Wear resistance test for 12 different steels

BluntCut MetalWorks

BluntCut MetalWorks

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
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This simple test aim for wear resistance, NOT looking for: edge-retention, cutting efficiency, so on.. 12 knives/steels cut palm frond & 0.5" sisal rope on an end-grain cutting board. Edges will be prep for optimal workable durability in push & partial slice cutting style.

Setup:
Initial sharpness = slice newsprint. Make 10 cuts -> clean apex at sustainable angle. Make 10 cuts -> clean apex again at sustainable angle. Now we've an edge optimal for cutting frond/rope. This way we eliminate bias/early failure.

Test:
Palm Frond. Non-tearing slice newsprint: test edge after every 15 cuts. Note - most working edge would fail this test, so failing isn't really dull.

0.5" Sisal Rope. Non-tearing newsprint paper: test edge after every 50 cuts.

Cut sand. Non-tearing newsprint paper: test edge after (round 1: every 10 cuts) (round 2: every 1 cut)

Here are 12 knives. 3 from commercial production (BM, Spyderco & Mora). I made the other 9.
19x5.jpg

Palm fronds
5rqk.jpg

A sample cutting test video - http://youtu.be/kkgaYpNtAEg
[video=youtube_share;kkgaYpNtAEg]http://youtu.be/kkgaYpNtAEg[/video]

**Shamelessly** I ignore minor variables at play for this test: edge geometry + blade profile + other variables + forces + vectors + reproducibility + :rolleyes:

PALM FROND & ROPE CUTTING == A FAILED SETUP!!!!!!!!!!!!! date:20131115 :grumpy:

K390;52100;15C28N;1084 knives made 1700 rope cuts and with a little or no sign of failing. So I decided just keep testing only 1084 knife, well now it's at 2500 and still pass newsprint slicing with slight noise. At this rate, 1084 probably make 4000+ cuts.

Then it occurred to me that this entire test (palm frond & rope) is about blade against the cutting board. As I've noticed along the way that every miscut of frond = small chop to the cutting board. When doing rope, there hardly any miscut, so the blade mostly landed not hard + some wood slicing motion. That's why 1084 still going strong at 2500 cuts.


Palm frond Results - #s of cut:
Final:
15N20 - 480
Mora carbon - 570
14C28N - 1425
1084 - 1425
zdp189 - 1965
s35vn - 2280
cpm-154 - 2325
cpm-m4 - 2475
k110/d2 - 2550
s30v - 2850
52100 - 5250
k390 - 6100

0.5" sisal rope Results - #s of cut:
On going (then abandoned)
1084 - 2500
K390 - 1700
14C28N - 1700
52100 - 1700


Cutting sand results - #s of cut:
Box cutter - 10 (which mean after 10 cuts this knife no longer cleanly slice newsprint with grain at 30-45* angle)
Mora carbon - 10 | 4
Opinel #9 carbone - * | 5
15N20 - 10
1084 - 20 | 10
Zdp-189 - 20
S30V - 20
K110/D2 - 20
S35VN - 20 | 17
14C28N - 30
CPM-154 - 30
52100 - 40
CPM-M4 - 50
K390 - 60


to be continue...
 
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Wow! The " other 9" are very interesting. I particularly like the belly ( I call it rocker) on your M4. I bet it is one of the finalists.
 
You may want to find a different knife for S30V so that grinds are the same. A FFG generally slices better than a partial FG. Just make sure the edges are set to roughly the same and sharpened in the same manners.

Impressive collection of steels, though. I haven't had a chance to try out most of those.
 
Very good chance, you're right, this 'rocker' cpm-m4 heat-treated+tempered for 65rc. btw - It's a bit chippy for chopping impact and or encounter a wood knot.
landromus said:
Wow! The " other 9" are very interesting. I particularly like the belly ( I call it rocker) on your M4. I bet it is one of the finalists.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

I agree FFG would improve cutting efficiency. If Chiral and some others would chime in about how thinner-behind-the-edge would beat thicker for various reasons and had CATRA result to proved that. I will defer such debate after the result, since for this test each edge is optimize/adapt for cutting palm frond disregarding the efficiency variable. One can argue that lack of efficiency induce faster wear... well, I've my theory/hand-waving-conjecture about that. Soon, We'll see how blades/steels stack up after palm front slicing test.
dkb45 said:
You may want to find a different knife for S30V so that grinds are the same. A FFG generally slices better than a partial FG. Just make sure the edges are set to roughly the same and sharpened in the same manners.

Impressive collection of steels, though. I haven't had a chance to try out most of those.
Click to expand...

rc specs for other 9 knives:
cpm-m4@65rc, k390@63rc, cpm-154@61-62rc, s35vn@61rc, 52100@62rc
k110/d2@61rc, 1084@59-60rc, 15N20@60rc, 14C28N@61rc
 
Oh man, with the hardness on that M4 the edge retention should be wicked!
 
All 12 knives are newsprint slicing sharp now - 1K finished either on norax 1K belt strip or dmt diasharp E then final deburred with E diafold. 4 knives were reprofiled. The Spyderco CF Stretch zdp-189 had a bunch of micro-chips, I took most out but few shallow remain - *noted*.

Here is my top 4 knives prediction: k390, cpm-m4, 52100, s35vn. What's your prediction?
 
Partial result is updated on post #1. Cutting palm frond is more tiring that I expected. I'll upload some pics in little while...
fg0y.jpg
 
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I have no choice but to watch this thread :)

The S35VN shape is unique, bird & trout knife? And why it will defeat S30V?

How would 8Cr13MoV fare in this test, any guess?
 
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I'm interested in seeing how the k390 and the 52100 do in this test. Does the 52100 have a cryo treatment ? The 52100 I have used with cryo has been exceptional.
 
*updated result post in #1* I did a few more cuts today with zdp-189, its running count is 1050. Maybe I should throw dirt on these fronds to lower the cut count ;)

S35VN designed as a small kitchen utility and part-time outdoor utility. Beating s30v? My delusional ht convinced me that it has a good shot. 8CR13MoV would probably last about 400-500cuts - my fifth sense told me so - hahahaha.
Chris "Anagarika";12811177 said:
I have no choice but to watch this thread :)

The S35VN shape is unique, bird & trout knife? And why it will defeat S30V?

How would 8Cr13MoV fare in this test, any guess?
Click to expand...

I've access to LN2, so will try long cryo soak in near future.
chavez556 said:
I'm interested in seeing how the k390 and the 52100 do in this test. Does the 52100 have a cryo treatment ? The 52100 I have used with cryo has been exceptional.
Click to expand...
 
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Thank you. Thank you. I just love these threads. Watching with great interest. Slice on...
 
* Updated *

On going results

CPM-154: 375
14C28N: 375 - retest, discarded 1st test due to fragile edge
1084: 150 - ditto

edit:
Chris "Anagarika";12813710 said:
Bluntcut,
I'd rather say a dream than delusion ;).
15N20 is more or less same with 8Cr then .. ?
Click to expand...
Chris, I think 8Cr should be similar to 14C28N. Mfg stated wear-resistant # for their steels for their spec at given ht for given test harness (e.g. CATRA). While this test narrows to specific task for given blade (my) ht and profle+edge-geometry, where the dulling factors are: palm fronds and end-grain cutting board. I am not even taken cutting style & fatigue into account. Hopefully some might find the results useful. I certainly get a lot of values/experience out of this test.
 
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Hmm... I wonder if contact with the cutting board isn't making a significant impact on edge wear. For some reason I was thinking you were cutting on a kind of free hanging setup between two clamps.

It may be worthwhile to test the edges with a really toothy finish versus a normal razor edge. It may yield some interesting results. The only issue I could see is an equal amount of bite in all of the edges, because an edge that is more polished will perform differently that one that is toothier.
 
Contact with the cutting board definitely has a large impact on wear. Most kitchen knives gets dull from such contact, especially to super hard and edge-grain cutting board. Stir fry palm frond for dinner - anyone? see pic: end-grain cutting board get cut up a bit. Free hanging setup would double or triple the number of cut and consume more frond because the slice would be thicker and more at an angle than simple cross grain. Also free hanging cut must be very strong and fast since palm frond fibers (especially the outer shell) are tough.

Considered steel grain & carbide size and rc, I picked 1K grit edge as a balance between coarse/toothy and fine/smooth/razor. I did tried 220grit edges (14C28N & cpm-154), they failed newsprint too soon. I expect sub 6um grit edge roll fast too. That said, it would be useful to test 400 & 6K grit edge.
IMG_0820.jpg

dkb45 said:
Hmm... I wonder if contact with the cutting board isn't making a significant impact on edge wear. For some reason I was thinking you were cutting on a kind of free hanging setup between two clamps.

It may be worthwhile to test the edges with a really toothy finish versus a normal razor edge. It may yield some interesting results. The only issue I could see is an equal amount of bite in all of the edges, because an edge that is more polished will perform differently that one that is toothier.
Click to expand...

Indeed... a decent knife (steel+ht+design) sharpened for targeted task(s) would serves you well. 1084 and 14C28N started out with too thin behind the edge, so they deformed on impact.
Chris "Anagarika";12818197 said:
Thanks for the comparison notes. Seems that my current EDC not that bad at all ;)

It seems that the 1084 has a bad start ..
Click to expand...

Time to ponder and chime in, which edge would do better on this cutting test?

1. Edge sharpened with 400grit, where average apex width is 2um, 30*inclusive v-bevel.

2. Unobtainium edge, apex is just a mathematical line(width=0), 30*inclusive bevel. Add a 80*inclusive micro-bevel, where ubevel shoulder is 2um wide.
 
I am loving this thread. It started as a pretty unscientific overview test, but it has become something of a technical wonderland! This stuff is my bread and butter right here.

I have heard that diamonds tend to give a really toothy edge. Do you have diamond stones around to test that?
 
I've most of DMT diasharp 8x3 line (XX to EE) and diamond compound+suspension (15um to 0.1um) and some CBN as well. For this test, I use diafold E to tune the adaptive micro-bevel, so the edge probably has toothiness of equiv to 500-600 SiC/waterstone. I didn't bother tune high-carbon knives with waterstone, if they slice newsprint smoothly, good to go. Plus I keep the same finishing grit baseline for all knives by using dmt E.

dkb45 said:
I am loving this thread. It started as a pretty unscientific overview test, but it has become something of a technical wonderland! This stuff is my bread and butter right here.

I have heard that diamonds tend to give a really toothy edge. Do you have diamond stones around to test that?
Click to expand...

*update* 1084 is still going after 1050 cuts - some micro chips but still slice newsprint at 30* off grain.
 
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