Warning and advice for liner lock owners!

Sal, I repeat. Bob T told me himself in NY that he whacks the back of the blade on his work bench to set the lock when he's making a liner lock. I have had my ATCF in my pocket everyday(except for one week to have a clip added) since buying it at the Nov.'99 NY Custom Show. I use it everyday, it has never failed.
I agree, the original problem in this thread should have been handled by going directly to Spyderco or Sal himself, he's very accessible and a good guy(wouldn't expect anything else, he's originally a NYer) :D

Dave
 
A number of custom makers set the lock that way. Sal, have you taken that position because you've seen some catastrophic failure from liner locks that had to be "set"? Or are you just taking an agressive position towards lock safety, that the liner lock she be able to handle a spine whack in the first place without having to set it?

Joe
 
The "setting" of a linerlock is usually done to knock the burr off. Often times, setting "too hard" can score the tang or flatten the corner of the lock depending on materials.

As a Guild member for many years (22), I have looked at thousands of custom linerlocks. I believe that our (Spyderco's) linerlocks would compare quite favorably against custom linerlocks. We use features like offset arc ramps which we taught to Bob T.

Thanx for the confidence Joe.

sal
 
Originally posted by GigOne
...I've been paying attention and I've yet to read nor see substantial proof that liner locks fail. I do hear, periodically, where Joe Blow (no pun intended) gets in his kitchen and scientifically tests "his" theory that a "spine whack" test is proof that a liner lock fails. lol
Click to expand...

Gig One:

Liner locks are fine... as long as you don't expect them to hold reliably under extreme conditions, such as those "tactical" folders are conceived, designed, manufactured, and marketed to function under.

Further - given the fact that I can rely on certain folders to stay locked under certain conditions that simulate the real world intended use of those folders - a folder that does not stay locked under those conditions is no longer considered acceptable.

When I take a folder, tape it to a stick, whack it on the spine with another stick, and it stays locked open, I think here is a knife I can rely on in a fight. When I repeat the above simulation with another folder and it does not remain locked open, I think here is a knife that I would like to sell to somebody who doesn't have such high standards.

Maybe the stick wasn't real. Maybe all the blade and knuckle bashing that goes on when I train is just imaginary. Maybe all those liner lock knives buckling from a tap on the spine was just a dream. Ya, maybe those liner locks were not really failing in the real world. I was just testing them wrong. :rolleyes:

Until I have honed my fighting skills to the point that I never make thrusts that put closing pressure on the lock of a knife, oh, and that never get deflected, I will carry folders with the most reliable locks I can find.

BS? Whacked? Please calm yourself. If liner locks are good enough for you, that's fine with me. I hope you will excuse me for finding out that there are more reliable locks out there.
 
I can beat the snot out of my Axis-equipped 710 with anything, in any direction. I can't do that with any linerlock knives.

I am not going to pretend that this is trivial.
 
Thanks for the advice Sal. In fairness I did send an e-mail on Friday or early Sat about this. I was trying to find a fix and avoid returning the knife all the way to America (it is an Internet purchas so either way it will cost the same). Still I agree the knife still fails the test badly. All it takes is a couple of whacks after about ten mins and it fails again. To reiterate the point I did not hammer this knife at first and when I did 'abuse' it I am only talking about a little bit above average force onto a paper back book held in my hand. Nothing like a heavy impact, it certainly has not made the knife any worse or shows any damage that I can see. A light tap onto a book or my palm is and was all it took then and now, however it is slightly better now than before. Do you want me to e-mail through your site again? Cheers!
 
Here is an excerpt of the letter I sent to MT regarding my microbar failure, (which they did fix and so far is working fine):

2-23-01

Microtech
Micro Technology
932 36th Court, S.W.
Vero Beach, FL 32968

RA # 2342
Socom Elite #1483, and mini socom

Dear warranty dept. of MT,

This letter is in reference to the problems with two of my microtech knives. I have only been a serious knife buyer/user the past 3 months. Previously I have always used knives as tools, however they were always of minimal quality and replaced often.

I have purchased 9 microtech knives during the past three months. I have enclosed the blue warranty cards for your files, also the two knives warranty cards that are on this RA # are stapled to this letter. The other 7 warranty cards are also enclosed for your use and filing.

My first and most serious problem is with my Socom Elite. I was using this knife last weekend when the microbar lock popped out and allowed the blade to close partially. I was out in the yard cutting some dried annuals out of the beds (about like cutting dried corn stalks) and was using firm cutting with the elite and had been working for around 15-20 minutes - no problems. I buried the blade in a thicker stem and was pulling it up and out when pop, the lock popped out! (liner lock moved to the side to the closing position and the blade partially closed) I was very shocked. This was the first knife I ever had do this to me. I felt the click and immediately released my grip. I had been using this Elite as a user for the last 3 months and never had a problem. I never had spine tested it, I didn't think I had to. Upon further examination I found I could pop the lock with light to moderate spine tapping (not whacking) on the upper third of the spine on my wooden workbench in the basement. I was once again shocked. I was holding the body of the knife just with my fingers on the sides of the knife and in my palm (no need for a glove) and I was able to have the microbar fail every third to fifth tap.

etc. etc. etc.
 
Yes Steve,

:)

I just had to jump into the fray, they were referencing my problem above and I just felt the need (once again) to provide proof of linerlock failure occuring once in a while.

Wade
 
Wade, did you get any explanation from Microtech regarding your liner-lock failures? Was they adjusted wrong? Out of tolerance? Weak springs? Not that it means a whole lot, other than backing up the fact that liner-locks are hard to get right the first time.
 
Just to add to the thread. I recently purchased a "name brand" liner lock based on a custom design which I liked. The company is not one of the big ones but most people here would recgonize it. The workmanship of the knife was quite good and it was razor sharp. I thought I had bought myself a fine folder (at a good deal too) till I tested the lock. I whacked the back of the blade into the palm of my hand and the blade folded ! I didn't even hit it hard. The blade caught my index finger and I took nine stitches. I'm healed now but have a scar and a hospital bill. I threw the knife away,and now stick to my tried and true folders. It was the first time I cut myself seriously enough to need stitches but I learned. I tested all my linerlock folders (Spyderco and Benchmade) by using the spine whack,after I covered the blade, and they all passed.

If I purchase any more folders I'm sticking with the companies with a high reputation for quality and testing them to make sure. I hope this does not happen to anybody else.
 
Sorry. . .been out of pocket for a short spell. . .

Was rather surprised to come back and see all of the posts referring to me. Thanks Rockspyder, S.Douglas, Steve Harvey and CommodoreFirst for your comments regarding the "spine whack" theory. But, as usual ~ when it comes to "da spinal test". . .I've yet to to see any "proof" that your "spine whack" testing is valid ! Not that I was expecting to see any "proof" anyway. Call it being closed minded. . . Hard to be opened minded when my experiences have concluded that the liner locks that I own have yet to fail. . .again if used appropriately. And. . .the operative word is "appropriately."

Please don't take this wrong. . .lots of talk but your theories have yet to walk the walk. But. . .what your theories do prove. . .ya need to buy a fixed blade ! Harder than hell to get that blade to fold on da fingers no matter how hard ya whack the spine ! lol :rolleyes: And there would still be complainting !

Don't get too upset. YMMV. . ."Your Mileage May Vary". . . meaning, this was my experience, yours might be different!"
 
Hey Rock,

No, MT did not offer any statement regarding the knife. It came back and did not have the problem. They might have adjusted the microbar or replaced the springs? Don't know.

And GigOne, can you please tell me what was inappropriate regarding my use of the elite? Just curious:confused:

Wade
 
Originally posted by grantdouglas
I whacked the back of the blade into the palm of my hand and the blade folded ! I didn't even hit it hard. The blade caught my index finger and I took nine stitches.
Click to expand...
Umm. Just as a word of advice, if you're going to whack the blade to see if it folds, try not to hold it so that you get cut if it folds.

Sorry you had to get stitches, but, man, this is really funny to me. If you are intending to find out if the lock is safe, why would you hold it so that it can cut you?

Granted, I'm sure it was just an accident. Still...
 
Originally posted by GigOne
But, as usual ~ when it comes to "da spinal test". . .I've yet to to see any "proof" that your "spine whack" testing is valid ! Not that I was expecting to see any "proof" anyway. Call it being closed minded. . . Hard to be opened minded when my experiences have concluded that the liner locks that I own have yet to fail. . .again if used appropriately. And. . .the operative word is "appropriately."
Click to expand...

What do you need for proof? Do you need for somebody to do the spine whack test, see the knife fail, then go ahead and use the knife and cut himself when the knife folds as he accidentally hits the spine of the knife? That's just plain foolish. I take it you look at the example above where the guy accidentally hit the spine and it folded and just totally discount it as a figment of fantasy, or invalid because he hadn't already done the 'spine-whack' test. Again, that's just plain foolish. But if you're still maintaining that the spine-whack is an invalid test, then.....
 
Just wanted to add some more detail chaps. I have tried all my knives no for the spine whack test and two other blades failed with ease.

They were a CRK&T M16-03Z and a Benchmade 855.

Of interst is how they failed with discraceful ease while knives like all my other M16's and my Mini AFCK passed with flying colours! The Camillus 154CM EDC was noteworthy for how ROCK solid it is.

The M16 that failed was the Zytel model. Other CRK&T blades that passed were a Seahawk and large Kasper.

It goes without saying that my Sebenza was the best at this test... or was it my MOD CQD DD?:p

I am not that bothered with the CRK&T M16Z as it is not a knife I like much or carry anymore, the Benchmade is a pity though, its very cute. Cute = weak? Not so the EDC from Camillus well done Will!
 
Originally posted by GigOne
Please don't take this wrong. . .lots of talk but your theories have yet to walk the walk...
Click to expand...

You are just putting your fingers in your ears and going, "La, la, la, la, la, la" to get a reaction.

OK, so liner locks are good enough for you. You are welcome to them.
 
Gigone,

I sincerely hope that you never become a believer in the Spine Whack.

I say this because at this point I believe that the only thing that would cause you to believe would be a failure of one of your Linerlocks and I would prefer to have you disagree than suffer severely cut fingers.
 
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