Warranty Issues

For those that have worked in a production setting, this will be familiar.

Anything that is built has tolerances it has to be built to. These are spelled out in it's specifications that the maker uses. Each part has to be built to tolerances, and when it is completed it has to be whithin specifications.

The more perfect the product, the more time and labor it takes, so naturally the higher the price.

Spyderco could put every knife together to the tolerances needed to make a knife you'd expect from the best custom knifesmith. The prices would be similar to the best customs, and the production would naturally go down.

Even at that, nothing is perfect. It's just closer tolerances and finer finishes. ( BTW, tolerances can mean leaving enough distance between parts to allow them to pass by smoothly where needed, not just as close as you can fit something together)

Without getting sarcastic, or being a smartass I'd just like to say that if Spyderco products aren't doing it for you, perhaps it is time to move up to that custom knife.

Expect higher prices and waiting times. This is just the way it is. Even they won't be perfect, but hopefully will have closer tolerances, finer finishes, etc.

W&R is typically trained in cases like this to check out the knife and see if the knife passes the spec's that it had to pass when it was initially accepted by Spyderco from the makers. If it is within specs they can send it back with an explanation, or take the time to hand fit parts to closer tolerances, ie make you a custom knife.

Being as they have a small company with a small W&R section the second option, even if they charged you for the man hours needed, isn't a practical one.

Last I heard there are or were under 40 spyderco employees total.

I really doubt wether the employees have the time, energy or desire to get online and flame people who complain about spyderco knives. That statement was just plain silly.

As far as Kershaw sending someone a liner lock to refit a knife with I can't argue that. I buy Kershaws too , and like their company greatly. I've seen the way they try to make people happy. Thomas W. is a great guy and he has helped me out personally before too. Thomas W used to work at Spyderco , If I'm not mistaken.

I will say that Kershaw is taking a chance by sending out "liner locks" to people outside their control and not covered by their insurance. Hand fitting a liner lock should only be done by a trained, experienced knifemaker. If it was my company I would fire the person that mailed out a liner lock to a customer. The A.O. springs, no problem. A liner lock? That's a whole different level of expertise needed.

No offense meant to anyone here. Just my opinions. Yes, I have worked production before. Not at Spyderco though. Joe
 
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tummler said:
It's not just you... LOL... I wouldn't doubt if all the employees of spyderco get on the forums just to spam the "praise spyderco customer service" threads... ;)
of course, "pobody's nerfect"- but I don't believe spyderco was indeed "extending our best effort to conduct business in a proper manner" LOL... I, for one, will continue to say their customer service SUCKS
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Amen Brother! I would bet on that as well.
Maybe one of the Die-Hard Spyderfanatics would gladly love to Buy such a Fine piece of Equipment off of you for the price you paid for it, plus the Cost of the Difference....But I seriously doubt it.
 
Tomohawk: Oh, no. Now you're over here! You joined the Spyderco Forum in April 2008 over there too. Everything you posted was to bad mouth Spyderco and start arguments with the members there and promote your like for Cold Steel knives. You got banned from the Spyderco Site just a couple of days ago and now you're over here starting the same BS! Damn, get a life!:mad:

If you don't like Spydercos, dont' buy em.

Start with post# 193:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5650587#post5650587

Moderators: Keep an eye on this guy, he's been banned from "several" other sites for doing the exact thing he's starting here.

Cool, I found the "Ignore" option.;)
 
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pkdmslf said:
Tomohawk: Oh, no. Now you're over here! You got banned from the Spyderco Forums just a couple of days ago. Now you come over here to the Spyderco thread and start again! Damn, get a life!:mad:
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Some people never learn.
 
pkdmslf said:
Tomohawk: Oh, no. Now you're over here! You joined the Spyderco Forum in April 2008 over there too. Everything you posted was to bad mouth Spyderco and start arguments with the members there and promote your like for Cold Steel knives. You got banned from the Spyderco Site just a couple of days ago and now you're over here starting the same BS! Damn, get a life!:mad:

If you don't like Spydercos, dont' buy em.

Start with post# 193:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5650587#post5650587

Moderators: Keep an eye on this guy, he's been banned from "several" other sites for doing the exact thing he's starting here.

Cool, I found the "Ignore" option.;)
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1. I was never Bad-Mouthing Spyderco... as a matter of Fact, I praised them on many accounts. Nothing wrong with some of their products. Its the Fanatics who can't let others speak their mind that I have a Problem with.:jerkit: But I guess its totally aceptable for people to badmouth other companies all the time though?

2. I Won't be buying anymore Spyderco's, Just based solely on the attitude of the users/collectors.:thumbdn: (I.E. if it aint Spyderco, its crap, and your stupid for having an opinion that states otherwise!)

3. How does the one Spyderco Forum consist of "Several other sites" :rolleyes:(this is the type of exaggeration crap I'm talking about.)
 
Gentlemen, please Do Not Feed The Trolls. We see the same negative comments from certain posters constantly. Don't respond to them. Put them on Ignore, continue with a real discussion, without feeding their need for attention.
 
Tomahawk23, if you won't be buying Spydercos and you don't like the attitude of the others here, what are you doing on a Spyderco forum? Be careful you don't get banned from here also for trolling.

One foot on the banana peel already ...
 
Everyone including companies can have bad days. If the knife is within Spyderco's set tolerances there is no repair necessary. My issue was being denied an exchange on a knife that was removed from its box, looked at, photographed, replaced in its box and returned. The knife was not "used" any marks on the scales I feel occurred during manufacture or packaging.

I have many other Spyderco's that I have no issues with, some even have small blemishes. In my case the raised lock bar really bothered me, to others it may not. None of my other Spyderco lock backs demonstrate this issue, so I figure there are many and likely more D4-G10s that don't express this issue then do. I think it is an outlier even if it is within the defined tolerances. So if exchanging my in tolerance D4-G10 with another more in tolerance D4-G10 makes me the customer happy why not.

If I am wrong and the majority of D4-G10s display this trait they could have explained that the other D4-G10s they have also display this trait, so they have no other samples to exchange it with, I can understand that.

I have attached pictures so everyone can make their own judgment. Some with agree some wont, I would hope the comments can remain constructive though. For those that said I should have called or emailed them detailing the issue I have copied the email I sent below.

Subject:C11GPFG Lockback issue

Spyderco,

I just received a G10 Delica. The lock does not sit flush with the handle in the open position. The lock sits slightly higher then the scales near the blade and lower near the release. While this does not cause the knife not to function, it is a issue none of my other spyderco knifes have. Sadly this fit and finish issue will leave the knife collecting dust in my draw and not my pocket where it belongs. I hope a simple repair or replacement can be arranged.

I am willing to send pictures or the knife if your willing to take a look at it.

Thanks,
XXXX

RE:C11GPFG Lockback issue

Pictures will not help. Please send your knife in for evaluation. When you send your knife in please a note stating what you need done to your knife along with your name, return address (no P.O. Box please, UPS does not ship to PO Boxes) and daytime phone number that you can be reached at incase we have any questions.


Spyderco
820 Spyderco Way
Golden CO 80403


Thank you and have a great day,

XXXXXXXXXX
Customer service


NGK as offered to address my concern so at this point the issue is resolved. I didn't come away with the Spyderco CS experience I was expecting, but to their credit if it went smooth I would likely not have posted about the experience.
 
Emerge411, The passing tolerance inspection seems to be part of the reason they didn't replace the knife. They didn't want to switch because it is marked or scuffed up, and can't be sold as new according to your other post . I'll paste the pertinent part from your other post.

So I decided I would send it back to Spyderco to see if they could repair or replace it. After a few quick pictures I replaced it back in its box and bubble wrap. I UPS'ed it back to Golden for $10+. After getting back from a business trip today a box from Golden was sitting on my desk. It contains my knife and a letter saying the knife is within QA tolerance levels and "Your knife blade does not look used but there are two marks on the handles and because the knife, in it's present condition cannot be re-sold as new, we will not be able to accommodate your request for an exchange."
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The scuffs or marks do show up in the pictures. Wether any of us agree or not isn't the issue, That's what spyderco decided. I personally would have liked to see W&R replace the knife for you but I don't make descisions for Spyderco.

I've been happy with spyderco. I have some knives that I can't find flaws on, and some like yours that aren't visually perfect but still functionally as good as any others. I've never felt the need to return them. In all fairness I've got around a hundred currently and the flawed ones are I'd guess less than 5. 2 or 3 perhaps.

There are lots of different kinds of customers. Good luck, Joe
 
Agreed. Its just frustrating to me to be told the "the knife, in it's present condition cannot be re-sold as new" when it is in the exact condition as I received it, when I was sold it, as new...

Do they really feel that the knife could not have been in that condition when I received it new? This is a decision the CS representative must make. I know the marks on the scale existed new out of the box. Since the marks on the scale disqualify it from being sold as new... then my knife was out of tolerances and should have been replaced. Does this mean if i asked for an exchange because of the two small marks on the scale it would have been granted? </tangent>

The main issue here with Spyderco CS is I think they approached the question of exchanging my knife based on if they could resell it. I feel this is wrong. The decision should be based on whether I used the knife. Imagine if I were to receive a shiny new Spyderco. I then break the seal on the box but never remove the knife. I can then send it to Spyderco CS for an exchange and have that exchange denied because "the knife, in it's present condition cannot be re-sold as new" due to a small cosmetic flaw from the factory.

I think just like my issue with the lock back Spyderco CS should recognize that knifes new from the factory may have small issues, manufacturing tolerances apply here too.

I don't think my exchange would have been denied if the CS representative asked them selfs if the customer caused the issue that makes the knife unable to be resold, or is it within the tolerances of a knife coming off the manufacturing/shipping floor? If I was the CS representative I don't think the two small marks can be definitely determined to be caused by the customer(me) or manufacture. In which case I would hope the company would error on the side of the customer. Why risk burning a customer because of an issue they didn't cause? Were all human and can have good days or bad. I hope that maybe my feedback here can help Spyderco CS avoid this issue in the future.

I know how good the fit&finish on a Spyderco can be so when I received this D4-G10 I knew there had to be better examples of it out there. I hope to find it and will post my results.
 
Michael Dye said:
411, I think you were correct in sending the knife to Spyderco first. That is where it will end up anyway. Just a more direct path most of the time.
I assure you the knife was not "used" here at the store. The lock-up in you picture is not that uncommon in Spyderco or other brands. (understand, I have looked at tens of thousands of knives in my tender years). But all that said, if you're not happy, we're not happy. Send her back...we'll see if we got something better.
md
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Exactly why I purchase my knives and etcetera (just purchased a dozen surefire batteries which arrived in abouy a day :thumbup:) from New Graham.
 
emerge411 said:
In my case the raised lock bar really bothered me, to others it may not. None of my other Spyderco lock backs demonstrate this issue, so I figure there are many and likely more D4-G10s that don't express this issue then do. I think it is an outlier even if it is within the defined tolerances.
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For what its worth, I own a ZDP-189, CF Stretch 2, it is sold for more then the D4-G10s and it had the same issue, I never thought twice about it. After a little while, the lock bar settled down nicely. :thumbup:
 
I've had good luck with both New Graham and Spyderco customer service. I'm glad to see that between the two, the OP will get his desired satisfaction.
 
I'm a little let down by Spyderco on this one. I hope Sal or Taz see this and make it right! The way that lock is sitting, in the OP's pictures, doesn't look like the safest engagement to me, and Spyderco is supposed to be about safety first and foremost ("we don't cut the hand that feeds us" or something to that effect).

For the people giving the OP grief for "expecting too much," you might as well through some of that my way too, because, although I'm a huge Spyderco fan, I wouldn't tolerate a knife with a lockbar like that either! For $40, let alone $100!

Mike from New Graham, you are a true gentleman, and in my opinion, Spyderco owes you one for doing what they should have done in this case, especially given the fact that the OP sent such a clear and concise email, detailing the problem, and even offered to send them pictures as well! Good on you, Mike!:thumbup:

Regards,
3G
 
I feel, if the OP's knife truly is within Spyderco's specs, Spyderco would have been best served by explaining to the OP that the lock on that knife was still perfectly safe, that the problem was purely aesthetic, and by offering a simple solution, like grinding down the lockbar. But instead, the OP got stuck with the bum knife, lost his shipping and handling money, and was made to feel dishonest (told his "new" knife wasn't really "new"). That's how not to handle customer service!

Regards,
3G
 
3Guardsmen said:
I'm a little let down by Spyderco on this one. I hope Sal or Taz see this and make it right! The way that lock is sitting, in the OP's pictures, doesn't look like the safest engagement to me, and Spyderco is supposed to be about safety first and foremost ("we don't cut the hand that feeds us" or something to that effect).
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Well don't suffer from premature disappointment. You have heard one side of a story, it is only fair to hear the other side.

I doubt either Taz or Sal will have time to look at any forums this weekend, due to Blade.

In any event; once it does get looked at, it will take some time to track down the events, which will of course require the OP to cooperate with Spyderco so they can look into it.

Time will tell.
 
Spyderco made a concious decision a few years ago to "widen their tolerances" on what is acceptable for lock back knives. This was discussed in past threads and confirmed by spyderco. Issues that would have lead to a knife replacement in the past were now acceptable. The two main complaints that you can no longer get rectified are:

1. Up and down play in the lock back.
2. The locker bar not being flush in closed and/or open position.

What is sad is that other firms (Buck, Benchmade, AlMar, Queen) did not "widen their tolerances", thus leaving spyderco as a pack member not a pack leader. Your best bet when buying spyderco knives is to purchase it from someone who gives a 100% satisfaction guarentee, thus if you have a problem, you can return the knife to the vendor not spyderco. Way to go NewGraham!!!
 
I always order from New Graham, and ask them to inspect the knife for play and other issues before they send it out to me. They are more than happy to do that for you, and it can really help avoid situations like this, which are bad for the customer and Mike at New Graham. I remember talking to Mike about this when I ordered one knife, and he mentioned what a pain situations like this can be. The lockbar sticking above the handle is not nice to look at, but I would guess that upon inspection of the internals by the QC department (hopefully) the lockbar was engaging in a safe manner, which to me is most important. If you are a collector then cosmetic flaws can definately be a major issue, so I again urge you to ask your online retailer to inspect the knife they are shipping you when you are placing the order, otherwise you will just get the first one off of the shelf, which may just happen to be one that either slipped by QC or is in the high range of the tolerances.

Mike.
 
If it was MY knife, I would have complained a few more times to CS BEFORE posting here.
Many companies will mollify you if you seem likely to tell many others about your bad experience, but once you go on a public forum like this and tell everyone about it, the incentive to keep you from doing so is lost.
I've never dealt with Spyderco CS, but I have dealt with a few other CS issues, and if I got annoyed enough, everything was made right.:thumbup:
 
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