Wear resistance test for 12 different steels

bluntcut said:
I've most of DMT diasharp 8x3 line (XX to EE) and diamond compound+suspension (15um to 0.1um) and some CBN as well. For this test, I use diafold E to tune the adaptive micro-bevel, so the edge probably has toothiness of equiv to 500-600 SiC/waterstone. I didn't bother tune high-carbon knives with waterstone, if they slice newsprint smoothly, good to go. Plus I keep the same finishing grit baseline for all knives by using dmt E.



*update* 1084 is still going after 1050 cuts - some micro chips but still slice newsprint at 30* off grain.
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That's very interesting! How are you executing these cuts, is there a bit of draw or is it more of a pressure cut? I'd expect 1084 to perform well, but not that well, am wondering if it has to do with how the cuts are being made. My carbon steel machetes (1075) can hold up to tremendous abuse as long as they are finely polished and I don't draw cut much with them. Once I start to use friction/draw cutting they dull very quickly.

Martin
 
I stand over the cutting board (which at about 18" height). Push to make entry cut around the edge belly, high pressure push (cut) forth ~1.5". If not complete the cut, draw (slice now) back at much lower pressure, then push-cut forth. May have to repeat 2 times for the fat-end of the palm frond. I am a bit surprise with 1084 too, hence I kept at it so its count is keep going up for it.

My mind began to wonder if palm frond + cutting board impacts are not detrimental to the edge fast enough. Later on, possibly I can do a follow up test with 1/2" sisal rope. Sisal would surely abrasive, even more than hemp/manila rope.

Polish vs toothy is more than just surface & apex width factors. It would be interesting to investigate further...

HeavyHanded said:
That's very interesting! How are you executing these cuts, is there a bit of draw or is it more of a pressure cut? I'd expect 1084 to perform well, but not that well, am wondering if it has to do with how the cuts are being made. My carbon steel machetes (1075) can hold up to tremendous abuse as long as they are finely polished and I don't draw cut much with them. Once I start to use friction/draw cutting they dull very quickly.

Martin
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* updated #s *
 
Since wood has silicates in it (microcrystalline quartz), I wonder if your cutting board should be made of Corian (Methylmethacrylate). While the Acrylic board is harder over all, it is still softer than cutlery steel. The wood board is softer over all, but has inclusions (quartz) that are harder than the blades being tested.
 
Alright instead of #2 - unobtainabolious edge, imagine surface & apex perfect finished 100nm. I expect instant micro-roll and or micro-chips and let's assume good ht so those chip/deform aren't deeper than force exceeded steel toughness & strength.

Chris "Anagarika";12820240 said:
1050 wow :eek:

Since I can't imagine unobtanium, I'd choose #1.
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Good thoughts:thumbup:

Knives I made are tempered for strength, compromised on toughness. So hard impact would most likely result in chips. This test looks at wear resistance, therefore I need to keep destructive impact below toughness & strength thresholds. Corian/glass would be too hard. Acrylic is about right if it has more abrasive power. If I throw dirt on acrylic or wood board, then it wouldn't be fair to low-alloy knives. Manila or sisal rope probably full of dirt & fine-sand, so naturally high-alloy knives will wear slower than simple carbon knives. Similarly cardboard.

I added a sample cutting test video in post#1 - reiterate this test goal & method.

tiguy7 said:
Since wood has silicates in it (microcrystalline quartz), I wonder if your cutting board should be made of Corian (Methylmethacrylate). While the Acrylic board is harder over all, it is still softer than cutlery steel. The wood board is softer over all, but has inclusions (quartz) that are harder than the blades being tested.
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I enjoy any testing so thanks for doing this.

I would be curious to see when one applies higher load (weight) on the knife when cutting if there is any wear advantage with the different steels. Reason for my curiosity is because of this paper:

ftp://ftp.asm-intl.org/pub/MARC_Records/V07/asmhba0001587.pdf

A steel such as S7 and A2 seems to be better wear resistant then even CPM-M4 or D2 under "high stress abrasion". Wonder how that might translate into a cutting edge?

Know this is not really contributing much to your testing, but I am tired and rambling so forgive me. :) :foot:
 
Thanks for the ASM's study. I am tired too so only quickly scanned it, worth study more later.

*warning* - pseudo science ahead!

Whenever Load/Force by abrasion and or normal impact exceed steel elasticity or fracture limit, we can safely expect faster wear rate. Many variables go into abrasion: particle type;size;position;substrate and forces vector(s). I suspect S7/A2 has better wear resistance than M4 from large abrasive particle (wag - 10+um, e.g. water-jet). This type of Load could easily undermine M4 uniform grain & carbide size, i.e. tear small carbide(2-6um) from low elasticity matrix.

For this test, abrasives are mostly super fine (sub 100nm) silicates and low force (cutting instead of chopping), so I expect high wear resistance steels perform better. By how much in real-life? IDK but hopefully this test shed a little insight for this very particular setup. Maybe just maybe we can extrapolate a little :)



marthinus said:
I enjoy any testing so thanks for doing this.

I would be curious to see when one applies higher load (weight) on the knife when cutting if there is any wear advantage with the different steels. Reason for my curiosity is because of this paper:

ftp://ftp.asm-intl.org/pub/MARC_Records/V07/asmhba0001587.pdf

A steel such as S7 and A2 seems to be better wear resistant then even CPM-M4 or D2 under "high stress abrasion". Wonder how that might translate into a cutting edge?

Know this is not really contributing much to your testing, but I am tired and rambling so forgive me. :) :foot:
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Not Kershaw steel. Same steel Kershaw uses, HT and finished by bluntcut ;)
Lol

Sorry, can't help it but I also have tendency to take same assumption. No offense, but unless it 's HT the same, even same steel will have different performance.
 
Chris "Anagarika";12826243 said:
Not Kershaw steel. Same steel Kershaw uses, HT and finished by bluntcut ;)
Lol

Sorry, can't help it but I also have tendency to take same assumption. No offense, but unless it 's HT the same, even same steel will have different performance.
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I know Kershaw does their HT to 58-60, usually on the harder side. I said it is Kershaw steel because that is where most people know the steel from.
 
dkb45 said:
I know Kershaw does their HT to 58-60, usually on the harder side. I said it is Kershaw steel because that is where most people know the steel from.
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HRC does not mean much, the entire heat treat process, skill in sharpening and final geometry greatly affects performance.

14C28N can achieve 58-60HRC in three different heat treating approaches.

I am not surprised to see 14C28N perform similar to a carbon steel since it was introduced as a more corrosion resistant alternative to 13C26 or AEB-L and those where introduced as steels that have similar properties to carbon steels with higher corrosion resistant properties.
 
Agree:thumbup:

I heat treated this 14C28N knife with 1995F+Sub-zero+tempered at 400F, so according to AKS http://www.alphaknifesupply.com/zdata-bladesteelS-14C28N.htm expect 61rc result. Since I don't have hardness tester, therefore I guess.

marthinus said:
HRC does not mean much, the entire heat treat process, skill in sharpening and final geometry greatly affects performance.

14C28N can achieve 58-60HRC in three different heat treating approaches.

I am not surprised to see 14C28N perform similar to a carbon steel since it was introduced as a more corrosion resistant alternative to 13C26 or AEB-L and those where introduced as steels that have similar properties to carbon steels with higher corrosion resistant properties.
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Update#:
s30v -1500. I see more and more small deformations near the apex, so it won't be long before it will fail but not from wear. Does fatigue count as wear? I think it does. Especially when this knife has about 0.3mm micro bevel and not too thin behind the edge. later on I will look at every knife edge at 100x mag to see their failure reason.
 
Thanks. Sisal rope will be brutally abrasive to edges... good lucks low alloy knives :P
chavez556 said:
I can say one thing. You know your edges !!

Can't wait to see the rope results.
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I've to muscle up to keep knife & frond steady to make a cut. My left wrist (frond holding hand) is sored. Wishing you are here to lend some muscle:cool:
Chris "Anagarika";12829949 said:
Bluntcut,

Just watched the video. The word 'tough' isn't enough to describe the frond :eek:
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Today, I got a 400feet of 0.5" sisal rope from HF. I would like 5/8 or even 1" dia but 0.5" is HF largest sisal rope offers.

Mora carbon struggled after 400+ cuts, so its final # is 450. Cutting rope is much easier than frond, I actually sit on a chair the whole time. vs I have to stand to cut frond. Edge failed due to multiple deformations, which matched end result edge from frond cutting.

edit:
final: 15N20 knife - 300 rope cuts

edit2:
final: s30v (bm 940) - 2850 palm frond cuts
 
Last edited:
Wow, the rope is far worse than the fronds. Now I am interested to see how the other steels perform on the rope.
 
dkb45 said:
Wow, the rope is far worse than the fronds. Now I am interested to see how the other steels perform on the rope.
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I deliberately trade cut count in lieu of higher yield. Each rope slice on average is about 1/8" long. When the cut is too close to the rope-end, there is more lateral force against the edge because the rope sag. I want to have multiple runs, so I need to conserve rope. A slice ~1/2" in length would be mostly vertical (hence normal to apex), thus less lateral. At any rate, all knives will subject 1/8" slice, fair it is.

As for frond - I can make a cut less than 1/8 without the sagging -> lateral force affect. I think these frond and 0.5 sisal rope have same wear/tear on edges.
 
I'm intrigued by close match between high carbide S30V and simple steel 52100 running beyond 2000.

It can be either the theory of high carbide = long wear resistance is not applicable here, or the smaller grain high acute angle (cliff stamp's) holds longer is true, or that the test medium and method represents real life use, meaning any good steel should last for a while? :confused:
 
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