Waiting lists

A maker has to have stuff at shows regardless of their waiting list. I want the maker I have an order with to stay active in the market, and that means selling some portion of their production on a 1st come, 1st served basis, at shows and on his site. Of course, I expect this to be a reasonable % of their production, maybe 25%? Not sure what the right % needs to be.

If the maker returned the check, I assume he had not cashed it. In that case, I would tend to think that the maker was of good faith. A maker able to cash the check has to send the knife.

Knife makers are often poor at communicating and at the business aspects.
 
Joss said:
A maker has to have stuff at shows regardless of their waiting list. I want the maker I have an order with to stay active in the market, and that means selling some portion of their production on a 1st come, 1st served basis, at shows and on his site. Of course, I expect this to be a reasonable % of their production, maybe 25%? Not sure what the right % needs to be.

If the maker returned the check, I assume he had not cashed it. In that case, I would tend to think that the maker was of good faith. A maker able to cash the check has to send the knife.

Knife makers are often poor at communicating and at the business aspects.
Click to expand...

Totally Agree...
 
There is a waiting list for custom orders. Makers will also make knives for shows, because they feel it important to get the exposure and to meet some of their customers face to face. Customers should not get upset about makers taking knives to shows when they still have orders outstanding.

Another thing you will find is that many makers will have a different delivery schedule for repeat customers than they do for those putting in their first order. The maker may have a three years backlog, but for repeat customers the wait may only be a year or two. As far as I am concerned, this is just good business. There is nothing wrong with special treatment for your best customers.

In your friends situation, I would have been very upset. Long delivery dates don't bother me, but if a maker contacts me and tells me my knife is ready, please send the payment, that knife should be on its way to me as soon as the maker gets his/her money. If this isn't possible due to some unforeseen reason, I expect to be informed. I am a very reasonable person, but I am intolerant of poor communication.
 
ill be straight up with people if they order a knife and i have others to make as to when their knife will be done. that just goes against my grain to take money and not deliver. if i have a knife ready for someone and they send me payment, that knife will be on its way to the customer as soon as i can get it out.
 
I was told that Bill Moran (who had an extensive backlog) made knives in 3's, One for an order, one for a show and one for a safety deposit box for his wife. His wife passed before him but this is a good retirement plan.

Chuck
 
IMO, waiting list/orders mean different things to different makers.

Some keep an accurate list and would not vary from them for anything in the world and dedicate a certain % of their time for filling these orders.

Some keep list but don't particularly follow them, in that they choose knives from the list they feel like making. For example, if a maker feels like making an upscale gentleman's Bowie he just looks for one among his orders.

Some just fill orders when things are slow or between shows.

As Keith mentioned, some keep list however will slip in a good customer or make something from a customer's design that interest them. I as Keith, see nothing wrong with this. If a collector is consistently buying say $10,000-$20,000 a year with a maker, why would he/she make this collector wait behind someone that's buying a single knife or an inexpensive piece. In most all businesses the best customers get preferential treatment. Look at the airlines frequent flier and hotel clubs.

Some take orders knowing they will never fill them. In the past, I have ordered a knife and called say a year latter and the maker not only didn't remember what I ordered but didn't remember me.

I would recommend makers just be straight-up with collectors and say 2-4 years unless something happens? Because things do happen. I have always found it best to promise a little and deliver a lot.

I would recommend to collectors to "never give a deposit up front" unless you are requesting something that the maker could not readily sell.
 
I'm interested to see how this thread goes, as I've been through just about every waiting list situation, good and bad.
 
Kevin Jones said:
IMO, waiting list/orders mean different things to different makers.

Some keep an accurate list and would not vary from them for anything in the world and dedicate a certain % of their time for filling these orders.

Some keep list but don't particularly follow them, in that they choose knives from the list they feel like making. For example, if a maker feels like making an upscale gentleman's Bowie he just looks for one among his orders.

Some just fill orders when things are slow or between shows.

As Keith mentioned, some keep list however will slip in a good customer or make something from a customer's design that interest them. I as Keith, see nothing wrong with this. If a collector is consistently buying say $10,000-$20,000 a year with a maker, why would he/she make this collector wait behind someone that's buying a single knife or an inexpensive piece. In most all businesses the best customers get preferential treatment. Look at the airlines frequent flier and hotel clubs.

Some take orders knowing they will never fill them. In the past, I have ordered a knife and called say a year latter and the maker not only didn't remember what I ordered but didn't remember me.

I would recommend makers just be straight-up with collectors and say 2-4 years unless something happens? Because things do happen. I have always found it best to promise a little and deliver a lot.

I would recommend to collectors to "never give a deposit up front" unless you are requesting something that the maker could not readily sell.
Click to expand...

Totally agree .. too.
 
Joss said:
A maker has to have stuff at shows regardless of their waiting list. I want the maker I have an order with to stay active in the market, and that means selling some portion of their production on a 1st come, 1st served basis, at shows and on his site. Of course, I expect this to be a reasonable % of their production, maybe 25%? Not sure what the right % needs to be.

If the maker returned the check, I assume he had not cashed it. In that case, I would tend to think that the maker was of good faith. A maker able to cash the check has to send the knife.

Knife makers are often poor at communicating and at the business aspects.
Click to expand...
I agree also!
 
Deposits can get makers in trouble, I do not accept them. Same with trades, it is real easy to get behind and can take a long time to pay off your debt. When it comes to orders, my only promise is "as soon as I can", unless it is a special event.

There are days when over half of my time is on the phone, I take notes but sometimes loose them. Recently my computer (actually my lack of computer ability) put my order list somewhere. Still have not found it.

It never hurts to keep in touch, most makers don't intend to ignore clients, but accidents can happen, lost notes, names but no phone number that works, moved with no forwarding address, same with e mail addresses.

I take as many knives as possible to shows, I feel we owe the clients who travel to a show and pay to attend to have enough knives that the last patron will have something to look at. Empty tables are very disappointing to those who come to see and I feel may be part of the reason attendance is down for some shows.
 
I feel that regardless of their wait list situation, a maker should be able to have knives available to sell at shows. It is a necessary part of maintaining their careers, and most collectors are understanding of that.

However, I do not feel that a maker should ask for payment until a knife is complete and ready to ship, unless it is a deposit for expensive materials of for an unusual order that the maker thinks they would have difficulty selling otherwise. Like your friend, I would not be too thrilled if a maker asked me for payment telling me that a knife was ready and I still hadn't received the knife a month later.
 
A maker has to have knives available for sale at show, its part of the marketing process and a buyer should be aware of it. Good marketing promotes and maintains the maker's profile in the market and keeps his knife prices high which should be a plus for any of his customers.
 
Years of backlogs never understood it. I won't wait for anything if I want something. Life is just to short and who knows what could happen. I mean do people send in deposits and wait years for a knife? I guess they do from what I have been reading. I had an experience the last 3 years of my best friend dying of cancer, passed about a year ago. I made up my mind during that time I will wait for nothing. Who knows ya know what I mean? No knock on makers as they can do what they want, no knock on buyers as they can do what they want. I'll look elsewhere for something I want. And get it as soon as I can. Just the way I roll. keepem sharp
 
It is a true fact that many makers, with a well organized work schedule, do
work constantly at filling their orders but in between make some knives to
take to a show. If they are really well organized they can easily also make a
knife at very short notice when needed.
I know this as a fact, when makers saw it worth the extra effort to make a
knife to be used in a worthy publication. Once a maker backed out at the
last minute from participating in one of my books (i.e. for health reasons),
a new maker picked up the challenge at short notice and spend quite a
lot of time fulfilling the required obligations, agreeing to do so with a very
high pressing short deadline... Such events were quite nerve-racking for me
but working under total pressure was what these projects demanded from
me too so I pushed on..... And, this happened more than once... :)

Knifemakers are only human beings in the full meaning of the word. They are
artists too - here too in the full meaning of the word. Some are better
organized, some have family or other personal issues and some allow the
"artistic streak" to take over their life allowing them to do as they please... :)

But all this does not take away anything from my feelings of deep
respect towards what and whom they are as custom makers of something
I truly love.

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
 
Ordering from makers are not the same as ordering from factories.

Making orders everyday can be very boring for makers, I like to try new things, innovate and learn from failures. Makers that only make to order can't do that and their work always look the same and they stagnant as artists and as makers.
 
Having a backlog is a good thing, it keeps a positive cash flow. It does get boring making what everyone else wants and not what you want. Bill Moran's method is good, 3 at a time, one for the show, one for a customer and one for the bank.

Between shows and during slow months of the year I fill orders. I usually give myself a couple of months to get ready for a show and just make knives for the show. After the show I go back to filling orders.

Sometimes you can kill to birds with one stone. You build a knife for a show and if it does not sell at the show you can contact a customer with a similar order and see if he is interested in it.

I'm taking orders now.
 
My take on it is that the majority of makers, who have waiting lists, go to shows to create more of a waiting list. And the list goes on ..... and on ..... and on...

I think a lot of makers are poor at communication and business practises, they accept people for their "list" -but never get to it. As long as they don't charge for the knife and never give you one, it's not as bad. Still, I would rather have a maker tell me they won't be able to get to it. Straightforward, up front honesty is always the best policy.

In my experience (I've been on a lot of lists), the exceptions are Bob Terzuola, Bob Lum and Bob Dozier (I know all Bob's... weird coincidence) -they're good people who not only have stellar business practises, but also make one helluva knife. :thumbup:
 
As a maker I've always wanted to please the customer but can only do what I can do. I've been out of the show loop for several years and only make the Central Texas Knife show every couple of years. I hate that, and realize that most customers in the knife world have no idea who I am or what I make and want really bad to get back into the shows and magazines like I was before, I loved going to the Blade show & Guild show, I was a probationary member of the Guild for a while but three teenage daughters took over, I've had 9 back surgeries and can't make knives fast enough to make a living at it. And I have a great job that pays fine and has great benefits, Not trying to make excuses, just explain. But I do what I can to keep up with orders and am probably 2-3 yrs from completing everything ordered. Like someone stated above, You want to build things you'd like to build, but orders get in the way of that, I quit taking orders for the most part a couple of years ago but have been brow beat in to taking a few more since then. I will build one here & there for customers that have bought several. My desire now after getting the girls all married off is getting all of my orders completed and then Starting over with the shows and trying to be organized better like stated earlier. Like Ed, I do not take deposits unless someone forces me too, and then only to buy exotic materials, I don't want your money until I'm finished with your piece. I'm thankful for the thread, it sheds some light on how people feel. Just my thoughts, Dwayne Dushane


http://dushaneknives.com
 
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