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Besides which...redistributing the wealth is just rhetoric devised to make this concept seem like something it isn't. WEALTH will neither be gained or lost by a policy of higher taxes for those who make over 250,000 dollars.
 
Many smaller businesses will be helped (many in this country make under 250,000). We do support small business in this country, don't we? Maybe we should continue outsourcing jobs at the expense of our economy and prosperity? :mad:
 
“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” Thomas Jefferson

One wonders what Thomas Jefferson would have thought of touch screen voting machines.

“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Benjamin Franklin

No questions there. ;)
 
Many smaller businesses will be helped (many in this country make under 250,000). We do support small business in this country, don't we? Maybe we should continue outsourcing jobs at the expense of our economy and prosperity? :mad:

A business that makes $251,000 a year is still a very small business.

Well to do people already pay a LOT more than the rest of us. There is no reason to let jealousy into the equation and charge them more. Fair share doesnt mean, I pay less, you pay more.
 
Thought this was interesting.

Let Them Fail

By Amit Ghate

Everywhere today politicians are blaring that they must save America’s financial institutions, alleging catastrophic risk to the economy were any to fail. Paulson and the entire Bush administration, in a discernible panic, are now pouring $700 billion into the big banks, having already bailed out AIG, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Bear Stearns to the tune of $300 billion.

Capitalism doesn’t work, they declare, but fortunately the government is here to rescue us.

Sadly, they have it all backwards. The credit crisis is just more evidence that whenever the government supplants the free market and attempts to “manage,” i.e., control, the economy--disaster ensues.

Overlooked here is that in a free market business failures are not just normal, they’re crucial for the best products and ideas to emerge. Most restaurants fail in their first three years because customers have other preferences. Many mom-and-pop grocers go out of business because Walmart offers better selection and lower prices. Even whole industries--think typewriters, 8-tracks and horses and buggies--vanish because new inventions and competitors arise.

None of these failures are a problem, nor do they threaten the system. On the contrary, they are an inherent part of the progress which only capitalism makes possible.

So why would failures in the financial industry be any different?

Typically, the answer given is also the one used to rationalize the creation of the Federal Reserve, the FDIC, the FSLIC and any number of other government agencies and regulations intended to “manage” the banking system: financial firms carry systemic risks for the nation’s economy and therefore can’t be allowed to fail. As evidence, bank failures from 1870 to 1913 (pre-Fed) are cited, followed by the assertion that their number was simply “unacceptable.”

But every business forms part of the economic system and thus has “systemic” impact. If Microsoft were to fail, thousands of suppliers, customers, and workers would be affected, as would their customers, suppliers, workers, etc. Yet this would be no reason to bail them out. We know that new businesses would arise to fill the void, better for having learned from Microsoft’s mistakes.

And as a historical fact, the U.S. economy during the period 1870 to 1913 grew significantly faster than it did after the Fed was established. True, there were many bank failures in this period, but there were also many business failures in general: banks were actually less likely to fail than were other businesses. The number of bank failures speaks to the dynamism of the period, not to anything fragile in the financial system. Precisely because market mechanisms were permitted to work, depositors, creditors and counterparties all kept a close eye on banks, monitoring leverage and withdrawing funds at the first sign of problems.

When the free market functions--and failure is allowed--people become viscerally aware of risk, with the result that they voluntarily assume less of it.

Conversely, when the government tries to “manage” the economy--when the consequences of risky behavior are shifted from self-interested actors to taxpayers, as was done by the creation of the Fed and its various insurance programs, or when weak financial firms are propped up rather than being allowed to fail--people take on risks they would not otherwise. Banks are less careful, depositors no longer evaluate their institutions, and risks are concealed and amplified until they become catastrophic.

So pre-Fed we had runs on banks, some undoubtedly severe--but with the Fed we’ve had the Great Depression, the S&L meltdown and now perhaps the greatest worldwide credit crisis ever.

An analogy may be helpful here. Historically certain types of forests naturally experienced frequent, but small, wildfires. Because their frequency kept deadwood at a minimum, the fires never grew into large conflagrations. However, when government forestry services instituted fire suppression policies, they eliminated most small fires, but caused deadwood and other fuel to accumulate. When at last a fire came that could not be suppressed, it grew into a devastating inferno.

Learning from their errors, forestry services have abandoned fire suppression policies.

It’s time for our government to do likewise. First, by immediately abandoning its bailout binge, and then by phasing out all of the economic controls by which it attempts to “manage” the financial system--from the FDIC to the Federal Reserve itself. Nothing less can reestablish the freedom essential for a sound and vibrant economy.

Amit Ghate is a guest writer for the Ayn Rand Center for Individual Rights. The Ayn Rand Center is a division of the Ayn Rand Institute and promotes the philosophy of Ayn Rand, author of “Atlas Shrugged” and “The Fountainhead.”





Copyright © 2008 Ayn Rand® Center for Individual Rights. All rights reserved.

Op-eds, press releases and letters to the editor produced by the Ayn Rand Center for Individual Rights are submitted to hundreds of newspapers, radio stations and Web sites across the United States and abroad, and are made possible thanks to voluntary contributions.
 
All of the promises of tax breaks are BS anyway. . .

Know what?

All presidential promises are BS.
The president can't do a damn thing unless congress and the senate go along with it.

The people (and I'm not accusing any one here) who vote based on promises made in a campaign, are almost the worst kind of fool, superseded only by those that vote party no matter what.
 
Know what?

All presidential promises are BS.
The president can't do a damn thing unless congress and the senate go along with it.

The people (and I'm not accusing any one here) who vote based on promises made in a campaign, are almost the worst kind of fool, superseded only by those that vote party no matter what.

The democrats MAY get a 60-40 advantage in the senate, and a similar ratio in the house. It's not likely, but if they do, we may see some of Obama's plans implemented. There's no way in hell many of the things hes saying will ever go into effect, so I'm not that worried.
Justice Kennedy is also 88, meaning Obama will get to pick the next supreme court justice if Kennedy croaks. He's a swing vote, and I have no doubt the next justice under Obama would be further to the left. We may see a complete Democratic monopoly of all three branches of the Federal Government. That's kind of dangerous, no matter what party is in control
 
How is giving anyone making under 250,000 a tax break redistributing the wealth? I consider it helping those of us who need it most right now. Anyone making over that amount will not suffer very much from an increase in their taxes and the shrinking middle class will get a little more breathing room.

It is not as simple as giving a tax break to those who make less than an arbitrary amount (more on that later). First, the actual tax rate is not going to be cut. Obama will allow the current temporary tax cuts to expire so that everybody's tax rates go up. Then the Democrats will put in place tax credits.

The difference between lowering tax rates and giving a tax credit are important. The Democrats have said the the tax breaks don't benefit the poor. This is because the lowest 40% of wage earners in the country don't pay income tax. Now Obama is promising a tax break for 95% of Americans. If 60% are paying taxes, how do 95% get a break? Redeemable tax credits. If you pay taxes you use the tax credits to reduce what you owe. Effectively a tax break for you. If you don't pay taxes, you turn the tax credits in for cash. So those that don't pay taxes get money from the government who got it from those that do pay taxes. Hence wealth redistribution.

The Democrats have said that higher taxes will affect those who make more than an arbitrary amount. At first this was $250,000, but lately Obama-Biden have said $200,000 and there is talk of less. The fact is the President and Congress can make this whatever amount they chose. If one party controls the White House and Congress, they can change it if they want. There is nothing magic about the number. For that matter, they can also change how much we get in tax credits.

Personally, I don't think it is fair for one person to pay a different percentage of their income to the government than another person. If we all paid the same tax rate, then somebody who makes exactly twice as much as I do would pay exactly twice as much in taxes. I consider that fair.

If the government wants to really reduce the tax burden, then reduce the tax rate and let Americans keep more of their money instead of waiting on the government to give some of it back.
 
There are fundamental differences in our general opinions toward the role of government and how much money needs to be spent on social issues...as I knew there would be with most of you on this forum (but we all share a love of knives so it's all good). So, instead of hashing all that out to further explain the underlying themes in my previous postings (because I know that there is no middle ground for us there) I will simply say (getting back to the original video and the point that I made) that if we went into Iraq soley to help the Iraqi people (which of course there were other stated reasons which were later proven to be a farse) and that alone justifies us being there...then whose next. What country do we invade next for the sake of helping their people at the cost of young innocent American lives? There is a long list of other countries whose people are suffering much more profoudly than were the pre-war Iraqis. There are many governments who have equally bad, or worse human rights records than Iraq under Sadaam. Am I glad Sadaam is in our custody. Absolutely, he is an evil man. Was it worth the cost? Absolutely NOT! Bottom line: If we use helping the people of other nations as the major premise of justifying going to war, then we are in big trouble.
 
gottahaveit27,

You make some valid points. There are a LOT of things that the Bush administration did that I don't agree with.

And you make even a more valid point that we all love knives so it's all good ;)

We appreciate you being part of our forum.
 
I have no problem with differences of opinion. I believe that open discussions and open minds are an important part of solving problems.
 
Sadly, and I'm not exactly sure when, the politicians seemed to have forgotten that they were elected to serve US, not themselves and their pet projects/causes :mad:.
 
Sadly, and I'm not exactly sure when, the politicians seemed to have forgotten that they were elected to serve US, not themselves and their pet projects/causes :mad:.

The problem is that we allow them to get away with it. We should be in constant contact with them. Look at the recent bailout fiasco. The first go-round was soundly squashed because voters were in an uproar and let their representatives know about it. Of course we are still getting boned with an undeserved bailout but that's because we didn't keep the heat on the politicians.
 
In all honesty, I'm not sure that anyone has the answer, no matter their politics or part affiliation. The only thing that I have seen that's as close to perfect as you can get is the U.S. Constitution. It's a shame that slightly more than lip service is all that's seems to be paid to it anymore.
 
The problem is that we allow them to get away with it. We should be in constant contact with them. Look at the recent bailout fiasco. The first go around was soundly squashed because voters were in an uproar and let their representatives know about it. Of course we are still getting boned with an undeserved bailout but that's because we didn't keep the heat on the politicians.

You're exactly right. I sent letters to my Congressman and both Senators concerning the bailout bill, as did thousands of other Alabamians. Neither of my Senators or my Congressman voted for it. I was proud of them and they will be getting my votes.
 
There is one fact that makes the world go 'round. Money talks and BS walks. Obama and McCain are two pockets of the same pair of pants. There is an agenda at hand. Money=Power. Those who have these two things make the world go 'round. ALL politicians are "owned." The USA is a Country run by those who have the power to INFLUENCE. These people are called "Billionaires." The only thing we have going for us is that they are "incorporated" in a mesh of greed which undoubtedly means that it is cut-throat. Not only does "breaking a few eggs" include other country's citizens, but our own, and hopefully, THEIR own. There are two ways to be "on top:" Take and Suppress. However, certainly there are "perks" to being part of the machine.

The statement: "I support the Military and their actions" is sickening. I will change ONE word in this statement to show you the difference between ACTIONS and IDEAS. "I support the Murderers and their actions." There is a difference between OFFENSIVE murder and DEFENSIVE murder. Because ALL information is filtered at best, and unfortunately, fabricated, there is no ground to base this statement on. "Trust?" Trust in billionaires agendas?? Morals? In the military, you do what you're told, not what you think. Period. Being shot at is pretty convincing. The poor, poor man, who my heart goes out to, in this video is certainly a believer because he was on the front lines... People tried to kill him, and he believes that they were the bad guys. The rest is a story. There is NO truth involved in what he was/is told regarding the agenda at hand. The only thing definite is hope and emotion. If there was an army attacking your city, you would shoot at them, and they would shoot back. If a murderer is paid to commit the crime, do we NOT blame him because it was not his idea? It is suddenly OK because it is out of sight, and out of mind. Of course, defending yourself is different... But you have to realize what we are the OFFENSE, so "defending" ones self is not an acceptable rational. The military's presence is to oppress and suppress, by force. Defending somebody is surely likely, but they are the ones who roll over and get put into camps at worst or communities that are STILL run at the end of a barrel, but it is OUR barrel now, and OK because it serves OUR agenda. We feed them like dogs, and pretend that we are "giving" them something.

The truth is that we do not KNOW why we are taking over their country. We only know what the billionaire owned news corporations tell us. But I do know that money talks, and BS walks, and actions speak louder than words.
 
All I have to say is that if you own a semi-automatic rifle or handgun and you vote for Obama, you are the chicken voting for Colonel Sanders.
 
Like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion and we welcome them all.
 
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