Waiting lists

Danbo, ..looks like you've been conveniently erased. ;)

This brings up the idea of "ancient" history. I wonder what the longest anyone here has ever 'waited' on a knife, received it - or still waiting? .
David

You might want to check with folks that have an order in with Michael Connor. My order with him was only about four years ago, but I know of others that have been waiting twice that long.
 
I read every single BF Thread like this.

This Thread is particularly interesting ... and valuable.

I've only begun, just barely, actually 'collecting' custom knives. I have a very small number with a few more on order. One has been on order for 2 yrs, 4 months and the other for 1 yr, 11 months. After reading this, I feel a lot more secure/relieved.

But I think I should contact the makers just a bit more often. :)
 
One thing that always gets me is when I read posts from people that get upset, or downright angry, when a maker doesn't deliver exactly on the delivery date that was given. I consider folks like that to be way too impatient and totally lacking in understanding.

This is not a commentary on any of the people that have posted in this thread. It is just an observation that I have made from past threads.
 
One thing that always gets me is when I read posts from people that get upset, or downright angry, when a maker doesn't deliver exactly on the delivery date that was given. I consider folks like that to be way too impatient and totally lacking in understanding.

This is not a commentary on any of the people that have posted in this thread. It is just an observation that I have made from past threads.

I agree Keith. After placing an order, I just kind of forget about it. When you get the call then it's a great day. :) :)
 
You might want to check with folks that have an order in with Michael Connor. My order with him was only about four years ago, but I know of others that have been waiting twice that long.

Mine's older than yours, Keith. ;) :)

This is one I'm wondering if I'll ever see.
 
OK I would like to put end end to this since this is about the third time that millikin has brought it up. I am the "maker" that is refered to in this. The LT. Col. contacted me and said that he had seen a knife that I had made and wanted to know how long it would take to make him a knife. I told him that my wait list was about two years and that the knife that he wanted would cost twenty five hundred dollars. He then told me that he could not afford that much and this is when he told me that he was a pilot and that he had just returned from Iraq. When I found out this information I told him that I would make the knife he wanted as soon as I could and that he could pay me what ever he wanted to for the knife and I thanked him for his service too our contry. Three or for months later he called and I told him that his knife was almost done and that I would finish it as soon as I returned from the ABS show in Reno but I never ask for payment. a few days later I received a check from this guy and called him and ask why he had sent the money when I had told him that the knife was not finished yet and that I was trying to finish knives for the show so wouldn't be working on his until I returned. he said that he was excited and just felt better to have it paid for and that it was not a problem waiting for the knife I thanked him and cashed his check. When I returned from the Reno show I got sick and had some other things come up and did not do any work in the shop for about two and a half or three weeks. At this time I was in contact with the buyer and told him that I had been sick and unable to work on his knife. He told me that he was a patient man and that as long as he had the knife for hunting season he was happy. I thanked him for his patience and understanding and went to the shop. Then the next day he called me and told me that he believed I had sold his knife in Reno and that I was just stalling for time so that I could make another knife and that he wanted his money back and no longer wanted the knife and yes I was insulted by this. I sent a cashiers check to him the next morning and sold the now completed knife to blade gallery. That afternoon I was contacted by the guy who now wanted the knife and was sorry for flying off the handle at me. I told him that I had sold the knife to blade gallery but if he could convince Daniel that he wanted the knife more than Daniel did then I would send the knife to him rather than Daniel. He called Daniel and demanded that he sell him the knife for the price that he was originally to pay and that I said he had to do so. after a couple of more e mails back and forth in which this guy got more nutty in every reply I told him that I would no longer sell him a knife and that he should not contact me again. This all happened about three years ago now and just last fall I got an e mail from the guy asking my permission to buy one of my knives from another collector and I told him that he was free to buy one of my knives from anyone but me he replied and said thank you. I have justified this thread with an answer only because as I said in the beginning David Millikin (2knife) can't seem to let this thing drop and seems to bring it up at every opportunity and and has also said other things about me in this forum in which he has not had all the facts or has the facts wrong. I don't know if he is a nut like his "friend" or just likes to stir up trouble but I am tired of it. How about the rest of you guys. And just to be fair I am sometimes late at delivering a knife as promissed but never ask for payment until I am ready to send the knife. and I have a couple of trades that I have been working on for a year or more but have kept in touch with the customers and have been told that it is no problem. so now that I have told my side of the story what do you all think?
 
Thanks Bill. Always good to hear both sides of the story. As I stated earlier in this thread, so many times we only hear the collectors side and here we heard it second hand.
 
It is sure interesting to get both sides of the story.

Bill, this doesn't cause me any concern about my order that I have placed with you. I guess that tells you what I think.
 
I thanked him and cashed his check. ...what do you all think?
Bill - Thank you for sharing your story, and yes, there are a lot of 'difficult' people out there in the world. It pays to learn how to sniff them out and avoid them. But, with all due respect, cashing the check was a mistake. Returning the check with a note saying simply, "It's my longstanding policy not to accept payment until the knife is delivered" might have saved some trouble. (*note that I said 'delivered', not 'ready for delivery'.)

Please don't hear this as criticism of you personally. I've made the same mistake in my business and probably everybody else has too, in one way or another. But your story perfectly illustrates the larger generic issue: When anyone accepts money from someone else, then that someone else owns a piece of the one who accepted the money. The person who now owns a piece of you (meaning me, you or anyone in this position) may or may not be a reasonable human being. For that and a million other reasons it's best to go with the age old rule of thumb - the rule we all try and teach our kids and that our parents tried to teach us - one gets paid when the work is done, and not before. Neither a borrower nor a lender be.

As to the issues surrounding verbal agreements and communications between maker and customer where no money has exchanged hands, this thread illustrates the wide variety of possible approaches and attitudes. To be clear, I am referring to the question of 'orders' and 'waiting lists.'

My personal stance is an outgrowth of my experience and beliefs. As such, what I do may not be what others choose to do. These are my rules:
- Never place orders or have my name put on a waiting list.
- Only buy completed pieces that can be examined in person (at a show, at a hammer-in, in the maker's shop etc.)
- Always buy directly from the maker.

There can be exceptions. I have nothing against purchasing from a dealer or another collector. But my preference is to deal personally with the maker.

I want to show the maker what kind of person I am and how much I respect them and admire their work. I never haggle or ask for a discount. If one is offered, I accept with sincere thanks and appreciation but I do not expect discounts in the future. That is up to the maker. If I can be the kind of customer a maker finds desirable, good things happen as a matter of course. Special pieces will sometimes come my way, or other opportunities. Doors will open. Again and again I have found this to be true. A man cannot stand before an empty fireplace and say, "Give me heat and I will give you wood." The rules I have set for myself prevent any tension from developing in our relationship. For me this has proved to be a very satisfying way to go.

Since this is not the first time I've posted my thoughts on such topics, I know some collectors will suggest that I must surely be missing out on a lot of great knives by limiting myself so strictly. And some makers will write me off as hopeless and not worth a smile or nod at a show. That's OK. It's a big world and there should be room for everybody. I take nothing away from anyone as regards their differing opinions on the matter.

Great thread and great discussion. I appreciate the opportunity to learn and participate.
 
Let me add to good things that can be said about Bill Burke. A few years back before Bill moved to his new location, he and I had corresponded after I had seen his knives at a Blade West show.
We arranged for me to get a nice knife of his and I spoke with Bill before travelling across the US to shows and vacation and arrived at his home where we had great hospitality with his family. When Bill arrived home, he apologized that he had not finished the knife I was to get but he did have a larger version for the same price.

I looked over the knife and was pleased to make the deal. He spent time with me showing how well the knife would cut and Phyllis and I visited more with the family before heading on.

This knife now resides in my collection and is a centre piece sitting on a large piece of petrified wood among many other forged hunters.

this is the knife

standard.jpg


I love to handle the knife and enjoy having this knife as much as I do chatting with Bill's mentor Ed Fowler. Hopefully one day I'll have time to locate Bill at his new abode and talk some knives.
 
Thanks Keith. Buddy, well said and good advice. Like I said I normally don't take money before a knife is ready but figured it was ok this time because I had spoken with the customer and let him know again that it would still be awhile before the knife was finished and was assured that it was ok. I used to send a knife and the get paid but have been burned twice so have changed my ways. It was nice meeting you at Reno. Murry It was alotta fun and you are welcome anytime. Do you still have the baggy of shavings? Kevin Thank you also.
 
Hi Bill

You know, when I posted first, I meant to mention about that rope and shavings and I sure do have them with some of my knife stands and other knife items in one of my display stands.
 
Buddy, a lot of thought went into your post. Thanks.

I enjoy the dialog with makers, and nowadays I find my time at shows often limited to working. So, I take advantage of relationships and will place orders. I certainly get to see what's available right up close.

Coop
 
Thanks for the other side of the story Bill. You were extremely accomodating to this would-be customer and did all you could to keep him informed when delays (very short, in the big scheme of things) cropped up on your end. I wouldn't put up with someone challenging my integrity, either. You are well rid of him.

Roger
 
I used to send a knife and the get paid but have been burned twice so have changed my ways. It was nice meeting you at Reno.
Bill - Thanks for hearing my comments in the spirit I intended. I also enjoyed meeting you in Reno, and admiring your fine knives.

Getting burned shapes behavior quicker than anything I know of!

In a couple of instances recently I fudged my own rules a little. Both involved makers with whom I'd done business before and knew that they would do what they said they'd do, by the time they said they'd have it done. These weren't orders, but rather personal projects the makers were working on with no buyer in place, and I had been able to see the substantially finished blade or another similar piece. Knowing and trusting the maker (and visa versa) I felt comfortable committing to purchase upon completion.

When I got the "it's ready to ship" call I was happy to send payment, in one case by check and in the other via Pay Pal - and wait for verification on the maker's end that the funds reached their account. Then the blade was shipped etc. - everybody happy.

One time a blade I'd purchased this way was lost in shipping. The maker and I had agreed on insurance ahead of time (always a good move, IMO) and after a bit of paperwork was completed, DHL (in this case) reimbursed me in full (over $1,400). Hopefully this is a rare occurrence, but it can happen.

In the end, someone has to take a little risk unless, as in the case of my own rules, if I stick to them, there is ZERO risk.
 
OK I would like to put end end to this since this is about the third time that millikin has brought it up. I am the "maker" that is refered to in this. The LT. Col. contacted me and said that he had seen a knife that I had made and wanted to know how long it would take to make him a knife. I told him that my wait list was about two years and that the knife that he wanted would cost twenty five hundred dollars. He then told me that he could not afford that much and this is when he told me that he was a pilot and that he had just returned from Iraq. When I found out this information I told him that I would make the knife he wanted as soon as I could and that he could pay me what ever he wanted to for the knife and I thanked him for his service too our contry. Three or for months later he called and I told him that his knife was almost done and that I would finish it as soon as I returned from the ABS show in Reno but I never ask for payment. a few days later I received a check from this guy and called him and ask why he had sent the money when I had told him that the knife was not finished yet and that I was trying to finish knives for the show so wouldn't be working on his until I returned. he said that he was excited and just felt better to have it paid for and that it was not a problem waiting for the knife I thanked him and cashed his check. When I returned from the Reno show I got sick and had some other things come up and did not do any work in the shop for about two and a half or three weeks. At this time I was in contact with the buyer and told him that I had been sick and unable to work on his knife. He told me that he was a patient man and that as long as he had the knife for hunting season he was happy. I thanked him for his patience and understanding and went to the shop. Then the next day he called me and told me that he believed I had sold his knife in Reno and that I was just stalling for time so that I could make another knife and that he wanted his money back and no longer wanted the knife and yes I was insulted by this. I sent a cashiers check to him the next morning and sold the now completed knife to blade gallery. That afternoon I was contacted by the guy who now wanted the knife and was sorry for flying off the handle at me. I told him that I had sold the knife to blade gallery but if he could convince Daniel that he wanted the knife more than Daniel did then I would send the knife to him rather than Daniel. He called Daniel and demanded that he sell him the knife for the price that he was originally to pay and that I said he had to do so. after a couple of more e mails back and forth in which this guy got more nutty in every reply I told him that I would no longer sell him a knife and that he should not contact me again. This all happened about three years ago now and just last fall I got an e mail from the guy asking my permission to buy one of my knives from another collector and I told him that he was free to buy one of my knives from anyone but me he replied and said thank you. I have justified this thread with an answer only because as I said in the beginning David Millikin (2knife) can't seem to let this thing drop and seems to bring it up at every opportunity and and has also said other things about me in this forum in which he has not had all the facts or has the facts wrong. I don't know if he is a nut like his "friend" or just likes to stir up trouble but I am tired of it. How about the rest of you guys. And just to be fair I am sometimes late at delivering a knife as promissed but never ask for payment until I am ready to send the knife. and I have a couple of trades that I have been working on for a year or more but have kept in touch with the customers and have been told that it is no problem. so now that I have told my side of the story what do you all think?

If this is the story ... David, you and your friend SHUT THE HELL UP .. you are wasting our time, stop whining ... grow up!
 
Back
Top