Waiting lists

2knife, your friend got a raw deal, sorry to hear that. Would like to hear the maker's story on this one.

As for waiting lists, knife buyers have a responsibility too. I have lost contact with a few on my list and without their contact, I have to cross them off and move on. If you have an order with a maker that is coming due or long over due, it's best to call or email and find out what's going on. Communication is key! Ya know the saying, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" :)
 
I agree with Don. Though we shouldn't, sometimes information gets lost whether its an order card or a computer problem. I'm not suggesting you call the maker every week but at least check in on your status from time to time. In fact I wish collectors that have been on my list would check in more often. I enjoy talking to my collectors about a variety of things. We as makers have the luxury of meeting people from all walks of life. I enjoy hearing about what they are doing.

I think this goes back to developing a relationship with the maker. Many of the collectors online here have developed a relationship with the makers they collect. If a maker has two names to pick from to make an order he's likely to go with the one that he's most comfortable working with. Comfort can involve knowing your going to be paid, knowing the collector will be good to work with, and knowing the collector will be satisfied if the maker does what he says. I think the collector ends up with a knife that has more heart in it at the end because that maker is thinking of that collector the whole time, knowing he doesn't want to let that collector down. I think it's more of a subconcscious thing. I don't think makers purposely do a worse job because they don't know who it's going to, but the work always tends to be better the more meaning it has behind it.

In a perfect world makers would go in order right down the list but that's not reality. I look for orders that will continue to push me to get better and for collectors that will truly cherish the finished piece.
 
The makers I've dealt with were courteous and up front about delivery time. Sometimes things happen beyond the control of a one person shop that delay a delivery, but that's to be expected. I've never been asked to make a deposit on a knife. And I certainly don't rush the maker. There's not a doubt in my mind that repeat customers have a leg up, and they should. Relationships in any business are very important.

I am patient and am willing to wait for a custom made product built to suit me. In some cases, I might not be alive when the knife is completed, but my son will carry on :)
 
I would think having a long waiting list is a little prestigious for a maker?

What do you think?

Does this play a part? It's got to be a little comforting to know that if business slows there's always the list to fall back on.
 
I do not have a problem with long delivery times, except for one thing. Let's say I want a knife from Jerry Fisk. The knife I am interested in is $3000.00 at this time. Now let's say that the estimated time that my name will come to the top of the list is six years. What will I be paying for the knife? If it doubles in price over that time, I am not going to be interested any longer. Some makers will lock in a price no matter how long it takes for them to make the knife. Many will not.
 
I can see locking in a price if the maker is still making the same knife 6 years from now.

If my knives are not better in six years I will feel that I have stagnated and give it up. It is not about a production knife, but a challenge that I greatly enjoy that keeps me making knives.

I make knives to support my obsession with learning more about the performance qualities of the steel I use, studies in blade geometry and now the contribution of past makers that waits to be recognized and applied to the knives of tomorrow.

When I take an order I state up front that I cannot commit to future prices. Under no circunstances would I go back to making the same knife I made 6 years ago.

I have been lucky, my clients support my quest, without their support our knowledge would not have happened.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I do not have a problem with long delivery times, except for one thing. Let's say I want a knife from Jerry Fisk. The knife I am interested in is $3000.00 at this time. Now let's say that the estimated time that my name will come to the top of the list is six years. What will I be paying for the knife? If it doubles in price over that time, I am not going to be interested any longer. Some makers will lock in a price no matter how long it takes for them to make the knife. Many will not.
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Ok, I'm going to chime in with some positive feedback about waiting lists(gonna try to stay out of the negative, at least for now). One reason I'm chiming in now, is due to Keith's reference of certain makers locking in prices. My opinion is that if you, the maker, take an order and quote a price, you need to stand by that. Here's a few examples of such makers and their integrity shining out, by their honoring the quoted prices. I'm a patient man; I don't mind waiting, just give me something to look forward to, is all I ask. No surprises, please.

Don Hanson. I waited a long time for knives by Don. I've known Don for many years, and some of these knives I ordered were from when he was still an unknown, selling plain fixed blades for under a hundred bucks. Don filled all my orders, and honored the old prices, even though he could've sold the knives for much more.

Kevin Cashen. Same situation. Kevin might've been a Mastersmith at the time I met him first, but his prices were very low at the time and his name was really not Worldwide yet. His prices are still very reasonable, but now his backlog is such that I can't really obtain his knives anymore, unless I get lucky at shows and catch him with one that hasn't seen customer's eyes yet. Kevin filled all my orders, and did so at the old prices.

Jerry Fisk. Similar situation, except Jerry was already pretty well known when I ordered a small stag fighter bowie from him. I provided a nice stag carver, and he quoted me a very reasonable price. Turned out to be VERY reasonable in the end. Years went by(maybe 6?) and Jerry Fisk became one of the best knifemakers in the World, and his price structure went up with his reputation as one of the best. I attended the Little Rock Custom Knife show a year or so ago, and Jerry came up to me and said, "Thank you for shopping at Walmart!". Yep, he handed me a Walmart bag, with a padded zipper case in it. What was supposed to be a 6.5"-7" bladed bowie ended up being an 8" fighter bowie, with double stainless guard and buttcap. All he asked me for was the price he quoted several years back. Jerry could've easily gotten 3 times what I paid, but he did the right thing.

I'm sure there are more stories I could tell, but I'll leave you with those. I won't get into the negative stories, unless somebody pokes me in the eye with a pointed stick. ;) :)
 
If a maker locks in a price and 5-6 years down the road honors it why is that surprising?

In that time he most likely became more efficient in what he was doing, taking less time to make the same knife.

I think that the ability to sell the knife for more than he quoted you is driven by the buying public, it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
 
Some makers that I talk to don't actually take orders. They put your name on a list and when your name gets near the top you then select the knife you want. That way there was never a price quoted until just before the knife gets made.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Some makers that I talk to don't actually take orders. They put your name on a list and when your name gets near the top you then select the knife you want. That way there was never a price quoted until just before the knife gets made.
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Which is exactly what they SHOULD be doing if their waiting list stretches much beyond two years.

Roger
 
I don't ask how much a special order it's going to cost. If I'm placing an order, I know enough about the maker to know how much he gets for a particular knife. And if I can't trust a maker, I will not be ordering a knife from him. It could be considered problematic, however has always worked for me.
 
Just to clarify my earlier post. I was only talking about the makers who choose to give a price when the order is placed. If the maker doesn't want to give me a price upon order, and simply puts me on the list until my name comes up(with the final price being current with delivery time), that's fine too. Truthfully, that's how I would do it, if I suddenly became a knifemaker with a huge fan base.
 
Danbo, I can't say, the ink in the old books have all faded, pages turned brown and falling apart......I can't read em. :o :D
 
Don Hanson III said:
Danbo, I can't say, the ink in the old books have all faded, pages turned brown and falling apart......I can't read em. :o :D
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Danbo, ..looks like you've been conveniently erased. ;)

This brings up the idea of "ancient" history. I wonder what the longest anyone here has ever 'waited' on a knife, received it - or still waiting? .
David
 
2knife said:
Danbo, ..looks like you've been conveniently erased. ;)

This brings up the idea of "ancient" history. I wonder what the longest anyone here has ever 'waited' on a knife, received it - or still waiting? .
David
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I just finished a small damascus fixed blade that was ordered around 9-10 years ago. Local guy and he has never contacted me, I had bumped into him in town a couple times and apologized :o but he said no hurry at all, nice guy :thumbup: I will deliver it today, in person. This is the last 'old' order, I am wrapping up lose ends :) Oh, and the price is, as quoted.
 
I tend to follow the same line of thinking as Josh.

In general, waiting lists represent a degree of security for a maker....meaning that as long as your physically able to work, you can put bread on the table and keep the wolf from the door. We also have many other responsibilities along with the waiting list. We must keep a presence at shows by having knives available, stay active within the knifemaking community, not to mention the responsibilities of everyday life. Generally as sole proprietors.

Waiting lists can also be a source of frustration for makers, if you happen to be dealing with a fickle client, that has too much time to think about what they've ordered. It seems about once a year I wind up taking an order that causes nothing by grief. Its usually obvious that the individual isn't all that savvy about custom/handmade knives, and you deal with this accordingly, however, some are not so easy to spot. The most recent event for me played out like this......

An individual called, and wanted to order a hunter of 52100. We discussed it, and I told the individual the expected waiting time, and quoted a price. All is good....right? Until the next week.... the individual calls and asks if we can change some things, and I say "Of course". So we discuss things, and when I mention that the "upgrade" will increase the price $XXX, the individual wants to know why the price is going up, because I had already quoted a price. I explain the increased costs of materials and time, and again I think things are good. OK, you can see where this is going. To make a long story short, the individual is calling nearly every other day, asking to change this or that about the order, and a simple hunter turns into a San Mai mosaic damascus piece, with VERY specific handle material, and ever detail mapped out. All the while the individual tries to trip me up with "OK, if this costs XX, and this costs XX, then if I do this, how much will it cost...."Whats the cost difference between this and this?" And on and on. All the while I'm doing my best to be as nice as possible, wanting to please the client. Due to the nature of the very specific handle material, which is not easy to locate/procure, I told the individual that things might be delayed until I could locate/procure the handle material he demanded, offered alternatives, but he still demanded it. I put out the "feelers" for the handle material, wait, and keep looking myself. A few months go by, and then out of the blue I get a nasty email from the individual, cursing me, canceling the order, and telling me that since I'm unwilling to fulfill my responsibility to him, he would do his best to ruin me as a knifemaker. In this case, I was really glad that I have a waiting list, because I believe that no matter what I would have done, the individual would have been a problem....likely for a long time after the knife was delivered. I'm sure that most makers who have been around a while have run into similar situations, and if not, consider yourselves blessed. Its very frustrating to invest such a huge amount of time and effort in a customer, only to be badgered the whole time, and cussed at in the end. I'm happy that I had a waiting list....I think it helped prevent a lot of future grief in this case.

The "Good Clients" who allow me to have some leeway in creating their knives (as Josh mentioned), are the ones who get the best pieces, because I really enjoy making them, whereas the ones like I mentioned above, who want to "box me in" get what they order, and nothing more. Not because I intentionally do anything to a lesser degree, but because there just isn't any joy in it.
 
Thanks for sharing that Ed. So many times we only hear the collector's side.

This type of information/experiences is good for both makers and collectors. :thumbup:
 
Ed,

This is why my preference is to have an order simply be a "spot" on the list, with the maker notifying me 30 days before he's ready to start work on the piece.

My order may change for a number of reasons:

1) My tastes / preferences have evolved in the intervening years.

2) My collection has evolved such that the knife initially contemplated might currently be of a type or configuration over-represented in my collection.

3) The maker's body of work has evolved and he now is able to offer a type of knife not available when the initial order was placed.

By having the maker contact me before the project starts, if the order changes at least it will only change once - and at a time proximate to commencement of work on the order. I generally ask the maker to be the one to initiate contact, because in my experience, orders over 1 year are EXTREMELY variable in terms of delivery. I don't want to be perceived as hounding and harassing the maker, because in fact I am very patient about delivery. So long as I get a heads-up, I don't mind in the least if my 18 month order in fact took 2 1/2 years to complete.

Roger
 
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