We Appreciate You, and We Need You

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Andy,
I am going to be here with you no matter what. Have you considered letting people pick their stock width and handle configs on orders of existing profiles and materials only, or would that create a nightmare for you and the crew? Would it kill the interest in the Friday thread, in your opinion?

I did some unbiased market research and found that some members of the population were very excited about the possibilities!
https://vimeo.com/153311034
 
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I don't think it would kill the interest in Fiddleback Fridays, but I do think we would frustrate the customer, and vise versa, and both parties would be worse off. Once we take your order, we generally lead you to a cliff near the volcano and throw you in. We are bad at it and it is not profitable for us. We can't take orders because we can't fill them.
 
So I started and abandoned writing something on this subject a few times before. My hesitancy in posting is I really don’t want to offend anyone. Anyway, short background and disclaimer. I absolutely love Fiddleback Forge knives. I’m not a hardcore knife guy by any means. I bought a couple Bark River knives on a dealer site, saw Fiddleback Forge there, bought one, and now I’m severely addicted. I haven’t contributed anything meaningful to this forum, but I have (and will continue to) supported Fiddleback Forge with my wallet. Like everybody here, I want to see these guys succeed! With that in mind, here goes:

I think Andy and team can do a better job aligning production to the want and demand of customers and the market. I make my living doing ‘analytics’, and this is a classic use case. Now I recognize that Andy is making a custom product (not talking about the production knives here) and is an artist/craftsman and not a manufacturer in the classic sense. So it’s not a simple question of optimizing production volumes of different product lines. Also I am not trying to make any case for order taking, I’m talking about getting the mix and quantities roughly aligned with demand. I’ve often speculated that Andy is making the knives he wants to make (or is ‘inspired’ to make) as opposed to trying to figure out exactly what the customers want. Of course that’s his right, but at the same time he wants to have a viable, successful and ideally a growing business. So it’s about finding the best balance.

A couple of examples to try and illustrate my point:

First and foremost, I think there is HUGE demand for custom fiddlebacks in stainless. They are rare. None ever survive a sales thread or more than a few minutes at dealers. So why aren’t let’s say for example one third of the knives on this week’s sale thread in stainless??? I can imagine a couple possible reasons – aesthetically Andy doesn’t like the fiddletextured finish as much as his spalted steel of O1/A2, doesn’t like the performance and/or maintainability of stainless as much for users, or possibly increased difficulty in manufacturing. But still I can’t reconcile any of these possible ‘drawbacks’ against the potential demand for a lot more stainless fiddlebacks.

The second example is not taking advantage of ‘multiple bid’ knives. There was a hiking buddy a few weeks back which 8 people tried to claim. The result is 7 people who didn’t score the knife (including me!). Why not at the very least have 1, 2 or 3 extremely similar knives for offer the next week? Sure there is some risk this will cannibalize sales of other knives on offer, but the overall net impact should me more total knives sold. Similarly there are models (runt, duke, woodsman), handle materials (bog oak, pinecone) and thicknesses (3/32”) where supply is well short of demand.

Anyway that’s my $.02. I know opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one.

I wish health, happiness and prosperity to everyone in the Fiddleaback Forge community.

Cheers,

Darren
 
Perfect! Nicely written. I share the same reluctance to speak out and as a former product planner would agree with your prescriptions.

dedery said:
So I started and abandoned writing something on this subject a few times before. My hesitancy in posting is I really don’t want to offend anyone. Anyway, short background and disclaimer. I absolutely love Fiddleback Forge knives. I’m not a hardcore knife guy by any means. I bought a couple Bark River knives on a dealer site, saw Fiddleback Forge there, bought one, and now I’m severely addicted. I haven’t contributed anything meaningful to this forum, but I have (and will continue to) supported Fiddleback Forge with my wallet. Like everybody here, I want to see these guys succeed! With that in mind, here goes:

I think Andy and team can do a better job aligning production to the want and demand of customers and the market. I make my living doing ‘analytics’, and this is a classic use case. Now I recognize that Andy is making a custom product (not talking about the production knives here) and is an artist/craftsman and not a manufacturer in the classic sense. So it’s not a simple question of optimizing production volumes of different product lines. Also I am not trying to make any case for order taking, I’m talking about getting the mix and quantities roughly aligned with demand. I’ve often speculated that Andy is making the knives he wants to make (or is ‘inspired’ to make) as opposed to trying to figure out exactly what the customers want. Of course that’s his right, but at the same time he wants to have a viable, successful and ideally a growing business. So it’s about finding the best balance.

A couple of examples to try and illustrate my point:

First and foremost, I think there is HUGE demand for custom fiddlebacks in stainless. They are rare. None ever survive a sales thread or more than a few minutes at dealers. So why aren’t let’s say for example one third of the knives on this week’s sale thread in stainless??? I can imagine a couple possible reasons – aesthetically Andy doesn’t like the fiddletextured finish as much as his spalted steel of O1/A2, doesn’t like the performance and/or maintainability of stainless as much for users, or possibly increased difficulty in manufacturing. But still I can’t reconcile any of these possible ‘drawbacks’ against the potential demand for a lot more stainless fiddlebacks.

The second example is not taking advantage of ‘multiple bid’ knives. There was a hiking buddy a few weeks back which 8 people tried to claim. The result is 7 people who didn’t score the knife (including me!). Why not at the very least have 1, 2 or 3 extremely similar knives for offer the next week? Sure there is some risk this will cannibalize sales of other knives on offer, but the overall net impact should me more total knives sold. Similarly there are models (runt, duke, woodsman), handle materials (bog oak, pinecone) and thicknesses (3/32”) where supply is well short of demand.

Anyway that’s my $.02. I know opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one.

I wish health, happiness and prosperity to everyone in the Fiddleaback Forge community.

Cheers,

Darren
Click to expand...
 
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dedery said:
I think Andy and team can do a better job aligning production to the want and demand of customers and the market. I make my living doing ‘analytics’, and this is a classic use case. Now I recognize that Andy is making a custom product (not talking about the production knives here) and is an artist/craftsman and not a manufacturer in the classic sense. So it’s not a simple question of optimizing production volumes of different product lines. Also I am not trying to make any case for order taking, I’m talking about getting the mix and quantities roughly aligned with demand. I’ve often speculated that Andy is making the knives he wants to make (or is ‘inspired’ to make) as opposed to trying to figure out exactly what the customers want. Of course that’s his right, but at the same time he wants to have a viable, successful and ideally a growing business. So it’s about finding the best balance.


A couple of examples to try and illustrate my point:

First and foremost, I think there is HUGE demand for custom fiddlebacks in stainless. They are rare. None ever survive a sales thread or more than a few minutes at dealers. So why aren’t let’s say for example one third of the knives on this week’s sale thread in stainless??? I can imagine a couple possible reasons – aesthetically Andy doesn’t like the fiddletextured finish as much as his spalted steel of O1/A2, doesn’t like the performance and/or maintainability of stainless as much for users, or possibly increased difficulty in manufacturing. But still I can’t reconcile any of these possible ‘drawbacks’ against the potential demand for a lot more stainless fiddlebacks.

The second example is not taking advantage of ‘multiple bid’ knives. There was a hiking buddy a few weeks back which 8 people tried to claim. The result is 7 people who didn’t score the knife (including me!). Why not at the very least have 1, 2 or 3 extremely similar knives for offer the next week? Sure there is some risk this will cannibalize sales of other knives on offer, but the overall net impact should me more total knives sold. Similarly there are models (runt, duke, woodsman), handle materials (bog oak, pinecone) and thicknesses (3/32”) where supply is well short of demand.

Anyway that’s my $.02. I know opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one.

I wish health, happiness and prosperity to everyone in the Fiddleaback Forge community.

Cheers,

Darren
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We do try to focus on what you all think are hot. Its not always easy. We are doing more stainless (this weeks batch will be heavily SS), we are doing a lot more thin stuff, we have Bog Oak back in stock. We are also bringing back designs that y'all love but I don't. Think of the Bow Legged Chopper for example, and the Woodpecker re-design. While I think we can always do better at this (and we don't have any planner on staff) we do try to cater to the demand.
 
Darren, I see you're point and appreciate the manner in which you presented it, i am certainly not criticzing your opinion and as Andy has said they do try to take into account market trends. However I am quite happy with the way Fiddleback Forge are doing things. I was a fan of the days when a friday thread was not at a fixed time, there was no preview and most people didn't know about Fotki (me included) - less of a frenzy, less claiming for others etc...but at the end of the day it is a business that is responsible for supporting a number of employees and I will support Fiddleback Forge in however they choose to achieve this. that said...

Andy and Team, keep on doing what you're doing. You can't please all the people all the time and we have all known the frustration at missing out on knives that we like, or not seeing a particular model surface for a while. There are certainly a lot more knives available now both on a friday and at dealers for people to choose from compared to a couple of years ago. I for 1 think some of the appeal of your handmade line, aside from the beauty and ergonomics, is the chance to pick up a more unusual configuration or less common model - everyone is able to purchase a stainless Bushfinger (production), we have to persevere to obtain a handmade stainless Bushfinger in the configuration we want. Similarly if everyone was able to obtain a 1/8" Woodsman with tapered tang (I don't have one by the way...) it would detract from the wow factor. Customer tastes change, natural micarta is hot right now but wasn't so much 18 months ago, if you tried to gauge what knives people are looking for every week it would drive you mad. Figure in the service that Phillip provides with regards to trying to help customers find the knife they are looking for and I really think we have it pretty good as customers and fans of beautiful knives.

Cheers, Jules.
 
bear71 said:
Darren, I see you're point and appreciate the manner in which you presented it, i am certainly not criticzing your opinion and as Andy has said they do try to take into account market trends. However I am quite happy with the way Fiddleback Forge are doing things. I was a fan of the days when a friday thread was not at a fixed time, there was no preview and most people didn't know about Fotki (me included) - less of a frenzy, less claiming for others etc...but at the end of the day it is a business that is responsible for supporting a number of employees and I will support Fiddleback Forge in however they choose to achieve this. that said...

Andy and Team, keep on doing what you're doing. You can't please all the people all the time and we have all known the frustration at missing out on knives that we like, or not seeing a particular model surface for a while. There are certainly a lot more knives available now both on a friday and at dealers for people to choose from compared to a couple of years ago. I for 1 think some of the appeal of your handmade line, aside from the beauty and ergonomics, is the chance to pick up a more unusual configuration or less common model - everyone is able to purchase a stainless Bushfinger (production), we have to persevere to obtain a handmade stainless Bushfinger in the configuration we want. Similarly if everyone was able to obtain a 1/8" Woodsman with tapered tang (I don't have one by the way...) it would detract from the wow factor. Customer tastes change, natural micarta is hot right now but wasn't so much 18 months ago, if you tried to gauge what knives people are looking for every week it would drive you mad. Figure in the service that Phillip provides with regards to trying to help customers find the knife they are looking for and I really think we have it pretty good as customers and fans of beautiful knives.

Cheers, Jules.
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Ok then...what would you suggest they do to increase sales?
 
Back in January I posted here asking for sweet southern Louisiana women, but Andy has not made them yet :(

Phil would still be useful as manager. But if I called in and asked about something, and they responded with "let me just check on that for you, honey"

Or, if I made a joke, and they laughed... and then asked if I wanted to buy a hiking buddy...

SS this, bog oak that... I just want someone to be sweet.
 
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CAD said:
what would you suggest they do to increase sales?
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For that we are cutting production, which should increase demand by decreasing supply. In addition, we are chasing revenue on the machetes and the production line. And finally, we are going to do some videos that should promote sales and branding.
 
CAD said:
Ok then...what would you suggest they do to increase sales?
Click to expand...

Hi,

I admit my reasoning is selfish and geared to my preferences. My post was not intended to offend or likewise offer solutions to sales problems simply to affirm my support of Fiddleback Forge however Andy chooses to do things! Now, about those sweet Southern Women...
 
Jules, if all is well how do you explain the "We appreciate you and we need you thread" from January, followed by the one from last week about going to Youtube, both of which alluded to flagging sales? Its true that many Fiddleback customers, especially Id suggest those that hang here, like the status quo, but not every body does. New folks discovering the brand are confronted with a very different buying experience than exists for most products. Most of us who cruise here also check out the various Fiddleback dealers - Knives Ship Free, DLT, Knife Connection, etc, (sorry to those I missed). The turnover at these dealers over the last several months has been slow. The inventories even reduced. The Forge has shipped new knives to dealers in at least one example, that they already had in stock, (and had for months). People here constantly ask for stainless and thin. Good to see Andy acknowledges that. Is it helpful for we Fiddleback fans to praise the status quo, just because it works for us, when it seemingly is not working for the Forge? Ever wonder why so many knives turn up on the flea market as "never carried," "never used," "never cut anything," "not sharpened," "not stropped," "new,"? Perhaps the nature of Friday buying is attractive to some who get excited by the competition, but then end up with a knife that under a more thoughtful buying environment they wouldn't necessarily have purchased. This is good for the post office, but... Im not attacking Fiddleback Friday. And please, Im not suggesting the Forge needs to take orders, (at least from individuals). There are many things companies endeavoring to grow their business do, to work towards making things that people want to buy.

bear71 said:
Darren, I see you're point and appreciate the manner in which you presented it, i am certainly not criticzing your opinion and as Andy has said they do try to take into account market trends. However I am quite happy with the way Fiddleback Forge are doing things. I was a fan of the days when a friday thread was not at a fixed time, there was no preview and most people didn't know about Fotki (me included) - less of a frenzy, less claiming for others etc...but at the end of the day it is a business that is responsible for supporting a number of employees and I will support Fiddleback Forge in however they choose to achieve this. that said...

Andy and Team, keep on doing what you're doing. You can't please all the people all the time and we have all known the frustration at missing out on knives that we like, or not seeing a particular model surface for a while. There are certainly a lot more knives available now both on a friday and at dealers for people to choose from compared to a couple of years ago. I for 1 think some of the appeal of your handmade line, aside from the beauty and ergonomics, is the chance to pick up a more unusual configuration or less common model - everyone is able to purchase a stainless Bushfinger (production), we have to persevere to obtain a handmade stainless Bushfinger in the configuration we want. Similarly if everyone was able to obtain a 1/8" Woodsman with tapered tang (I don't have one by the way...) it would detract from the wow factor. Customer tastes change, natural micarta is hot right now but wasn't so much 18 months ago, if you tried to gauge what knives people are looking for every week it would drive you mad. Figure in the service that Phillip provides with regards to trying to help customers find the knife they are looking for and I really think we have it pretty good as customers and fans of beautiful knives.

Cheers, Jules.
Click to expand...
 
Sorry to have piled on. Think we're all rooting for the Forge.
bear71 said:
Hi,

I admit my reasoning is selfish and geared to my preferences. My post was not intended to offend or likewise offer solutions to sales problems simply to affirm my support of Fiddleback Forge however Andy chooses to do things! Now, about those sweet Southern Women...
Click to expand...
 
I agree partially with Jules and partially with Darren. For the most part I like how thing are done now (except for the claiming for others part). But from a business aspect it only makes sense to consider customer preference in things such as stainless steel, stock thickness, handle material, etc. As far as model selection goes I think Andy should build what inspires him... the creativity and uniqueness are a large part of what makes these knives so special.
 
Cutting production to increase demand? Some companies try that as a stock price appreciation strategy, but for a small business other things need to happen. Cutting production's a short term solution to a cash flow problem at best. Things happen under such a scenario that are not good. Matching production qualitatively to demand - making things that people want to buy is better. Using the downturn to get control of cash and gather the info required to do a better job of forecasting is critical. The videos can help. These other tasks - tasks that are critical to growing a business - take time to get in motion. The increase in production models is an interesting strategy. Fans of Fiddleback will buy them, because they are fans. But this puts you in direct competition with mature, established brands with systems and operating costs geared to volume production. Are you ready for that? Your products to now have sold well because they are uniquely beautiful. No one needs a $350. hunting or bushcraft knife. They want them. Proliferating models because you can may be fun, but if the models created (see Comprehensivist), don't speak, sales don't follow. When people are asking (that is demand by the way) for a model already in the line but configured this way or that and you don't deliver, don't we now see what happens?

Fiddleback said:
For that we are cutting production, which should increase demand by decreasing supply. In addition, we are chasing revenue on the machetes and the production line. And finally, we are going to do some videos that should promote sales and branding.
Click to expand...
 
I am with Andy on this one, cutting production will definitely help. The economy is definitely not doing well and disposable incomes are down add to this an abundance of stock at the dealers and more stock available every week .

From what Andy has said it definitely looks like he is listening to the customers and at the same time sticking to what makes these knives so unique.
 
Abe, In Australia maybe. Not here in San Fran Bay Area. Rents have doubled in last 3-5 years. 2000 bucks for a 1 bedroom. I get things are different in other parts of the US (FF main market). Cutting production? Some want to buy a knife, but can't find the one they want. Thats at least some of who's not buying. Take away supply and I suggest buyer frustration grows even more and people shift to other makers where they can get something close to what they want. Back to my comments on Friday's buying. How many guys have bought whatever they could snag on F Friday, just because its something close, but really wish, "if only they would make that one, that way..." Then sell off because it wasn't? But here's the rub, Andy's worked very hard to add and train people. If you reduce supply, what do those people do? For a short time they will hang in and accept shorter pay checks, but for how long? Talent has to live and will wander off. Horrendous price to pay. If this is market-wide and we should be hearing from Derrick/KSF or somebody with a largish multiple brand experience to know, that is different. I believe we all want to support Andy and the guys at the Forge. Attaboys as moral support are good, but if they reinforce ways that work for us, but not the Forge is it good advice?


Scotcha said:
I am with Andy on this one, cutting production will definitely help. The economy is definitely not doing well and disposable incomes are down add to this an abundance of stock at the dealers and more stock available every week .

From what Andy has said it definitely looks like he is listening to the customers and at the same time sticking to what makes these knives so unique.
Click to expand...
 
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