Waning appeal of super steel

dkb45

dkb45

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When I first got into super steels, I thought they were just the coolest thing. The technology, the increased performance, the overall cool factor. After living with the super steels for a while now, I noticed they are a lot less appealing than they used to be. As somebody who spends more time stropping his knives than using them, I find the "lesser" steels to be more fun. The payoff from stropping and less intensive sharpening are much more tangible, and the maintenance is much easier (a few licks on the stone, or a few minutes stropping and the edge is back to new). Am I alone in the waning love? Honestly if all of the designs I liked with super steels were made with steels like 440C or D2 I wouldn't have anything in super steels.
 
The traditional section might be appealing to you. M4 changed my world, heck ATS-34 changed my world in the late 90s. Buy better stones or get a sharpening system and reduce your sharpening time. Granted very well done 440C is on par with 154CM and D2 doesn't lag too far behind some of the super steels.
 
As much as I love my Randall Fireman(440B I believe) I still think my 3V blades and even my S30V from Strider are way too good to give up.
 
My daily knife usage is very low impact so these steels that are getting more and more wear resistant (and rust resistant) do appeal more to me. But yes, it's the overall design/ergos/feel of the knife that makes me like it - the blade steel is a secondary importance.
 
Skimo said:
The traditional section might be appealing to you. M4 changed my world, heck ATS-34 changed my world in the late 90s. Buy better stones or get a sharpening system and reduce your sharpening time. Granted very well done 440C is on par with 154CM and D2 doesn't lag too far behind some of the super steels.
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I can't do traditionals, one handed opening and pocket clips are my bread and butter!
 
Skimo said:
The traditional section might be appealing to you. M4 changed my world, heck ATS-34 changed my world in the late 90s. Buy better stones or get a sharpening system and reduce your sharpening time. Granted very well done 440C is on par with 154CM and D2 doesn't lag too far behind some of the super steels.
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My thoughts exactly and why I recently added 154cm and D2 to my repertoire instead of some of the pricier CPM steels... in a critical test environment they may prove slightly better but to the average user the difference doesn't justify the markup.
 
I have went through this phase,today I carried a ez-out jr in 420hc usa made and at work I used a leatherman xt-33(btw one of the most practical knives there is)
yeah a couple of passes on the ceramic and razor sharp again,

but still love s110v/s90v native,my xhp Recons ,etc....I am just happy that I have the luxury to carry both varieties.
 
Given the wide variety of edge dulling properties within identical-looking materials, there is no way you could tell most steels apart anyway. And 440B as Randall does it creams everything else chopping wood except D-2. This includes one S30V knife I tried...

Gaston
 
Gaston444 said:
Given the wide variety of edge dulling properties within identical-looking materials, there is no way you could tell most steels apart anyway
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I guess this could be seen as directed at the OP. Hopefully he will answer you. I can tell you that in my experience that this statement is completely untrue. Ridiculously so.

Gaston444 said:
And 440B as Randall does it creams everything else chopping wood except D-2. This includes one S30V knife I tried...
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Well you are the expert!
 
As an amateur I'm still quite enamored with so-called super steels, though i still get great enjoyment from 8CR13MOV, 154CM etc.
I think I understand where your coming from OP, I like the way 8CR13 for example is so satisfyingly easy to make heinously sharp, and how easy it is to straighten or touch up it's edge as it does roll pretty easily.

But I also enjoy the challenge of trying to get S90V/S110V very sharp, the long lasting stability of it's working edge, and figuring out how best to maintain that working edge.

Took me a while to come to grips with sharpening ZDP but seem to have that reasonably sorted now thanks to advice from BF people.

Differences between the various blade steels are becoming evident to me as I sharpen and use them more, learning about sharpening in particular has helped me see different characteristics in the small variety of steels I have among my modest folder collection.
Yet I still have, use and enjoy all the variety of higher and lower grade steels, each for it's own positives.
 
My experience with very high end steels is limited but I really enjoy CTS-XHP and CPM3V, both of which I think fit in the "super steel" category. Having said that I love simpler steels as Opinel and Mora do them. I also think steels like 52100 and VG10 are a good mid-way point; easy to maintain and can perform very well.

I have come to realise that I enjoy design more than steel alone Steel is certainly a component but it isn't everything.

...but I still want an Opinel 8 in S35VN :D
 
Steel names don't matter to me at all anymore. Actual use does. All those weird numbers and letter we drool over I think are way too often placebo effect. Not to mention brand names.

Once I really began to understand sharpening as a process, rather than as a recipe, and understand the effect of geometry, it turns out that the supposed superiority of super steels began to level out.

A good heat treatment, now that's something I might go after. But almost nobody guarantees that, which is a ridiculous oversight IMO, even if only as a marketing angle. And even fewer makers can provide proof of a good heat treat. So knife nuts have to rely on faith, unless a blade is really terribly done in a glaringly obvious way. Which is why I take almost every testimonial with a grain of salt. After all, fans gotta fan, makers gotta plug their stuff, and honest reviews that expose warts are not always welcomed.
 
I've never cared too much about specific steels used provided the steel used is of good quality and the heat treatment (far more important to me) is good. The most important considerations, for me, are the way a knife is designed and how well the company's heat treatment is known to be. I think we generally place way, way too much emphasis on the steel used and not enough on overall design. It's becoming a marketing thing, and it annoys me.

I'll definitely pick up a super steel if I see it at a good price, however! Big fan of Aogami Super Blue and S30V, and I'm going to try HAP40 next.
 
dagnabit, i thought i was the only one. nowadays i'm daydreaming of having an array of slipjoints, friction, liner locks, and a full spectrum of fixed blades, all in either 1095 or O-1. however, my spyderco military s30v stays with me at all times :D the steel is cleaner for cutting food and it's still the best EDC configuration i have.
 
craytab said:
I guess this could be seen as directed at the OP. Hopefully he will answer you. I can tell you that in my experience that this statement is completely untrue. Ridiculously so.



Well you are the expert!
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yah, think. Pure INternet Bologna.
 
Good HT'd S30V will still blow away the average consumer's mind. It is still priced accordingly. I definitely still love to play around with different materials but I strongly prefer a jack-of-all-trades blade steel 90% of the time. If I have a knife that is a user and I am willing to risk bumbles, fumbles and drops I want to be able to fix it with a standard issue sharpening method. In comparison with the vast majority of blades out there, they would not be considered easy to sharpen, but they are manageable for me, so S30V and S35VN are my bread and butter.
 
I think the cost increases in almost every style/market across the board for the last 3-4 years has caused a waning in certain items. There is almost a uniform 15%-25% increase in price in almost every brand in the recent past, that has put many items out f budget to a lot of people. Not all knives have seen this increase, but enough to make the community at large take notice. Almost all manufacturers are not selling items at MAP and have some kind of unilateral pricing policy in place to protect the value of their product. Makes sense, but at the same time it can make it hard for those that used to be able to afford some items to continue to do so. THere is always a group that will not be affected by price increases because they just have larger bank rolls than the rest. Even traditional knives have seen this. Knives that should or used to cost say $75-$100 are now $100-$150 or more.
 
dkb45 said:
When I first got into super steels, I thought they were just the coolest thing. The technology, the increased performance, the overall cool factor. After living with the super steels for a while now, I noticed they are a lot less appealing than they used to be. As somebody who spends more time stropping his knives than using them, I find the "lesser" steels to be more fun. The payoff from stropping and less intensive sharpening are much more tangible, and the maintenance is much easier (a few licks on the stone, or a few minutes stropping and the edge is back to new). Am I alone in the waning love? Honestly if all of the designs I liked with super steels were made with steels like 440C or D2 I wouldn't have anything in super steels.
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You're not alone.

I'm pretty good at sharpening and kinda like doing it. Up to a certain point. I don't want to dedicate my day to getting an edge back. I don't want to have to buy specialized equipment to do it faster and more easily. Knives cease to be fun when using them involves drudgery and unnecessary expense.

I'm sure there are many on these forums who use their knives daily in their work or hobby who need the attributes of exotic super steel and have the tools to keep it sharp. Others probably think they need it or just want it based on praise in reviews, blogs and forum posts. Still others are collectors. All good reasons to buy knives.

The knives I carry the most are VG-10 and 154CM. They do everything I need. I also have D2, M4, S30V and S35VN in occasional rotation. All nice knives and I love 'em. But I would love 'em just as much if they were made with 154CM steel instead.
 
Rev nailed it pretty much. The cost is more than I want to spend lately. Also, high wear resistance is of no advantage in my work knives. They don't wear dull slowly. They get damaged or they wear dull in material that will dull anything in 2 or 3 cuts, like cutting caulk joints between concrete panels. Once or twice hitting the concrete and no steel is sharp. Kinda like an S90V chef's knife for someone using a glass cutting board or ceramic plate.
 
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