Vises - "a leg to stand on"

[Agent_H]

Post vises - "A leg to stand on"

So, I drove out and met a guy about a post vice. Been wanting to find one that was usable yet not for what some of them are listed for. He ended up being a really good character and the vise ended up coming home with me. I think it was a worthwhile purchase and I'm really looking forward to setting it up either in my garage or maybe sinking a post of sorts outside. Somehow I think it's going inside because I plan to use it as much as I have time to - and my covered area outside is limited.

Thanks again for the advice on what to inspect – especially Square_peg and jblyttle for putting it in layman’s terms. I mentioned this thing in the “It followed me home” thread but I don’t want to ruin that one so I just started another one.




Here is my initial take on it (using my new checklist):

Check the screw. The threads should have square corners - or at least nearly square, and no pitting.

The screw threads are unpitted, clean, and they look close to square.

The 'box', the part that receives the screw should be undamaged.

The box doesn't seem to be damaged in any way or have any evidence of repair. The screw mates up easily on initial threading and stays tight. No real play in them until the screw is close to unthreaded. I assume that is part of the design so the jaws get enough relief close to being fully open. It does have the split style mounting brackets.

The spring should function lively - though it's not a big deal for a blacksmith to replace a spring - prybars make decent replacements.

The spring is different than I've seen in pictures/old ads but honestly, I've only seen 3 in person (this makes 4) and pictures we all have access to. It could already be a leaf spring or mal-adjusted but it certainly seems pinned tight in there but the retention tenon does have a little wear on it like I would expect from removing and reinstalling – tool marks. Maybe that is what they looked like when they went out – don’t know. The jaw readily "wants" to open upon release and it tracks the screw tightly. It is actually very, very smooth.

The donut is the bearing between the crank and the body of the vise. It should be smooth not pitted. A pitted donut will seize up the vise. A pitted donut can be replaced with an automotive throw-out bearing. The throw-out bearings work nice and smooth.

The donut doesn't have any functional issues but I’m not sure I'm looking at the original donut. Is that what you are describing as an automotive throw-out bearing?

The foot isn't abused:

The jaws are about 4 5/8".

It is marked with a 60 as weight. It is painted black but it does have one visible maker’s mark.

This picture is terrible to make out the marking under the paint – even with chalk. Without stripping the paint off of it I can only see more of it tilted just right in the light. It weighs 60lbs so I gave up trying to wrangle it into position.

Warren Tool & Forge Co., Quikwerk line of implements and tools.

I want any historians to feel free to chime in or correct me here but this my take on the Quikwerk, just on what I could find.

Warren Tool & Forge Co was organized in 1911 according to the following publication in 1922
Steel Processing and Conversion, Volume 8, 1922

So I assume they marked their tools with their Warren Tool & Forge stamp.

The earliest I could find on their Quikwerk line is in a railroad catalog from 1921. Picks are on the first page that mentioned Quikwerk tools but they had a variety of offerings shown.

Railway Track & Structures Cyclopedia, Issue 1

A 1922 publication has the Quikwerk line of tools including a vise like what I picked up.
Hardware World: Plumbing & Heating, Volume 17, 1922

Little Giant…

1921
American Exporter: A Monthly Journal of Foreign Trade, Volume 89
P.58

Here is something Steve Tall posted in a thread about Warren Tool & Forge Co. in reference to an adze:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1303554-Hack-Devil-Adze

Two different companies, at two different cities named Warren, one in Ohio and the other in Pennsylvania.

Warren Tool & Forge started production in 1912, according to this History of Northeastern Ohio, page 1112

"George F. Konold, son of Christ Konold, entered the shops of the Iron City Tool Works, at Pittsburgh, at the age of 15 years. He became a helper, then a hammersmith, and by practical experience acquired a knowledge of every branch of the forge industry. At the time of his father's death in 1888 he was 24 years old, and well equipped and qualified to become his father's successor as superintendent of the plant. That post he filled for 23 years. It was in 1911 that Mr. Konold became identified with the industrial affairs of the city of Warren. He and his brother, M. J. Konold, and J. D. Robertson, of Pittsburgh, organized in that year the Warren Tool & Forge Company. Ground was broken in December of that year and the plant was completed and equipped with machinery of Mr. Konold's special design. The first shipment of products was made in June, 1912. George F. Konold was the practical man of the concern. He was treasurer and general manager of the company. The president was Mr. Robertson and the vice president was M. J. Konold. Both resided at Pittsburgh...

As far as the Quikwerk line, I don't know how long they were made or if another company bought them out/merged and the Quikwerk line continued under different manufacturing conditions.

Beyond that, the linked books and publications are pretty interesting resources and include a lot of older tools I have seen questions asked about here (hammers/sledges/adzes/etc.) from the logging and rail industry.

 

[Steve Tall]

Speaking of vises and Warren Tool (of Ohio):

"The Columbian Vise Company originally made vises until 1973 when Warren Tool Company purchased the Company. You will find some of these vises were sold at Sears under the Craftsman name with the Craftsman name casting but they are unmistakable as being Columbian vises. The best way to identify them is the Craftsman model number begins with “506”. Warren Tool Company then began production in January of 1973 and I believe Sears used the model number prefix code “391”. They were red in color..."
http://junkyardtools.com/tool_history/wilton


"...Wilton acquired the Warren Tool Group in late 1990’s. With facilities now in three states across the country, Wilton had managed to corner the entire vise market. The Columbian Vise, manufactured in Cleveland, OH was the other "Made In USA" vise and was included in the Warren Tool Company merger."
http://www.wiltontools.com/us/en/company/history/

 

[markv]

i have a couple post vises. one setup on a tire rim for portability(never really worked out).
the other will go out to the country when we get the balcksmith shop built.
never really used either. might bolt the one in the shop to the bench!
buzz

 

[rjdankert]

That is a nice vice, congratulations. Enjoyed the write up too. Thanks for the post.

Do you know anything about this brand?

Little Giant…

1921
American Exporter: A Monthly Journal of Foreign Trade, Volume 89
P.58
https://books.google.com/books?id=P1...warren&f=false

I followed the link hoping it related to Little Giant.

The reason I am interested is that I have a Little Giant 5207 vise, but I don't know anything about that brand.


That vise belonged to my dad and for some reason it's part of my earliest memories (late 1940's). The vise looks today like I first remember it, so it presumably has been around for awhile. My dad used it until he died about seven years ago. Now I use it. It's a treasured keepsake, but doesn't get pampered.

Thanks,
Bob

 

[Agent_H]

Steve Tall- Thank you, that is great info there to have in one place. That gives kind of a framework/time frame for the history on quite a few quality vices, name changes, and company overlaps. I’m an amateur lol.

Markv – Thanks for adding to the thread. Any possibility of pictures?

Bob. Here is a mention of Little Giant as a trademark used in lathes, taps, and dies by the Greenfield Tap & Die Corp. out of Greenfield, MA circa 1912. They made larger drill/press machinery but there is mention of machinist tools, blacksmith equipemnt, and vises as well.

http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=402&tab=0

Little Giant was a trademark and there is reference to a “Little Giant” vise:

I know that the vise is a different style but it's a start.

Here is the pdf that that snapshot came from – interesting resource:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1269/5105.pdf p.90

Here is a page that has some of the Little Giant equipment.
http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=402

Wells Bros. Co. bought them out in 1917? B. B. Noyes had a hand in there as well. So Little Giant machinery changed hands several times. Maybe towards the end they started to manufacture vises in the style your father passed on to you. Keeping up with user demand, more automation, and less manually operated tools? This is all speculation, of course. But if you remember it from the 40’s and you think maybe your dad picked it up during that time-frame (or earlier), then Little Giant tools were on the market new/used?; it’s a starting place.

Things like your vise carry worth that is hard to describe when they are connected to family. I’m not a historian but I do think it's interesting. Great vise- giant, even.:thumbup:

 

[rjdankert]

Agent_H, reply much appreciated.

Thanks, Bob

 

[Square_peg]

Post vises – “A leg to stand on”

So, I drove out and met a guy about a post vice. Been wanting to find one that was usable yet not for what some of them are listed for. He ended up being a really good character and the vise ended up coming home with me. I think it was a worthwhile purchase and I'm really looking forward to setting it up either in my garage or maybe sinking a post of sorts outside.

That's a fine vise. You chose well. The spring and bearing have definitely been replaced but that doesn't hurt the function at all - they might even be improvements. That is a throw-out bearing on the crank. That's the standard repair for an old sticky binding donut. The new spring may be more lively than the original as well.

Mound the foot in a hole roto-hammered into a concrete floor. Most vises came with a steel 'brick' which the foot fit into but few vises found these days still have those with them. I just attached mine to the patio with a bracket forged out of a railroad spike.

 

[mitch4ging]

Congradulations Agent H on the post vise! I have two (2) as well. A smaller 4" Indian Chief and a 4.5" Iron City. About your question on the leg taper, yes both of mine do taper. One was repaired as well, with an obvious weld. Looks like a keeper, and nice research!
I will try to post a puc of mine, not sure I got the hang if this yet...
Mitch

Iron City:


Indian:

 

[mitch4ging]

Well I seem to be having problems posting photos...
Anyway, Bob, nice story and great vise.
Square Peg; love your set-up. That is a serious blower on your forge!

 

[Lieblad]

.....

 

[Square_peg]

Congradulations Agent H on the post vise! I have two (2) as well. A smaller 4" Indian Chief and a 4.5" Iron City.

Indian:

Thanks for the pics. I have a 6" Indian Chief which I don't have set up yet. It's a beast - 145 lbs. I need to make space for it somewhere. What do you know about the brand?

 

[Steve Tall]

...I have a 6" Indian Chief... What do you know about the brand?

"An excellent line of blacksmiths vises and anvils is manufactured by The Columbus Forge & Iron Co of Columbus O. This line includes the well known Trenton anvils and the Indian Chief vises. The Trenton anvils are constructed from solid wrought new steel not cast. These anvils have a recessed base and will stand firmly in the block. They are perfect in shape and the manufacturers say they will ring like a bell. The Indian Chief vises made by the same company are solid, substantial, and will stand hard work. They are made with a solid box; with solid steel, drop forged jaws, faced with crucible tool steel. The improved screw is made from one piece of forged steel and the vise is of the best workmanship and material throughout."

from The Blacksmith and Wheelwright, Feb 1917, page 522

 

[mitch4ging]

Thanks for the information Steve! And if I recall, Columbus Forge is a different company than Columbian...

Square Peg, yeah a 6" is a monster! Great addition to your set-up!

Agent H, I also enjoyed all your info as well! Thanks.

 

[garry3]

Agent H, you have a good eye for quality. Congratulations on your vice. Them soft jaws are great for axe heads, you are going to use it a lot.


I have a few leg vices as well. The one I have set up at the moment is a little 4" that has been cut down and welded on. It is a newer coil spring type. I put the leg in a block of wood because it was to short to reach the floor. I have a larger one to replace it with but it doesn't seem to be a priority. the little one works pretty well.

 

[Agent_H]

Agent_H, reply much appreciated.

Thanks, Bob

My pleasure :thumbup:

That's a fine vise. You chose well. The spring and bearing have definitely been replaced but that doesn't hurt the function at all - they might even be improvements. That is a throw-out bearing on the crank. That's the standard repair for an old sticky binding donut. The new spring may be more lively than the original as well.

Mound the foot in a hole roto-hammered into a concrete floor. Most vises came with a steel 'brick' which the foot fit into but few vises found these days still have those with them. I just attached mine to the patio with a bracket forged out of a railroad spike.

This is all great to know. Also, Square_peg that railroad spike to brace is nice work. I was just thinking my next project is to work on where and how I am going to mount it properly so I can use it.

On a side note, I sent a picture of the vise to my dad last night and he told me he wished he’d known I would have an interest before as my grandfather had such gear and that it was basically given away after he passed on. Must have been an exciting estate sale for someone. I remember the shop and the hearth but only vaguely as I was young. It was always warm. I do remember him telling me “if it looks sharp, it is” (he would always hold up his left hand – the one without a thumb) and, “if it’s red –Don’t touch it!”

I guess he would bring things home to fix from the mill as well.

mitch4ging – Thanks for the information/pictures and that the legs on yours taper at that point as well.

Steve Tall has a great lead there for more info.

Here is what I dug up this morning on Iron City Tool Works
1. Iron City shows up as listed as makers of blacksmith’s vises.

Seeger and Guernsey's Cyclopaedia of the Manufactures and Products of the United States, 1890
https://books.google.com/books?id=HL00AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA536&dq=iron+city+tool+works+vise&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAGoVChMIlpeAqKGmxwIVipaICh1xNQEh#v=onepage&q=iron city tool works vise&f=false

I did find blacksmith forums where members believe the Iron City Tool Works was founded in 1854 by German immigrants and then bought by Warren Tool Company in 1958. Seems Warren continued to use the Iron City name for a while. There was also an Iron City Forge that was German immigrant owned that was taken in by Carnegie Steel, so maybe there is a wire crossed there but…

The earliest remark of founding I can find in an actual resource says 1865:
Opinions of Collectors of Customs Concerning Ad Valorem and Specific Rates of Duty on Imports, Issues 9-20, 1894

https://books.google.com/books?id=CaY6AQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA72&lpg=RA1-PA72&dq=iron+city+tool+works+ad&source=bl&ots=u9XrCXmv04&sig=7aX9ieWyyw7uTrnVG6vV2IICfm0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CFIQ6AEwCGoVChMI4rbA2bKmxwIVWDOICh2Mzg0U#v=onepage&q=iron city tool works ad&f=false

It’s interesting that their six-point star looks a lot like the Star of David as well.


2. As Steve Tall posted, Indian Chief was a brand made by Columbus Forge and Iron Company.

1901 is the first reference I am finding on the Columbus Iron and Forge Company. Here it is referenced in a letter to the editor of American Blacksmith where the author is making a point of work being done by anvil is faster than with drop-forge. Pretty interesting. The Foreman Blacksmith of General Electric Co. is the one writing the rebuttal. So I guess that Columbus Forge and Iron Company were producing at least anvils then.

American Blacksmith and Motor Shop, Volume 1, 1901

https://books.google.com/books?id=97HmAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Iron+trade+review+Columbus+Forge+&+iron+Co.&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEYQ6AEwB2oVChMIvtCk3JymxwIVi5aICh3SrApz#v=onepage&q=Columbus Forge & iron Co&f=false


The Iron Age, Volume 79, 1907

Another early mention I found of the parent company is of a No. 2 paragon machine on order from the company.
https://books.google.com/books?id=XvQ9AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA1605&dq=columbus+forge+and+iron+company&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEAQ6AEwA2oVChMImrnp94mmxwIVCn6ICh2AiwAq#v=onepage&q=columbus forge and iron company&f=false

American Blacksmith and Motor Shop, Volume 17, 1917
https://books.google.com/books?id=ybnmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA108&lpg=PA108&dq=indian+chief+blacksmith+tools&source=bl&ots=2qpRDkaJU9&sig=W7PqT0Ty6a0GcxuG5bK-eW14Ys4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CGEQ6AEwDWoVChMIiP2I6IKmxwIVECyICh3BlAef#v=onepage&q=indian chief blacksmith tools&f=false
Looks like the same company was the maker of the Trenton line of anvils and tools as well. There is a reference to being the same maker of the Indian Chief vise.

The Blacksmith & Wheelwright, Volumes 81-84, 1920
Jumping ahead to 1920, there is a great ad for their tools, including the Indian Chief vise.
https://books.google.com/books?id=CphaAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA166&dq=indian+chief+blacksmith+tools&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAGoVChMIzt7Qv5emxwIVBiqICh3FvwCG#v=onepage&q=indian chief blacksmith tools&f=false
I like this ad – It’s…Strong

Agent H, you have a good eye for quality. Congratulations on your vice. Them soft jaws are great for axe heads, you are going to use it a lot.

Thank you and exactly! Garry, I think I have eyed one of the vices you are talking about in at least one of your posts here. I am a long ways off from a forge but I won't let the vise go unused.

 

[Steve Tall]

...Here is what I dug up this morning on Iron City Tool Works...I did find blacksmith forums where members believe the Iron City Tool Works was founded in 1854 by German immigrants and then bought by Warren Tool Company in 1958. Seems Warren continued to use the Iron City name for a while. There was also an Iron City Forge that was German immigrant owned that was taken in by Carnegie Steel, so maybe there is a wire crossed there… The earliest remark of founding I can find in an actual resource says 1865....

Another source says Iron City Tool Works was founded in 1854, then was acquired by Warren Tool in 1958, then acquired by Cincinnati Tool in 1962:

"The Iron City Tool Works, Inc. (founded in 1854), Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, was acquired [by Warren Tool] in 1958 and The Cincinnati Tool Company (founded in 1879), Cincinnati, Ohio, in 1962. Iron City products are now made at Warren, ..."

from Blacksmiths' and Farriers' Tools at Shelburne Museum, by H.R. Bradley Smity, 1966, Page 103
https://books.google.com/books?id=FsLWAAAAMAAJ
‎Snippet view - found with Google Books search for:
acquired "iron city tool works"


Warren Tool [of Ohio] was founded in 1911, according to Industrial World, Dec. 25, 1911, p. 1543

 

[Agent_H]

I feel smarter when I read your posts.

 

[garry3]

Its hard to have to many vices and clamps in a shop. I am always looking to up grade also.

This is my other leg vice. It gets almost as much use as my blacksmith vice. It was gifted to me and of coarse the value is in the hardware. I replaced all the wood components and mounted it at the end of a work bench. It has padded jaws and I can shave wood from either end of a stave that is clamped because it is higher than my work bench. The bottom leg is adjustable by a simple peg and board.

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[Square_peg]

Good info, all. Thank you very much.


Here's a photo of my 6.25" - 145 pound Indian Chief leaning against my smaller 85 pound 6" vise. . I grabbed this one for $95.

 

[mitch4ging]

Agent H, Square Peg, Steve,
Thanks for sharing all your research, great stuff!
Agent H,
There are a couple of good forums with great info on vises and anvils which you may have been talking sbout, such as IforgeIron and anvil fire, great folks and info. thats where I started research when I started down this road. bladesmithsforum. This is another great source I just recently found and joined. Thanks again for all the info.

Garry3, nice vise! Would love to dig one up as well!

Mitch