Waning appeal of super steel

Gaston444 said:
440B as Randall does it creams everything else chopping wood except D-2. This includes one S30V knife I tried...
Gaston
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If this was true don't you think we would be seeing more large choppers made from 440b or D2?
 
I don't share that sentiment...

It's amazing and I consider myself (as well as all other knife nuts!) lucky to be able to have such an array of blade steels available for easy purchase.

My typical users range from M4 to M390, to ZDP189; there's still plenty out there that outperform those listed that I have not tried but want to...

4V, 10V, higher HRC S110V, etc just to name a few...

Even 3V's heat treat protocols in the last little while have enhanced the overall performance - even corrosion resistance is improved so there IS a difference and it can be noticed quite easily.


If you don't believe there is a noticeable difference in steels please refer to Ankerson's cut test thread; great data there from real world cutting use. :thumbup::cool:
 
Gaston444 said:
Given the wide variety of edge dulling properties within identical-looking materials, there is no way you could tell most steels apart anyway. And 440B as Randall does it creams everything else chopping wood except D-2. This includes one S30V knife I tried...

Gaston
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For some steels I don't notice the difference, but I can easily identify S30V due to its awful razor edge retention. I also can identify the wear resistance of most super steels, especially when I forget how long I have been reprofiling. Now if you want me to identify the individual steels? I ain't got no super powers.
 
I use one of my knives everyday to mask cars off before I paint, and the advantage is I noticed the edge the steel takes and maintains and since I'm cutting paper and thin plastic m390 and elmax have worked great for me
 
I want a good quality steel, but will not pay extra anymore for a "supersteel". I think the difference is sharpening ability, becasue the better I became the less that overall edge holding mattered to me. However, I do want steel that takes a nice edge.
 
It depends on the context of use. If I was cutting high volumes of abrasive media I'd probably see more benefit from "super steels" than I currently do. But most of the work I do is with target media wayyyyyy softer than hardened cutlery steel and as a result even low-alloy carbon steel of spring temper holds a sufficient edge and the ease of touch-ups trumps the increase in abrasive wear resistance because most of the situations where I do experience dulling are ones that would dull any knife no matter what the steel, and those are few and far between. I think that companies are often over-aggressive in their marketing of super steels because it's an easy way drive up interest even if the intended context of use for the knife doesn't necessitate that kind of steel. I don't care too much about specific steel as long as the general steel type is appropriate for the intended functional context and the heat treatment and geometry are good.
 
I still prefer the super steels when available.

My EDC rotation contains
1- 154cm
2- D2
3- S30V
1- M390
1- S90V
2- S110V
2- Cruwear

In my work knives there is 1- 154CM and 2- M4. Out of 15 knives there are 8 that would be considered super steel. They would all be super steel if they were available that way. Some of them I would not have if they weren't super steel.
 
Czechmate said:
That'd be okay if they were cheap and the heat treat protocols were optimized... :thumbup:;)
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I think you missed my point. I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with 440b what I was saying is that if it was really so great for wood chopping how come we don't see any large choppers made from it?
 
fsatsil said:
I think you missed my point. I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with 440b what I was saying is that if it was really so great for wood chopping how come we don't see any large choppers made from it?
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Not only that but Gaston claimed that 440b would "cream" everything else.
 
dkb45 said:
When I first got into super steels, I thought they were just the coolest thing. The technology, the increased performance, the overall cool factor. After living with the super steels for a while now, I noticed they are a lot less appealing than they used to be. As somebody who spends more time stropping his knives than using them, I find the "lesser" steels to be more fun. The payoff from stropping and less intensive sharpening are much more tangible, and the maintenance is much easier (a few licks on the stone, or a few minutes stropping and the edge is back to new). Am I alone in the waning love? Honestly if all of the designs I liked with super steels were made with steels like 440C or D2 I wouldn't have anything in super steels.
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I find stropping kinda relaxing, I strop my edc blades daily sometimes twice. Then I randomly go thru my collection and strop a few here and there whether they've been used or not lately. I get what you're saying thou, simpler steels respond to stropping a lot faster and easier than "super steels", but I do like it on my knives I use daily.

The longer it'll hold an edge means less time I have to spend sharpening, which means less steel being removed, which means the knife will last me that much longer. The knives that only come out for fun I don't worry about as much bc they won't need sharpened as often anyway and I can just strop to maintain them.
Gaston444 said:
Given the wide variety of edge dulling properties within identical-looking materials, there is no way you could tell most steels apart anyway. And 440B as Randall does it creams everything else chopping wood except D-2. This includes one S30V knife I tried...

Gaston
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Yup no one would ever see any difference in how much longer s110v, 3v, or any other modern steel holds an edge compared to 440or 420. [emoji57]

It's always nice to be able to count on your vast wisdom to chime in on a post.
 
fsatsil said:
I think you missed my point. I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with 440b what I was saying is that if it was really so great for wood chopping how come we don't see any large choppers made from it?
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No, I got it. ;):thumbup:
 
Bobby3326 said:
.

Yup no one would ever see any difference in how much longer s110v, 3v, or any other modern steel holds an edge compared to 440 or 420.
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Quoted for truth... ;):D:thumbup::rolleyes:

420j2 and rostafrei are my new go-to's now for knives.

















:rolleyes::thumbdn:
 
Czechmate said:
Quoted for truth... ;):D[emoji106]:rolleyes:

420j2 and rostafrei are my new go-to's now for knives.

















:rolleyes::thumbdn:
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420j2 is an awesome steel, it holds an edge waaaaaay longer than any of those high dollar fancy smancy yuppie steels that those corporate folks are trying to trick us into buying with fancy names like cpm. I'd put one those awesome $4 Ozark trail knives against any modern steel knives any day.[emoji6] [emoji57]
 
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Ive been wondering g about what the actual definition of a super steel is? Is it any steel made with partical metallurgy or similar technology? Or is it about the performance of the steel? High carbide volume?
 
fsatsil said:
Ive been wondering g about what the actual definition of a super steel is? Is it any steel made with partical metallurgy or similar technology? Or is it about the performance of the steel? High carbide volume?
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It is about as definable as "hard use" or "survival knife" or "tactical". I don't like these defining terms. Why can't we just take things for their attributes rather than put them in categories. So many steels have been considered super steels it is a joke now. Means nothing. It is used a lot now as a negative term. Like in this thread.
 
Knife-Super-Steels-Are-They-Really-Super.png



To be taken with a grain of salt:

http://www.bladescout.com/knife-super-steels-are-they-really-super/

Bladescout needs to get better acquainted with modern super steels; the ones listed in the article have been surpassed by quite a large margin and are not great examples. (the article is from Dec. 2015!!!)
 
Bobby3326 said:
Yup no one would ever see any difference in how much longer s110v, 3v, or any other modern steel holds an edge compared to 440or 420. [emoji57]

It's always nice to be able to count on your vast wisdom to chime in on a post.
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Friendly advice: Don't put any money at risk on you figuring out the difference in a blind test... I could understand anyone here feeling confident that could tell a super-steel from a Chinese "mystery" steel after passing hundreds of blind tests... But the fact is none of you have the means to ever make any blind tests, or even have the slightest conception of how they are necessary to even begin to talk the way you do... And yet you speak as if you had made it through hundreds of blind tests and passed them with flying colors...

Let me put it this way, given the colossal amount of variables, and greater still potential for user-induced bias, not to mention the lack of microscopes to check the true condition of the edges you are comparing, or the materials they are cutting, what do you think would be a scientist's likely opinion of your pronouncements?

The best clue that you are clueless is this: Among the largest variable of any steel's edge holding ability is probably the basic cleanness of the edge material... Depending on source, you could have the same steel clean or dirty, and it will still pass basic industry standards (which you don't know what they are anyway): Yet NEVER on this forum have I seen the issue of steel cleanness discussed..

Why? Because none of you have the means to evaluate steel cleanliness to begin with, which requires an expensive lab, so the issue doesn't even exist for you... Yet for aircraft performance you can bet they do check aluminium for cleanness... That is why it is called "aircraft quality aluminium".

Because doing that boosts the costs to aeronautical levels, $1500 bolts and so on, I'll break shocking news to you: Your knives get basic industrial crud, but some industrial crud is cleaner than other, and you ignore it because you have no means to check for any of it anyway... That's how confident a scientist would be that you'd make it through a blind test...

Gaston
 
Gaston444 said:
Friendly advice: Don't put any money at risk on you figuring out the difference in a blind test... I could understand anyone here feeling confident that could tell a super-steel from a Chinese "mystery" steel after passing hundreds of blind tests... But the fact is none of you have the means to ever make any blind tests, or even have the slightest conception of how they are necessary to even begin to talk the way you do... And yet you speak as if you had made it through hundreds of blind tests and passed them with flying colors...

Let me put it this way, given the colossal amount of variables, and greater still potential for user-induced bias, not to mention the lack of microscopes to check the true condition of the edges you are comparing, or the materials they are cutting, what do you think would be a scientist's likely opinion of your pronouncements?

The best clue that you are clueless is this: Among the largest variable of any steel's edge holding ability is probably the basic cleanness of the edge material... Depending on source, you could have the same steel clean or dirty, and it will still pass basic industry standards (which you don't know what they are anyway): Yet NEVER on this forum have I seen the issue of steel cleanness discussed..

Why? Because none of you have the means to evaluate steel cleanliness to begin with, which requires an expensive lab, so the issue doesn't even exist for you... Yet for aircraft performance you can bet they do check aluminium for cleanness... That is why it is called "aircraft quality aluminium".

Because doing that boosts the costs to aeronautical levels, $1500 bolts and so on, I'll break shocking news to you: Your knives get basic industrial crud, but some industrial crud is cleaner than other, and you ignore it because you have no means to check for any of it anyway... That's how confident a scientist would be that you'd make it through a blind test...

Gaston
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Watch out! Know it all Gaston is telling everyone how it is again!

Please continue telling us how stupid we are o wise one! Regale us with your tales of 440b, Andy Roney, and EDCing 9" bladed hollow handle knives IWB....
 
Gaston444 said:
Friendly advice: Don't put any money at risk on you figuring out the difference in a blind test... I could understand anyone here feeling confident that could tell a super-steel from a Chinese "mystery" steel after passing hundreds of blind tests... But the fact is none of you have the means to ever make any blind tests, or even have the slightest conception of how they are necessary to even begin to talk the way you do... And yet you speak as if you had made it through hundreds of blind tests and passed them with flying colors...

Let me put it this way, given the colossal amount of variables, and greater still potential for user-induced bias, not to mention the lack of microscopes to check the true condition of the edges you are comparing, or the materials they are cutting, what do you think would be a scientist's likely opinion of your pronouncements?

The best clue that you are clueless is this: Among the largest variable of any steel's edge holding ability is probably the basic cleanness of the edge material... Depending on source, you could have the same steel clean or dirty, and it will still pass basic industry standards (which you don't know what they are anyway): Yet NEVER on this forum have I seen the issue of steel cleanness discussed..

Why? Because none of you have the means to evaluate steel cleanliness to begin with, which requires an expensive lab, so the issue doesn't even exist for you... Yet for aircraft performance you can bet they do check aluminium for cleanness... That is why it is called "aircraft quality aluminium".

Because doing that boosts the costs to aeronautical levels, $1500 bolts and so on, I'll break shocking news to you: Your knives get basic industrial crud, but some industrial crud is cleaner than other, and you ignore it because you have no means to check for any of it anyway... That's how confident a scientist would be that you'd make it through a blind test...

Gaston
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Blah blah blah..... If you can't tell the difference between a blade made from 420 jc and s110v after making 50 cuts into cardboard then you likely shouldn't be allowed to possess a knife bc you obviously lack the mental capacity to use it correctly....I don't need expensive equipment or a Damn lab to tell a dull knife from a still sharp knife.

I call [emoji191] [emoji90] on the nonsense you say.
 
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