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I can't think of any democracies that became monarchies, but democracies have become dictatorships (Germany in the 1930's), and socialist countries (Western Europe). I believe that the US is struggling with socialism now. People have realized that they can vote themselves money from the government. Unfortunately, they don't realize it comes from the taxpayer and a lot of those who want the government handouts may not even pay taxes.
 
A lot of my military friends do not share the same political beliefs. The military is just as divided it seems as the rest of our country is. We need to be united as a country to be strong not divided. Politics divide people. I really think it is time to throw the two party system away. We should vote for individuals not parties.
 
Democracy is one of the worst forms of government there is. Democracy is, in effect, a dictatorship ruled by a mob, a mob which is fickle and changes it's mind more often than it changes its drawers. At least with a monarchy or even a dictatorship there's consistancy.

No, a Constitutional Republic is the way to go. Problem is, and I forgot who said it (Thomas Paine I think) that a CR can only work when it's a nation populated by a responsible and moral people. Unfortunately, the socialists have bred a couple generations of people that believe that they don't have to be either. In fact, they believe it's a virtue to be neither. And therein lies the problem.

A Constitutional Republic can only work if the people understand it's up to them not the government, to make it a good place to live, and take the personal responsibility to make it so. The majority of people can't even bring themselves to vote, much less take responsibility for how the place where they live is kept.
 
Seahawk said:
I can't think of any democracies that became monarchies, but democracies have become dictatorships (Germany in the 1930's), and socialist countries (Western Europe).
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Ah hah! That's what I was thinking! Monarchy didn't seem like the right word I was looking for. I could have looked in my notes from class, but the class was last year and I'm not even down at school this weekend. Thanks for the correction. As a side note, a lot of interesting points have been made here.
 
dl351 said:
Ah hah! That's what I was thinking! Monarchy didn't seem like the right word I was looking for. I could have looked in my notes from class, but the class was last year and I'm not even down at school this weekend. Thanks for the correction. As a side note, a lot of interesting points have been made here.
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I thought Rome went from a Monarchy to a Republic to a Democracy and finally back Monarchy again… And then it clasped .. But If you think about it, with exception of a Constitutional Republic all other forms of government are, or eventually lead to an Oligarchy…. The way I look at it, you can either have a Free Constitutional republic or be ruled over by an oligarch… Even in a dictatorship a dictator has his council, as does a king in a monarchy ..

The Constitution, Bill of Rights are suppose to restrain the government. All the founders were doing were affirming natural rights thought to be granted by God, Their intention was pretty clear in the Declaration of Independence ,as well, .. We hold these truths to be self-evident: That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

This is vary clear, as are the Bill Of Rights The founders are probably spinning in their graves with enough force right now to power every major city in America perhaps even the world . We have to have the supreme court tell us that the second amendment applies to the individual right when the amendment clearly states it. Our government has become more socialized and the people brainwashed into thinking this is a Democracy, I here it every time I watch the news Democracy, our Democracy, this makes me sick.. The founders couldn’t stand Democracy and hated it as much as Monarchy. I remember something to the effect when Benjamin Franklin was asked at the constitutional convention 1787 what have you given us? , and his response was “a republic if you can keep it“. I hope we can, but it looks like were loosing it…

I leave you Fellows with a few quotes from the founders…..


“ That government is best which governs least“… Thomas Paine…


“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” Thomas Jefferson


“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Benjamin Franklin

“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.” John Adams
 
I've spent the past few months scared out of my wits. If Obama is elected it will be by people who have no idea what they are voting for. Sure, a lot of people actually agree with him, and that's fine because this is America and everybody is entitled to their opinion. But I've talked to a few Obama supporters and asked them the tough questions, and when they hear what he's proposing, they immediately rethink their position. They support the idea of hope and change, not pseudo-socialist domestic policy. Redistribution of wealth scares the living daylights out of me, and to be honest, I would probably end up benefiting from it. But I couldn't live with the fact that while i enjoy my new car thanks to "middle class" tax breaks, "rich" people are paying ridiculously high taxes. November 4th may be the saddest day of my life so far.
 
[QUOTE
No, a Constitutional Republic is the way to go. Problem is, and I forgot who said it (Thomas Paine I think) that a CR can only work when it's a nation populated by a responsible and moral people. ..[/QUOTE]

Hey, CPL . I think that was John Adams, I may be wrong though.
 
With respect to you folks, I find it incredible that the military are politicized (sic) so much in your country.

I believe the mass media in your country called a senior commander "General Betrayus (sic), How fucked up is that? Totally Disgusting for us Brits.


9/11 the (Tony Blair, my country, and I'm so proud we were there for you).

The Brits are short of hardware in our war zones, pure and simple, the folks back home know that. It wouldn't be tolerated in the Police, Fire or Paramedic services.

Forget your USA partisan arguing, the world and Brits are with you and need need you.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_VktQBj1Dm4

Not SAS but Ship S troopers (regardless of what Ch4 say) of the 8 man team, 4 went in to retrieve the body of Johnny Spann. The guy shooting the GPMG from the unfortunately died in a hangliding accident not more than a year later. SGT Scruff McDuff.

"We" are one.

At least that's what the Brits hope for.
Every Man An Emperor.

"Scream your heart out"..........
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=F9LVq80oBNE
 
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One thing I have learned in my years of following politics is this: If you elect the Democrat candidate it will never be as bad as the extreme right-wing says it's gonna be, and if you elect the Republican candidate it will never be as bad as the extreme left-wing says it's gonna be. IMO, what we have running in this election is a wolf in sheep's clothing and the wolf. Neither of them are Constitutional candidates and at the end of their one-time 4 year term I don't think you will be able to tell the difference, no matter which one gets elected. Now that is sad to say.

And this thread proves (so far) that you can have a political discussion / debate on a public forum and remain civil. All that is required is everyone respects everyone else.
 
R.A.T. said:
One thing I have learned in my years of following politics is this: If you elect the Democrat candidate it will never be as bad as the extreme right-wing says it's gonna be, and if you elect the Republican candidate it will never be as bad as the extreme left-wing says it's gonna be. IMO, what we have running in this election is a wolf in sheep's clothing and the wolf. Neither of them are Constitutional candidates and at the end of their one-time 4 year term I don't think you will be able to tell the difference, no matter which one gets elected. Now that is sad to say.
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Exactly ,
 
Jeff, normally I would agree that their isn't much difference between candidates from either of the two major political parties. However, if the Democrats sweep the White House and both houses of congress, I think the Obama, Reid, and Pelosi will do a lot of damage to the country.

As for redistributing the wealth, I can't think of any place that is has worked. Take a look at an Indian reservation. The government gives them money and the tribes still have alot of problems. In many cases they are a broken people.
 
Seahawk said:
As for redistributing the wealth, I can't think of any place that is has worked.
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I've always thought of wealth redistribution in terms of taking from the employed and giving it to the unemployed. In light of the recent bailout(s), I am being forced to reconsider that opinion. It seems that no matter who is on the receiving end, it isn't me (a working stiff gettin' squeezed from both ends). :rolleyes:
 
Seahawk said:
As for redistributing the wealth, I can't think of any place that is has worked. Take a look at an Indian reservation. The government gives them money and the tribes still have alot of problems. In many cases they are a broken people.
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Look at Russia, Cuba, and almost anyother communist country.
 
How is giving anyone making under 250,000 a tax break redistributing the wealth? I consider it helping those of us who need it most right now. Anyone making over that amount will not suffer very much from an increase in their taxes and the shrinking middle class will get a little more breathing room.
 
gottahaveit27 said:
How is giving anyone making under 250,000 a tax break redistributing the wealth? I consider it helping those of us who need it most right now. Anyone making over that amount will not suffer very much from an increase in their taxes and the shrinking middle class will get a little more breathing room.
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If taxes go up for one group of people while being lowered for another, it is redistribution of wealth. It's easy to think it's okay if you are the one getting the break but it isn't any fairer than if the roles were reversed. All of the promises of tax breaks are BS anyway because someone is going to pay for the bailouts and it isn't going to happen by giving tax breaks. Like it or not, the next president will be forced to admit this truth shortly after taking office.
 
Ok. Then big businesses have been participating in redistribution of wealth, along with with the current administration for the last 8 years. Big tax breaks for large corporations have been the soupe du jour. We have not all been taxed the same :grumpy:
 
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