn't get the jest of what I was implying, so I'll drop it there. I also have read many of those links before, BTW. Maybe you should have digged deeper by asking what I really meant instead of drawing your own shallow conclusions from the number of posts I have on Bladeforums and taking the one question I asked to be a direct statement of conclusion. :yawn:
Click to expand...

I don't base much on post count. I did notice your join date and assumed (which I probably shouldn't have done) that you were fairly new to the knife game. I'm sorry for jumping to that conclusion. As far as missing what you were implying, I guess I did that as well. I'm sorry about that.

Now that those issues have been addressed, whould you mind sharing what your implication really was? Thanks.

Regards,
3G
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top