We Appreciate You, and We Need You

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm a data guy. But only up to a point. We live in a physical world and interact with real life physical objects daily. Some of us get pretty passionate about that. Given how the Forge markets, with its website, Friday sales and a small, geographically diverse, cadre of dealers, its hard to interact with a knife before one buys. Ive bought 7 and kept 4. Its amazing how buying the second informed the first. Ditto for numbers 3 and 4. My small collection and the experiences with the 3, I turned back, has informed where Im going AND made me like what I've kept even more!

I am very grateful to Comprehensvist, Thurin, M4Super90, Mistwalker, Jou'fuu and MAW for their reviews, pictures and discussions of the various models. Dont know where I would've started without them. Where I'm ending up though, is some combination of their efforts and my own buying and trying. Having said that, and realizing I am making progress, does this process need to be so hard? Here's some very crude data, I was playing with. The Forge offers (how many?) say 50 models. Each could be in O1 or A2 (or occasionally something else, but forget that for now). Each could also come in 3/32 SFT, 1/8 SFT, 1/8 TT, 5/32 SFT, 5/32 TT, 3/16. There's Scandis and Convex grinds. So its approx. 50 (models) x 2 (blade steels) x 6 (blade thicknesses) x 2 (grind styles) = 1200 possibilities. And we haven't even considered the various handle materials! The Forge makes what ever it decides week to week. We can't order. Dealers take what they're given, (I'm told).

I want to buy, say an Esquire, Tuxedo, 1/8 A2 TT. What're the odds?

Might there be some frustration? Will some give up? Will some buy a couple then move on? Will some who've come and experienced this process, then report their experience to their friends? Is this the way to build a brand?
 
From my perspective, having hung around here for a long time, Andy was horrible with custom orders-- and he admitted it and adjusted his business model. Custom orders are hard. Look at any maker that does customs and they either have a huge backlog or a base of guys trying to figure out what the status of their order is.

I don't know the answer for the Forge going forward, but I do know it is vastly easier to get what you want than it used to be. Other things I've tried are PMing who ever snagged your grail and offering to work something out. Who knows, they may love the palmer and not the tuxedo handle. Trade them a palmer and you've got your score. Better yet, offer them a few bucks over the friday price and let them shark again for something new.

Bottom line, it's been very rewarding to watch Andy and the FBF team evolve over the years and it will be interesting to watch this play out.

I'm not a data guy, but I do know that they react to the customer inputs. Want more scandi's, then start a scandal thread. Want more older patterns, start a gaucho or Scorpion thread. Bottom line, it's collecting as much as buying, so you probably need to do a little work. The upside is that there are over 1200 combos, so it's possible to string something together.

Happy hunting....


TomR2 said:
I'm a data guy. But only up to a point. We live in a physical world and interact with real life physical objects daily. Some of us get pretty passionate about that. Given how the Forge markets, with its website, Friday sales and a small, geographically diverse, cadre of dealers, its hard to interact with a knife before one buys. Ive bought 7 and kept 4. Its amazing how buying the second informed the first. Ditto for numbers 3 and 4. My small collection and the experiences with the 3, I turned back, has informed where Im going AND made me like what I've kept even more!

I am very grateful to Comprehensvist, Thurin, M4Super90, Mistwalker, Jou'fuu and MAW for their reviews, pictures and discussions of the various models. Dont know where I would've started without them. Where I'm ending up though, is some combination of their efforts and my own buying and trying. Having said that, and realizing I am making progress, does this process need to be so hard? Here's some very crude data, I was playing with. The Forge offers (how many?) say 50 models. Each could be in O1 or A2 (or occasionally something else, but forget that for now). Each could also come in 3/32 SFT, 1/8 SFT, 1/8 TT, 5/32 SFT, 5/32 TT, 3/16. There's Scandis and Convex grinds. So its approx. 50 (models) x 2 (blade steels) x 6 (blade thicknesses) x 2 (grind styles) = 1200 possibilities. And we haven't even considered the various handle materials! The Forge makes what ever it decides week to week. We can't order. Dealers take what they're given, (I'm told).

I want to buy, say an Esquire, Tuxedo, 1/8 A2 TT. What're the odds?

Might there be some frustration? Will some give up? Will some buy a couple then move on? Will some who've come and experienced this process, then report their experience to their friends? Is this the way to build a brand?
Click to expand...
 
I would go the other direction. How about a mystery knife subscription service. You pay an annual fee and get a random knife at intervals! That would be fun.
 
TripleT said:
I would go the other direction. How about a mystery knife subscription service. You pay an annual fee and get a random knife at intervals! That would be fun.
Click to expand...

maybe i'll bring back the mystery knife in an upcoming Friday thread
 
TripleT said:
I would go the other direction. How about a mystery knife subscription service. You pay an annual fee and get a random knife at intervals! That would be fun.
Click to expand...

Better to just get instagram famous and sell sub 4" blades with paracord wrapped handles for $500
 
swonut said:
From my perspective, having hung around here for a long time, Andy was horrible with custom orders-- and he admitted it and adjusted his business model. Custom orders are hard. Look at any maker that does customs and they either have a huge backlog or a base of guys trying to figure out what the status of their order is.

I don't know the answer for the Forge going forward, but I do know it is vastly easier to get what you want than it used to be. Other things I've tried are PMing who ever snagged your grail and offering to work something out. Who knows, they may love the palmer and not the tuxedo handle. Trade them a palmer and you've got your score. Better yet, offer them a few bucks over the friday price and let them shark again for something new.

Bottom line, it's been very rewarding to watch Andy and the FBF team evolve over the years and it will be interesting to watch this play out.

I'm not a data guy, but I do know that they react to the customer inputs. Want more scandi's, then start a scandal thread. Want more older patterns, start a gaucho or Scorpion thread. Bottom line, it's collecting as much as buying, so you probably need to do a little work. The upside is that there are over 1200 combos, so it's possible to string something together.

Happy hunting....
Click to expand...

I put out a "wanted" ad in the flea market and after looking for what felt like an eternity I got several PM's within hours and was just a few minutes ago able to buy what I had been looking for from another forum members collection.

The model frustrated me a bit too but in the end in a good way. Every week feels like Christmas. Was a little bummed each time I did not see the exact knife but then the feeling of excitement would start all over. I think its great there are not 100 of the same exact model and config creeping around. Now I finally have my next one I will start putting away for another and relish the time spent carefully thinking over what I want next.

I have an order in with a custom knife maker, its been almost 7 months. Was told it was going to be ready in 6-7. I'm not pissed at him or anything I can only imagine the pain it must be to do custom orders. Plus the delay allowed me to rethink my requirements a few times, lol, to his frustration. So I think the forge model is great and exciting.

I think maybe the lull is from the holidays and things will pick up again. Also maybe some configs going out that are just not as popular as others for folks like me limited to one or maybe two high end knives a year due to budget. I really needed to make sure I spent my money on something exactly or as close to exactly what I wanted. For me, at least presently, I am into dark figured woods, dark micarta combos or contrasting combos but only in specific colors and liner configs. If that changes I know there will be a ton of other options from FBF or the secondary market.
 
Last edited:
Sorry things have been a bit slow for you lately Andy.
I wouldn't get too troubled about it though, stock markets doing crazy things, and this time of year is always a bit tight (for me anyway)
I don't think we are headed back into a recession, (sure hope not, feels like the last one just ended) mabe just a little correction in the market.
I haven't been in the market for any knives recently, but I still check out fiddleback friday weekly and lust after the blades.
I think you are doing a great job with your company.

-Dave
 
I really liked some of the new knives posted on Friday's thread! Not easy coming out with new stuff. 2015 had quite a few, 2016 started fast too. I expect the hard work put into new lines will pay off down the road. I've seen some makers launch new models by first doing a pass around to members to handle, play with and provide feedback before releasing to public. Just a thought to get early feedback and generate a buzz for first launch.

Keep up the good work as always.
 
Dano_25 said:
I really liked some of the new knives posted on Friday's thread! Not easy coming out with new stuff. 2015 had quite a few, 2016 started fast too. I expect the hard work put into new lines will pay off down the road. I've seen some makers launch new models by first doing a pass around to members to handle, play with and provide feedback before releasing to public. Just a thought to get early feedback and generate a buzz for first launch.

Keep up the good work as always.
Click to expand...
we tried that with the Production models
be patient if that is the route you would like
the production Bushfinger pass around was expected to take 3 months.....it lasted 10

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...nger-Pass-Around-Contest?highlight=passaround
 
Last edited:
I think this thread may have gone a little off topic, but in a really good way. Whether you agree with the advice or not, there are a lot of customers that care enough about Fiddleback Forge to offer their encouragement and professional advice (some of which is pretty good and thoughtful). To me, that is a great thing.

So a few posters got upset and stepped away. That sucks, but you have a lot of other customers that are still here and LOVE what you are doing. Focus on those customers and don't worry about the other drama! The Fiddleback team is doing a great job in a lot of ways!
 
Fiddleback Forge? I've never heard of you guys before, but I,ll take a look at what you're doing and pass the word around. Wishing you guys the best in 2016 and hope its a good year for you and yours!
 
Survival Solutions said:
Fiddleback Forge? I've never heard of you guys before, but I,ll take a look at what you're doing and pass the word around. Wishing you guys the best in 2016 and hope its a good year for you and yours!
Click to expand...

Welcome to Fiddleback Forge! Andy Roy makes some wonderful tools with SUPER hand shaped ergonomic handles! He also offers production models for some of his profiles! Great stuff! I spend a good deal of time in the woods and mountains... a Fiddleback is always with me. Check 'em out!

-Will
 
Survival Solutions said:
Fiddleback Forge? I've never heard of you guys before, but I,ll take a look at what you're doing and pass the word around. Wishing you guys the best in 2016 and hope its a good year for you and yours!
Click to expand...

Let's not forget the Fiddleback family members who also produce some of the finest all around knives you will ever find!
 
Survival Solutions said:
Fiddleback Forge? I've never heard of you guys before, but I,ll take a look at what you're doing and pass the word around. Wishing you guys the best in 2016 and hope its a good year for you and yours!
Click to expand...


THanks! Welcome to the forum. Hopefully you find a knife that sings to you! Let us know if we can help.






Guys, I can't help the complexity of the available options. You're talking about people, here at the forum, that think knives all day long. Some of you know more about knives than I do and I've made THOUSANDS of knives. I have folks that prefer cutting with thick knives, and also vise versa with thin bladed knives. I can't make only one thickness. I can't make only a few models. We've got over 60 models. If you like drop points, we have several of those. If you're looking for a chopper, we have choices. I'm trying to design a lineup of knives that covers all of the functions, and all of the different prooven tool shapes. Some folks love cutting with sheepsfoot blades. Some like points. Some like stouter points. I think the line is pretty stacked up with good tools for each and every purpose. If you need help determining what kind of cutter you are, or which of our blades fits your needs and style, ask here at the forum. That happens quite a bit, and the experts here, my customers, are ready to help you. Some companys draw customers that like to beat knives. Some draw folks that like to fight with knives. My customers are the folks that like to cut with their knives. They can help you with the complexity just as they've helped me learn to make what they want.
 
Fiddleback said:
THanks! Welcome to the forum. Hopefully you find a knife that sings to you! Let us know if we can help.






Guys, I can't help the complexity of the available options. You're talking about people, here at the forum, that think knives all day long. Some of you know more about knives than I do and I've made THOUSANDS of knives. I have folks that prefer cutting with thick knives, and also vise versa with thin bladed knives. I can't make only one thickness. I can't make only a few models. We've got over 60 models. If you like drop points, we have several of those. If you're looking for a chopper, we have choices. I'm trying to design a lineup of knives that covers all of the functions, and all of the different prooven tool shapes. Some folks love cutting with sheepsfoot blades. Some like points. Some like stouter points. I think the line is pretty stacked up with good tools for each and every purpose. If you need help determining what kind of cutter you are, or which of our blades fits your needs and style, ask here at the forum. That happens quite a bit, and the experts here, my customers, are ready to help you. Some companys draw customers that like to beat knives. Some draw folks that like to fight with knives. My customers are the folks that like to cut with their knives. They can help you with the complexity just as they've helped me learn to make what they want.
Click to expand...

Trying to be all things to all people, may not be the best approach. In the Nessmuk thread you described this morning, your preference for 1/8" blade stock. And in an earlier writeup on the Nessmuk, you wrote this model was originally a thin bladed knife. The point I tried to make above, with my quick and dirty math, (using an estimated 50 models, not 60), was that when when you're selling everything you can make, it may be because, you're new and offering really unique and gorgeous knives. You can be lulled into thinking the market wants that diversity. One wonders if certain models, from a functional point of view, benefit from certain blade thicknesses and as a practical matter should be essentially only made that way. The "choice" you offer then comes from the knife style/conformation and handle. For example, Ive been looking at Nessmuks on F. Friday and all your dealer websites for several weeks. There are a few, Ive been attracted to, (admittedly do to handles), but all have been in 5/32. Knowing that you'd written the orig and better choice in this model was for 1/8," I've passed. Might this be a component of why things have slowed? Trying to be all things and making the weeks production based on that, means inventory pushed out into the market place that misses buyers preferences, just bit. And so the knife sits. Is there a mostly optimum blade thickness choice, based on the intended use of the design/model? I don't know. Surely you've thoughts.
 
Maybe. I can't say. We make more Nessmuks in thin steel than thick. Some folks like it thicker. I like making sexy functional comfortable knives for them too. Same with handle thickness. I sell knives to guys that like the thickest chunk of handle you can imagine. Those guys appreciate knives made that way a lot. Tapering, again, only half my sales are generally tapered tangs. The rest refuse to buy tapers. When a knife model gets the type of functional clean design classic knife feeling to me I standardize it in the production line. At least, thats the plan. Really, taking the uniqueness and creativity out of what I do is something I'm not much interested in. We work hard, but we really like looking at the results at the end of the week. The whole crew is that way on Friday. Man we feel good about what we did each week. I've gotta hold onto that no matter if I'm only making a few knives a week some day.
 
Fiddleback said:
Maybe. I can't say. We make more Nessmuks in thin steel than thick. Some folks like it thicker. I like making sexy functional comfortable knives for them too. Same with handle thickness. I sell knives to guys that like the thickest chunk of handle you can imagine. Those guys appreciate knives made that way a lot. Tapering, again, only half my sales are generally tapered tangs. The rest refuse to buy tapers. When a knife model gets the type of functional clean design classic knife feeling to me I standardize it in the production line. At least, thats the plan. Really, taking the uniqueness and creativity out of what I do is something I'm not much interested in. We work hard, but we really like looking at the results at the end of the week. The whole crew is that way on Friday. Man we feel good about what we did each week. I've gotta hold onto that no matter if I'm only making a few knives a week some day.
Click to expand...

I confess, I interpreted your very first post in this thread, differently than I now read it. So i apologize if I've caused thread drift or taken you to a place that wasn't the intent. I'm retired, (interpretation - I don't work for anyone, anymore). I make furniture and I make pretty much what I feel like making. I think about a functional need, look for a style, and add some new feature that causes me to try and learn, how to do something new. One exception is a bed I made for my granddaughter, who was invited into the design process and even participated in the final surface prep and finishing. That was fun. I choose not to make, "custom" things, that someone else wants to design and me make. I like to protect my process. I get your desire to make work at the Forge, fun and creative. You self describe as a manufacturer. Finding that happy middle ground is a challenge.
 
That's what this thread is about. Connecting w y'all.
 
Wow, this is why I love BF so much, great thread Andy! I, like a # of the men who have taken the time to post here, have zero idea of what you mean by certain people feeling butthurt, & way less of an idea of how exactly a few of these people could be the cause of a noticeable downturn. I'll let that go, & throw in what I have noticed. BTW, I'm a relatively casual FF fan, popping into your subforum when I remember to/have the chance to. I did notice recently, it may have last week even, that the FF Friday thread was only a couple pages long the next day, instead of the 6 or so that it usually is....so, I checked it out, & sure enough, a bunch of knives went unsold. As a casual guy, I chalked it up to my small sample size, thinking it must have just been an anomaly, but perhaps not, reading this thread.

I'm a custom fixed blade only knife collector, and I own only two FF-related knives, a mid-tech camp knife & an Apache Hunter by Chris. The mid-tech camp is my favorite large knife, & the AH is my favorite knife, period. So, FF doesn't represent much of my collection #s-wise, but they lead the way quality/appeal-wise. There are a few models that I'd love to own, but I've been focusing on buying knives from many of the great custom makers on the Fixed Blade Exchange here on BF instead. I honestly haven't thought about why, though I guess it's mostly financial....I can't afford to buy every knife I love, so I'm left to figure out how to buy knives that speak to me, & do so with maximum efficiency. I bought a couple knives recently from one great maker, a long & pointy bird & trout with TS-Kevlar, liners, & super sharp 52100 w/a nice leather sheath for $165 & a 10"OAL beauty in CPM-3V & blue resin-filled pinecone scales w/a nice leather sheath for $230. I just purchased an awesome 9"OAL drop point hunter in ELMAX, gorgeous dyed stabilized burl, copper HW, tapered tang for $255. And those are just a few examples of a few dozen that I could list. I'm able to get amazing works of functional art, with top notch blade & scale materials & sheaths in many cases, for considerably less than a FF knife of any comparability (granted, some of what I have doesn't really have a FF to accurately compare it to, size/style-wise). Heck, my all time favorite knife in the world, by Chris Linton, my beautiful Apache Hunter in dyed stabilized Black Ash Burl over natural micarta, NM pins, tapered tang, pink liner, & CPM-154CM cost me only $200 (I lucked out & got it from the original buyer, who paid only $230 for it).

What does this mean, I don't know, I'm just a knife lover. I will agree with the listing of stats suggestion. I don't know, but when there are plenty of other knives out there for considerably less, with superior steels & great heat treats, often times sheaths included, and handles that at least rival what FF is famous for....I don't know Andy, it's a damn tough business, obviously, and my hats off to men like you who are brave enough to tackle it. I love FF knives, I know that good American men make them, & I'll amass more of them as time goes by....I think you guys will be just fine, you're stuff is too good to fail, simply put.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top