LT. first let me start by saying you are more than welcome to buy all the Schrade Knives you like, come right on down and see me and I will set you up. Still a lot of nice knives here. you are correct, a lot of the knives were sold to our well known dealers and many of the knives were set back in their personal collections, I have even set a few back myself. The collection was not "DISEMBOWELLED" right away, the actual Factory Collection sat in BRK's warehouse for nearly 1 full year before we decided to split the collection up. We did spend a lot of time pondering on what to do with the collection and at one time did consider keeping the collection whole, even thought about doing a book. After a lot of market study we decided a book was not feasable, just not enough interest for the development fee. It would have been hard to display the whole collection, and yes, that was a lot of money to just have hanging on the wall. You say we have made no effort to preserve the collection but in my opinion you are wrong. All of you seem to be really down on the certificates we created but that is a very good way of preserving the collection, as long as you have that certificate it is a noted part of the original factory collection. And by the way, the HELLO??? was not directed at you , it was directed to all who just don't seem to understad that we did not rip off Schrade, they were bankrupt and this was going to happen no matter what. Don't take it personal. I do not intend to be a big brother here but I do have every intention of protecting my companies interests and defending it's actions to the best of my ability, I will not be "lurking" as you say. you won't see me here all night, every night but I will check in as often as possible, and trust me, I'm not at all afraid to "jump right in". JP
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To answer another question, Yes James or Buzz is my cousin. He is the Sole Owner of Parker's Knife Service and is no way connected to SMKW. We do a lot of business with him selling their Bulldog product line on our Satelite TV show as well as doing some trading on old knives and other odds and ends. Buzz runs a great business and we are sure glad to have him around. JP
- Joined
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Your offer at this point is a bit belated I am known to have a minor interest in automatics and had every intention of bidding many of those items at Schrade. When I could have competed on a fair and open ground. Now I have the option of paying your profit and the dealers you sold them to, which dosent really bother me money wise it is more just the principle involved. So I will pass however luckily I do own several examples already although I must admit some of the stuff was unique quite a coup. I am fairly aware of what you may have left since I was the one who filled in some of the holes for Schrade on the times I inspected there collection I also sold them pieces that they had neglected at the original time to save. ie the 13 colonies set ( which I believe since we now have someone here who knows what they are doing and were produced and contracted by your uncle you may be aware of.) Just for reference and clarity. You state you did ponder and consider a book and saving the collection but ah lets see you never said you would save the collection and you never gave any intimation that you would do so. Which is what I said you did. As far as your market study with your backround with authors and books such as The Case book The First 100 Years by Giles and compiled and edited by SMKW I would suggest that you were aware of market potential by the time you purchased the collection and this simply was suggested to add credence that your argument that the purchase motivation was that of preservation when it was obviously not. Let me ask you this? if you were a disinterested neutral observer and knowing all this would your rational opinion still be that you made a sincere effort to preserve this collection and history?
I understand that you like Mr Taylor, are in business you have done nothing illegal you have simply manipulated the situation and all I wish to expose is how this episode went down. You were only one part of this but part of it for better or worse legal or not you were. You also have every right to sell communist made chinese knives ( by the way the communists are great at market studys they do them well in advance of major purchases and in regard to policys. ). I in turn ( at least for a while ) am allowed to state my opinions on these companies and there governments ). I am also allowed my opinion on companies who deal with them. In this case you are certainly only one one of a myriad of american firms that do this so as you say don't take it personal. The certificates I feel are simply a selling tool there value considering that there are carloads of items that came out of the factory is mute I mean nice touch so it adds a couple of bucks to the sale. It is not that they have a negative effect more like they do nothing of value for the buyer it is like picking up a pebble and making up a certificate that says this is a pebble from the rocky mountains.
I am glad you are here. I never accused anyone of ripping anyone off or as I continue to emphasize did any thing illegal. ( ethical well that is always a grey area ) I am simply stating what went down. It is a forgotten effort called truth. It in the long run ( or even now means nothing ) in fact I doubt if I would have ever gotten this involved if it wasent for all the denials and false accusations of why Schrade went under. I have no torch to bear and if I did it would certainly be for a higher cause than this subject. Nor do I seek the notarity this has caused. Once the real motives and practices of this endeaver are known it will be a pleasure to leave the topic forever. You have taken a step toward that with your posting in that you now admit that you thought about and inferred you would attempt to preserve this heritage now I suppose the question is how sincere was that attempt. I suppose it dosent matter the readers can judge for themselves.
I agree you should be defending your business interests and associates, the question is rather should those interests be examined to see if they meet what you truly feel is an acceptable level of ethical responsibility. That of course is up to you and I imagine profit margin involved.
Please keep us informed one of Schrades problems was that they had people who were web site represenatives (celebritys) that knew nothing of the topic and as such really did nothing it certainly was not cost effective and did not promote the product. I will say that you know knives and some of the people around you and in your sphere of influence could be the most powerful force around on the subject. The trouble is that often within this group ethics is second to monetary gain. In order to attain that status will take more than a few panels at the store. It will take a change in practices and judgment values that have given this area and those involved the nickname of the Tennesee Mafia.
You are presently involved in several contenscious threads. I have no desire to make seem like you are being unjustly berated. first because it is wrong second because I do not feel your finally being involved should make you a martre. I will only address subjects which I feel pertain to my statments at least until you resolve any other questions. I am truly glad have chosen to voice an opinion. I for one am tired of talking to those who can only sermise it is good to be able to address someone directly. I am glad the prodding has in effect caused you to Jump right in. It really is the only way to get to the truth.
By the way there have been mistakes on your ads just as there have been on mine and anyone else who posts on ebay. The real question is I feel whether they are inadvertant or done on purpose. In your case with the volume you do and the level of some of your offerings I have never felt that it would be to your advantage to do so on purpose I do not wish to belabor this point nor am I saying it to say something nice it is again what I feel.
Lurking is the term I was advised was used on computers for someone who just hung around and never posted if it is wrong or objectionable I am sorry. It is certainly understandable that this question or forum would be something that you would not be able to give 24- 7 attention to.
Just one more thing I also must admit that if a buyer is not satisfied and returns an item your policy of refund has always to my knowledge been honored. I feel that this factor is one of the most important policys any one dealing in this field especially in mail order or ebay should possess. Again thankyou for your time. LT
I understand that you like Mr Taylor, are in business you have done nothing illegal you have simply manipulated the situation and all I wish to expose is how this episode went down. You were only one part of this but part of it for better or worse legal or not you were. You also have every right to sell communist made chinese knives ( by the way the communists are great at market studys they do them well in advance of major purchases and in regard to policys. ). I in turn ( at least for a while ) am allowed to state my opinions on these companies and there governments ). I am also allowed my opinion on companies who deal with them. In this case you are certainly only one one of a myriad of american firms that do this so as you say don't take it personal. The certificates I feel are simply a selling tool there value considering that there are carloads of items that came out of the factory is mute I mean nice touch so it adds a couple of bucks to the sale. It is not that they have a negative effect more like they do nothing of value for the buyer it is like picking up a pebble and making up a certificate that says this is a pebble from the rocky mountains.
I am glad you are here. I never accused anyone of ripping anyone off or as I continue to emphasize did any thing illegal. ( ethical well that is always a grey area ) I am simply stating what went down. It is a forgotten effort called truth. It in the long run ( or even now means nothing ) in fact I doubt if I would have ever gotten this involved if it wasent for all the denials and false accusations of why Schrade went under. I have no torch to bear and if I did it would certainly be for a higher cause than this subject. Nor do I seek the notarity this has caused. Once the real motives and practices of this endeaver are known it will be a pleasure to leave the topic forever. You have taken a step toward that with your posting in that you now admit that you thought about and inferred you would attempt to preserve this heritage now I suppose the question is how sincere was that attempt. I suppose it dosent matter the readers can judge for themselves.
I agree you should be defending your business interests and associates, the question is rather should those interests be examined to see if they meet what you truly feel is an acceptable level of ethical responsibility. That of course is up to you and I imagine profit margin involved.
Please keep us informed one of Schrades problems was that they had people who were web site represenatives (celebritys) that knew nothing of the topic and as such really did nothing it certainly was not cost effective and did not promote the product. I will say that you know knives and some of the people around you and in your sphere of influence could be the most powerful force around on the subject. The trouble is that often within this group ethics is second to monetary gain. In order to attain that status will take more than a few panels at the store. It will take a change in practices and judgment values that have given this area and those involved the nickname of the Tennesee Mafia.
You are presently involved in several contenscious threads. I have no desire to make seem like you are being unjustly berated. first because it is wrong second because I do not feel your finally being involved should make you a martre. I will only address subjects which I feel pertain to my statments at least until you resolve any other questions. I am truly glad have chosen to voice an opinion. I for one am tired of talking to those who can only sermise it is good to be able to address someone directly. I am glad the prodding has in effect caused you to Jump right in. It really is the only way to get to the truth.
By the way there have been mistakes on your ads just as there have been on mine and anyone else who posts on ebay. The real question is I feel whether they are inadvertant or done on purpose. In your case with the volume you do and the level of some of your offerings I have never felt that it would be to your advantage to do so on purpose I do not wish to belabor this point nor am I saying it to say something nice it is again what I feel.
Lurking is the term I was advised was used on computers for someone who just hung around and never posted if it is wrong or objectionable I am sorry. It is certainly understandable that this question or forum would be something that you would not be able to give 24- 7 attention to.
Just one more thing I also must admit that if a buyer is not satisfied and returns an item your policy of refund has always to my knowledge been honored. I feel that this factor is one of the most important policys any one dealing in this field especially in mail order or ebay should possess. Again thankyou for your time. LT
LT, you have given me a lot to address in this one so let me start by saying that the offer still stands, if you are looking for anything just let me know and I will give you a good deal.
Secondly, I can't really say that we ever inferred that we would keep the collection as a whole as you state. Never once can I remember Kevin or Phil telling anyone that we would keep the collection together. These were simply internal conversations between the two companies who bought out Schrade, ourselves and BRK. It was kind of like "well, we own the factory Collection, what should we do? Do we keep it, do we make a book or do we give collectors and are loyal dealers a chance to own part of this great group of knives". And lets face it LT, we sell knives, it's what we do best. As far as the book goes, well comparing a Schrade book to a Case book, well it's just not the same. Case has a much larger name in the collectible industry and there name will sell better than Schrade. I mean really, before Schrade closed their doors a lot of their product was hard to sell, after the close prices really skyrocketed. we just could not stir up enough interest to do this book, nuff said.
It's hard for me to look at this situation as a neutral observer, even from that point of view, I honestly believe that selling the collection was the right thing to do. As I said before it would have been hard to display the whole collection properly and would it have really been appreciated by the tourists who walk through our door on a daily basis? Like I said it's hard for me to look at this from that point of view, I'm just no a neutral person.
Yes, we are a business just like Taylor and at least Taylor is perserving the Schrade name and we are helping and reproducing Many Schrade knives right here in the USA. Yes, Taylor is making knives in communist China but if he wants to competitive he almost has to. I know you don't like them but the Chinese make a good knife for the money and that was without a doubt part of the downfall of Schrade cutlery, competition from the import market. you could buy a Schrade Old Timer for $25.00 or you can buy a Rough Rider of equal quality for $6.99. If you are a consumer on a budget what would you buy? I'm not a fan of the import knives myself, I hate to think that I will be selling China made knives for the rest of my life but as a retailer we must be competitive. I'm sure you understand this. The Certificates are a selling tool but they are not meant to make the knives bring more money, it is simply a way of documenting for our consumers that they do own a genuine article form the Schrade factory collection and I personally think they look very nice. I am a little partial since I designed them. Nuff said on that matter.
I'm glad to hear that you are glad I'm here, you almost made me blush with that one.. HA HA... We did kind of sneak everything out from under everyone else when it came to the buyout but we do carry a lot of clout in the cutlery industry and we will use that to our advantage whenever we can but you can't call this unethical. If it can be done then you must do it in a situation such as that. That's just business. we want to make all the great deals we can and pass those deals on to our customers, plain and simple. Once again we are here to buy and sell knives.
I think you can see now that I am not a LURKER, I am here to answer any and all questions or statements to the bst of my ability. I'm sure we have made several mistakes in our listings on ebay but no one is perfect and no one knows everything. I try to learn something new everyday, if I don't learn something I consider that a waste of a perfectly good day.
LT, you are a gentleman and a Scholar, it is a pleasure and will continue to be a pleasure to talk with you. I think I have addresed everything here but if I have overlooked something just let me know. JP
Secondly, I can't really say that we ever inferred that we would keep the collection as a whole as you state. Never once can I remember Kevin or Phil telling anyone that we would keep the collection together. These were simply internal conversations between the two companies who bought out Schrade, ourselves and BRK. It was kind of like "well, we own the factory Collection, what should we do? Do we keep it, do we make a book or do we give collectors and are loyal dealers a chance to own part of this great group of knives". And lets face it LT, we sell knives, it's what we do best. As far as the book goes, well comparing a Schrade book to a Case book, well it's just not the same. Case has a much larger name in the collectible industry and there name will sell better than Schrade. I mean really, before Schrade closed their doors a lot of their product was hard to sell, after the close prices really skyrocketed. we just could not stir up enough interest to do this book, nuff said.
It's hard for me to look at this situation as a neutral observer, even from that point of view, I honestly believe that selling the collection was the right thing to do. As I said before it would have been hard to display the whole collection properly and would it have really been appreciated by the tourists who walk through our door on a daily basis? Like I said it's hard for me to look at this from that point of view, I'm just no a neutral person.
Yes, we are a business just like Taylor and at least Taylor is perserving the Schrade name and we are helping and reproducing Many Schrade knives right here in the USA. Yes, Taylor is making knives in communist China but if he wants to competitive he almost has to. I know you don't like them but the Chinese make a good knife for the money and that was without a doubt part of the downfall of Schrade cutlery, competition from the import market. you could buy a Schrade Old Timer for $25.00 or you can buy a Rough Rider of equal quality for $6.99. If you are a consumer on a budget what would you buy? I'm not a fan of the import knives myself, I hate to think that I will be selling China made knives for the rest of my life but as a retailer we must be competitive. I'm sure you understand this. The Certificates are a selling tool but they are not meant to make the knives bring more money, it is simply a way of documenting for our consumers that they do own a genuine article form the Schrade factory collection and I personally think they look very nice. I am a little partial since I designed them. Nuff said on that matter.
I'm glad to hear that you are glad I'm here, you almost made me blush with that one.. HA HA... We did kind of sneak everything out from under everyone else when it came to the buyout but we do carry a lot of clout in the cutlery industry and we will use that to our advantage whenever we can but you can't call this unethical. If it can be done then you must do it in a situation such as that. That's just business. we want to make all the great deals we can and pass those deals on to our customers, plain and simple. Once again we are here to buy and sell knives.
I think you can see now that I am not a LURKER, I am here to answer any and all questions or statements to the bst of my ability. I'm sure we have made several mistakes in our listings on ebay but no one is perfect and no one knows everything. I try to learn something new everyday, if I don't learn something I consider that a waste of a perfectly good day.
LT, you are a gentleman and a Scholar, it is a pleasure and will continue to be a pleasure to talk with you. I think I have addresed everything here but if I have overlooked something just let me know. JP
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,634
Nope we had our say my reasons and opinions are out there so is your rebuttal. Aw perhapes just a little more to clear the air. When the offer was tendered as I said before the main reason ( though definitely not the only one ) that made up my mind was that I was given the information by the highest of the executives then at Schrade that it would be kept intact. I believe you know to whom I refer. if not send an email and I will tell you who. Now that statement was made to me and then confirmed by another source later in the day at that time I was with a group of people some of whom are rather well known in the field. It was this fact that made up my mind. That was the same day that the president of Schrade gave me the corner stone of ULSTER knife ( which he had bought years before.) Since he and some of the others involved felt I would be the best one to preserve it. It is presently on display in Ellenville ( in the RESNICK museum) with a small portion of my collection as a token of rememberance to this history and the people from the area who created it. Pictures and articles on this exhibit ect have recently been the subject of several threads. By the time the Shot show rolled around that year. I already started getting phone calls and emails that the collection would be sold. So I knew it was a fore gone conclusion. My infirence to the case book was to imply that you knew at the time of purchase that the Schrade book was not viable because of the very reasons you mention. So if the subject was brought up prior to purchase then it was done so only to enable you to get rights to purchase. It is one of the reasons I have not written one on the subject. Although for some strange reason I am given a lot of lee way in some of my writings and I believe I could get it published. My publisher did not need a study on the subject when I mentioned it he immediately came right out and told me what I have just related to you.
your point of being to involved to be neutral is well taken, instead I suggest that neutrality be asked of those that read these postings if any one cares enough to even feel that what actually happened is important enough to make a decision, then do so. I say this because the demise of Schrade was secondary to the demise and erosion of our countrys economic safety. There were many factors involved it was not just bad managment and business as usual. There was a lot more to it and it is going on all around us in many fields. The collection and Schrade were just one part of it. The players in this were much larger and in some cases foreign. Interesting analogy that Taylor is preserving the Schrade name I prefer, USING it, to give an american flavor to a product from a hostile enemy nation. You are right the rough rider is a decent knife we could make them for the same money if we used inmates as labor. we could not use political dissidents however since we still have the freedom to voice an opinion in this country and do not have any, I just find any price on these items no matter how low, that it can be purchased from any nation that has spilled so much american blood cannot be sold inexpensive enough to compensate for that blood. However that is just my opinion. Most people I feel think I am a gentleman ( I consider that the highest compliment one man can give an other and I appreciate it ) My country, my name, veracity,and honor are really all I care about. Most folks who dislike me ( some say I am a bit outspoken NAAA) won't insult me to my face. As far as being a scholar that is a bit much even for my ego. However thanks. I appreciate your taking the time to explain your views ( you didn't have to, you choose to ). Now that we have this mutual admiration, glad to know ya releationship. How about telling them yellow commy rice burning dirtbags to shove there knives right up there great wall. Just kidding I understand your position I am just glad I am not in it. It is easy to set moral standards when you do not have to deal with those you may not like or agree with due to having to make a living.
I have been known to play a little poker from time to time. I can tell you this if it was not my honest opinion that word had been given to keep everything together you would have had to dig a lot deeper in your poke to win that hand. LT
your point of being to involved to be neutral is well taken, instead I suggest that neutrality be asked of those that read these postings if any one cares enough to even feel that what actually happened is important enough to make a decision, then do so. I say this because the demise of Schrade was secondary to the demise and erosion of our countrys economic safety. There were many factors involved it was not just bad managment and business as usual. There was a lot more to it and it is going on all around us in many fields. The collection and Schrade were just one part of it. The players in this were much larger and in some cases foreign. Interesting analogy that Taylor is preserving the Schrade name I prefer, USING it, to give an american flavor to a product from a hostile enemy nation. You are right the rough rider is a decent knife we could make them for the same money if we used inmates as labor. we could not use political dissidents however since we still have the freedom to voice an opinion in this country and do not have any, I just find any price on these items no matter how low, that it can be purchased from any nation that has spilled so much american blood cannot be sold inexpensive enough to compensate for that blood. However that is just my opinion. Most people I feel think I am a gentleman ( I consider that the highest compliment one man can give an other and I appreciate it ) My country, my name, veracity,and honor are really all I care about. Most folks who dislike me ( some say I am a bit outspoken NAAA) won't insult me to my face. As far as being a scholar that is a bit much even for my ego. However thanks. I appreciate your taking the time to explain your views ( you didn't have to, you choose to ). Now that we have this mutual admiration, glad to know ya releationship. How about telling them yellow commy rice burning dirtbags to shove there knives right up there great wall. Just kidding I understand your position I am just glad I am not in it. It is easy to set moral standards when you do not have to deal with those you may not like or agree with due to having to make a living.
I have been known to play a little poker from time to time. I can tell you this if it was not my honest opinion that word had been given to keep everything together you would have had to dig a lot deeper in your poke to win that hand. LT
textoothpk
BANNED
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- Messages
- 2,386
I guess everyone selling Rough Riders has an excuse. Writing that Taylor is 'preserving the Schrade name' by having some Chinese factory make them is a bunch of crap. People in the past have used this same excuse to 'keep alive' fine old American knife names like MARBLES, HOLLEY, HIBBARD, SPENCER & BARLETT, PLATTS.. I could go on and on. These knives were made to make the brand owner money, that simple. I had an argument with Mike Stewart about this one at the 'other' knife forum. I just was not buying his arguments that he was somehow 'helping' we fans of a certain old brand by bringing back the name. And it all just makes it worse to have those retread name brand knives made in China. Or where ever else the labor (& human life) is cheap, the work laws lax, and the government of that country is dumping the products on the American market for economic and political gain.
Mr Parker, are you under the impression that just steel and delrin and a tang stamp is all it takes to make a knife something special? Someday in the future, the timeline of Imperial Schrade will point directly to Canal St and perhaps other firms started up by former employees of Schrade... Those newer companies will be keeping not necessarily the name, but the spirit -- the heart and soul-- of Schrade alive.
Yes, some 'Schrade' branded knives are being made in the USA, evidently with help from your company, but the marketing of them is bogus. We get people in this forum weekly, wondering why their new Schrade in the 'original plastic tube packaging' has 'Taylor Cutlery' on the the box. What are these knives, really? Camillus? Bear? Some other brand that cannot stand on it's own name? Truly, if the knives were any good, they would not need the crutch of Schrade/Walden. This kinda marketing crap also screws up knife collecting for newbies in the hobby. BR Levine's forum here at bfc is filled with thread started by people gushing about their great garage sale find, only to be told what they have is not what they think.
Mr Parker, are you under the impression that just steel and delrin and a tang stamp is all it takes to make a knife something special? Someday in the future, the timeline of Imperial Schrade will point directly to Canal St and perhaps other firms started up by former employees of Schrade... Those newer companies will be keeping not necessarily the name, but the spirit -- the heart and soul-- of Schrade alive.
Yes, some 'Schrade' branded knives are being made in the USA, evidently with help from your company, but the marketing of them is bogus. We get people in this forum weekly, wondering why their new Schrade in the 'original plastic tube packaging' has 'Taylor Cutlery' on the the box. What are these knives, really? Camillus? Bear? Some other brand that cannot stand on it's own name? Truly, if the knives were any good, they would not need the crutch of Schrade/Walden. This kinda marketing crap also screws up knife collecting for newbies in the hobby. BR Levine's forum here at bfc is filled with thread started by people gushing about their great garage sale find, only to be told what they have is not what they think.
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2005
- Messages
- 1,771
Sir,
As LT has pointed out you have done nothing illegal. You run a legitimate business and have done so for a number of years. In the 1980s and early 1990s I managed a cutlery store where we did sell some Parker knives. We also purchased some stock from Blue Ridge Knives, Taylor products being among them. I never had any problems dealing with any of these companies that could not be resolved to our mutual satisfaction.
As far as I can tell you run the legitimate business, and from mutual acquaintances I understand you are quite knowledgeable about knives. I suppose that is to be expected from one who grows up in such a wonderful industry.
I realize that the wholesale knife business is very competitive, especially with the entry of big-box stores like Wal-Mart who demand, and unfortunately get, knives at a price point they demand. There is a general consensus, at least among the people in this forum, that this contributed in a great part to the downfall of the Schrade Corporation. I have no doubt that it is true.
Having managed a cutlery store in Oregon, I knew many of the major players. Al Mar was a personal friend of mine, and a real gentleman. Those of us who were fortunate enough to call him friend, still miss him. Les De Asis is another gentleman, nice guy and all-around class act. They don't come any better than Les! I know Les was dead set against the offshore importation of knives, but the reality of business has forced even him to do so. However, I believe he is purchasing his offshore knives from Taiwan and not from Communist China. I know some of the folks at Columbia River Knife and Tool, (CRKT), and they bring their products in from Taiwan also. I own knives from Benchmade that were made offshore as well as from CRKT. Both companies bring in a quality product from Taiwan. Of course, Al Mar's knives were made in Japan. I have no problem purchasing knives made in Taiwan or Japan as both are now allies of the United States.
Communist China is another matter. I do not know why American corporations find it in their best interest to move their production to a Communist country which has sworn to overthrow the United States, (if you do not believe that it is Communism's sworn purpose to overthrow the free world may I suggest that you read the Communist Manifesto, or any number of works by Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels or Chairman Mao). By doing so we help them build their industry and their infrastructure to a point that is equal in quality, possibly superior, to our own. They are the one country on the face of the earth that could possibly defeat the United States in a head-to-head battle. By building their industrial base we are only strengthening our sworn enemy.
If you do not believe me, may I suggest that you visit the Vietnam Memorial
in Washington DC, as I have done. On that black granite wall you will find the names of 58,195 of my brothers and sisters in arms who died in Vietnam. The bulk of the arms and ammunition that were used against us came from Communist China. I have seen the captured Chinese made AK-47s.
During the Korean War the United States suffered 33,600 American dead. While there were 520,000 North Korean KIA, there were almost twice that many Chinese casualties, 900,000. I believe history has made clear the intent of Communist China.
Given the current market conditions in the United States, and the uneducated or uncaring attitude of many American consumers, it may that in the short run it is profitable to have products made by the Communist Chinese, by what amounts to slave labor. I believe any company who does so, does not have the best interest of the United States at heart. Not to mention the best interest of the American workers who loose their jobs.
The Chinese government has an abysmal human rights record even towards their own citizens. When I go to the store to buy a product I make every effort to buy a product that is made anywhere but China, preferably in the United States.
As far as Taylor preserving Schrade's name goes, by producing knives in China, I think that is something Schrade could do without. Schrade was an American company, started by an immigrant to this great country in the finest of American tradition. I don't think a cheap imitation of their product is a fitting memorial. Yes, I did by accident by a Chinese made Uncle Henry. At a distance of four or five feet it looks very much like the real thing. Up on close examination it is a poorly finished, poorly fitted, cheap imitation of an Uncle Henry. I don't think the good name of Schrade deeds that kind of "help."
This post is my opinion and mine alone. Others may or may not agree with me. As to your presence in this forum, I welcome you. I believe you're very knowledgeable in knives, and with the resources you have with the purchase of the Schrade stock you can probably answer many questions for us that might otherwise go unanswered. I am not sure if you personally have any interest in Taylor Cutlery or if you yourself are importing knives from China. I just wanted to make my opinion known. As far as I am concerned you are very welcome in this forum.
Dale Vincent
dalervincent@comcast.net
As LT has pointed out you have done nothing illegal. You run a legitimate business and have done so for a number of years. In the 1980s and early 1990s I managed a cutlery store where we did sell some Parker knives. We also purchased some stock from Blue Ridge Knives, Taylor products being among them. I never had any problems dealing with any of these companies that could not be resolved to our mutual satisfaction.
As far as I can tell you run the legitimate business, and from mutual acquaintances I understand you are quite knowledgeable about knives. I suppose that is to be expected from one who grows up in such a wonderful industry.
I realize that the wholesale knife business is very competitive, especially with the entry of big-box stores like Wal-Mart who demand, and unfortunately get, knives at a price point they demand. There is a general consensus, at least among the people in this forum, that this contributed in a great part to the downfall of the Schrade Corporation. I have no doubt that it is true.
Having managed a cutlery store in Oregon, I knew many of the major players. Al Mar was a personal friend of mine, and a real gentleman. Those of us who were fortunate enough to call him friend, still miss him. Les De Asis is another gentleman, nice guy and all-around class act. They don't come any better than Les! I know Les was dead set against the offshore importation of knives, but the reality of business has forced even him to do so. However, I believe he is purchasing his offshore knives from Taiwan and not from Communist China. I know some of the folks at Columbia River Knife and Tool, (CRKT), and they bring their products in from Taiwan also. I own knives from Benchmade that were made offshore as well as from CRKT. Both companies bring in a quality product from Taiwan. Of course, Al Mar's knives were made in Japan. I have no problem purchasing knives made in Taiwan or Japan as both are now allies of the United States.
Communist China is another matter. I do not know why American corporations find it in their best interest to move their production to a Communist country which has sworn to overthrow the United States, (if you do not believe that it is Communism's sworn purpose to overthrow the free world may I suggest that you read the Communist Manifesto, or any number of works by Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels or Chairman Mao). By doing so we help them build their industry and their infrastructure to a point that is equal in quality, possibly superior, to our own. They are the one country on the face of the earth that could possibly defeat the United States in a head-to-head battle. By building their industrial base we are only strengthening our sworn enemy.
If you do not believe me, may I suggest that you visit the Vietnam Memorial
in Washington DC, as I have done. On that black granite wall you will find the names of 58,195 of my brothers and sisters in arms who died in Vietnam. The bulk of the arms and ammunition that were used against us came from Communist China. I have seen the captured Chinese made AK-47s.
During the Korean War the United States suffered 33,600 American dead. While there were 520,000 North Korean KIA, there were almost twice that many Chinese casualties, 900,000. I believe history has made clear the intent of Communist China.
Given the current market conditions in the United States, and the uneducated or uncaring attitude of many American consumers, it may that in the short run it is profitable to have products made by the Communist Chinese, by what amounts to slave labor. I believe any company who does so, does not have the best interest of the United States at heart. Not to mention the best interest of the American workers who loose their jobs.
The Chinese government has an abysmal human rights record even towards their own citizens. When I go to the store to buy a product I make every effort to buy a product that is made anywhere but China, preferably in the United States.
As far as Taylor preserving Schrade's name goes, by producing knives in China, I think that is something Schrade could do without. Schrade was an American company, started by an immigrant to this great country in the finest of American tradition. I don't think a cheap imitation of their product is a fitting memorial. Yes, I did by accident by a Chinese made Uncle Henry. At a distance of four or five feet it looks very much like the real thing. Up on close examination it is a poorly finished, poorly fitted, cheap imitation of an Uncle Henry. I don't think the good name of Schrade deeds that kind of "help."
This post is my opinion and mine alone. Others may or may not agree with me. As to your presence in this forum, I welcome you. I believe you're very knowledgeable in knives, and with the resources you have with the purchase of the Schrade stock you can probably answer many questions for us that might otherwise go unanswered. I am not sure if you personally have any interest in Taylor Cutlery or if you yourself are importing knives from China. I just wanted to make my opinion known. As far as I am concerned you are very welcome in this forum.
Dale Vincent
dalervincent@comcast.net
Well said Dale, I share many of the same sentiments and you expressed them better than I ever could. To this day, I won't buy Michelin tires because the French owners of the Michelin rubber plantation in Vietnam gave sanctuary to the Viet Cong and NVA.
Hospitality is an old Scottish custom and is imbued in a man's honor. If your worst enemy showed up at your door on a stormy night, you are honor-bound to offer food, shelter, and protection. I welcomed MVPKNIFE as I would anyone else. What his uncle did or didn't do, or what Smoky did or didn't do, is irrelevant to me. It's what Jay Parker brings to this forum as a member that's important to me, and as such, I believe he will be a valuable contributor. If events in the future prove otherwise, I will judge him accordingly. Until then, he may sit at my table and enjoy whatever I have to offer.
MacDonald
Hospitality is an old Scottish custom and is imbued in a man's honor. If your worst enemy showed up at your door on a stormy night, you are honor-bound to offer food, shelter, and protection. I welcomed MVPKNIFE as I would anyone else. What his uncle did or didn't do, or what Smoky did or didn't do, is irrelevant to me. It's what Jay Parker brings to this forum as a member that's important to me, and as such, I believe he will be a valuable contributor. If events in the future prove otherwise, I will judge him accordingly. Until then, he may sit at my table and enjoy whatever I have to offer.
MacDonald
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2004
- Messages
- 499
Sorry to chip on here but comparing Rough Rider knifes to Schrades is ridiculus.
I own a bunch of RR's and Schrades and the quality is just not the same....despite the nice bone handles on the RR's, they don't even come close to the UH'S or OT'S....JMHO
Kap
I own a bunch of RR's and Schrades and the quality is just not the same....despite the nice bone handles on the RR's, they don't even come close to the UH'S or OT'S....JMHO
Kap
Bill, there are words by Robert Burns, of all people, that are appropriate to this thread:
"Here's freedom to him that wad read,
Here's freedom to him that wad write,
There's nan ever fear'd the truth should be heard
But they whoin the truth wad indite."
-Robert Burns
"Here's freedom to him that wad read,
Here's freedom to him that wad write,
There's nan ever fear'd the truth should be heard
But they whoin the truth wad indite."
-Robert Burns
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2003
- Messages
- 2,556
Check out this little article on the Sgian Dubh.
http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/dubh.html
Great stuff.
TTYL
larry
http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/dubh.html
Great stuff.
TTYL
larry
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2002
- Messages
- 2,462
A Scot imbibed in far too much of the local favorite. Upon leaving the bar, he stumbled over to a lampost and passed out on the sidewalk up against the post. Two ladies leaving the nearby theatre saw his condition and both commented about what he might or might not be wearing "under there." Upon lifting his kilt, and being suitably amazed, one of them removed a bright blue ribbon from her hair and tied it around his.....plumbing. When he awoke later, he stumbled back into the restroom to relieve himself. Upon noticing the blue ribbon, he declared....."Wal nao, I doan knaw whare ya bin Laddie, but I see ya waon farst prize."
Probably carried a Schrade in his stocking huh? (Forum Content).
Bill
Probably carried a Schrade in his stocking huh? (Forum Content).
Bill