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Welcome to Ingsoc: British Scout Assoc. bans knives...

I don't mymind... The media does a pretty good job on both sides. Considering the 'they are going to take our guns!' scare has driven up prices on ammunition to silly rates... and not a bill has been proposed...


TF
 
Since the Scouts are banning knives everywhere now ,

Whoa there a minute- My son's cub scout troop have knife carry chits, local range instructors for the bb gun and archery belt loops and pins, and NO ISSUE at all with knives, guns, or knifemaking parents.


I think the whole concept of politicizing and knee jerk reacting in the scouts (America and abroad) needs to end.

I remember when they just used to teach the kids who to live in the woods and be good citizens, now they are Anti-Gay, Anti-Athiest, Anti-knife and many other things... what the hell?

Okay, guys-

Don't confuse WOSM and BSA and the british scouts- the BSA is very stringently controlled by religious special interests, but it's not world scouting. World scouting is mostly co-ed, liberal in the old sense (meaning you get to do stuff and think for yourself) and not scared of knives as such.

British Scouting, which is the topic at hand, is essentially following the path of the british society, which seems to have seen fit to ban most eveyr knife imaginiable and is actively working to ban POINTS on KITCHEN KNIVES.
 
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Hey Guys...

The day that happens here is the day I take my Necker to the District office and Resign..
Then go home, call ever Scouter I know and call for a Mass Boycott.

I know for a fact, one phone call from me to my other leaders and the Scouting program here will grind to a Shuttering halt.

I urge ALL of you who are in Scouting to Protect our knife traditions with proper handling and debunking knife misconceptions where ever you come across them...

Knife crime in the UK is largely padded for global disarming of the masses


Quote
""Scouts often have the need for a good knife, and in the early days every Scout was actively encouraged to put a knife on their belt. Sadly, there is now confusion about when a Scout is allowed to carry a knife.""

There is Absolutely NO confusion with my Scouts and Ventures..
When you are at a Scouting event, no matter what it may be, you are to wear you knife. No Questions, No Exceptions. As far as I'm concerned they are out of uniform, and may as well have worn an AC/DC T-shirt. You are NOT Prepared, without your knife.

The man my brother in law pulled from a burning truck would have died, if he hadn't had the knife I gave him for Christmas.

""'I think it is safest to assume that knives of any sort should not be carried by anybody to a Scout meeting or camp, unless there is likely to be a specific need for one. In that case, they should be kept by the Scout leaders and handed out as required.'""

Wrong !

What a Bunch of Tards...

Don't give in people..

We have the power as leaders to either roll over and allow this to happen, or stop it in it's tracks...

I know one thing for certain...

Lord Baden Powell is Rotating at Increasing speed in his grave...

Eric
O/ST
 
Please don't believe everything you read in the papers. It's the DAILY MAIL.
This was all discussed on Britishblades, with contributions from Dave Budd (Who was quoted in the article). It's a typical Daily Mail reporter MAKING the news rather than reporting it. There are links in the thread that lead to Budd's original article that was misquoted by the Daily Panic.
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87650

Dave Budd does not advocate removing blades from the hands of Scouts, in fact he makes knives for them.
 
So while it's not Dave Budd advocating knife restrictions, those restrictions still are in place, or do I misunderstand something?

While it is bad that he is misquoted in such a gross way. This:
I have always firmly believed that the scouts are just the kids that we shouldn’t worry about their conduct when carrying or using knives!
being completely omitted - so the Daily Mail owes him an excuse for making him look responsible for something he only describes.

But it still looks as though British Scouts actively discourage their members from carrying knives.
 
This is dave Budd's email communication with the Daily Mail reporter. This is a boiled down version of his article in Scouting magazine (Here's a link to the PDF, article is on pages 50-52 http://scouts.org.uk/magazine_files/2009/apr_may09/scouting.pdf)
Sorry for the long quote:
Scouts and Knives

Knives have been in the news with increasing regularity over recent years and not for the right reasons. The media like to sensationalise everything, so the actual information is often lost amongst the scaremongery. This leads to the general public being unsure of the facts. Scouts often have the need for a good knife, in fact the national psyche instantly puts a knife on the belt of every Scout in ‘the old days’. Sadly, now of course there is confusion as to when a scout should or is allowed to carry a knife. Here I hope to explain how things are seen in the eyes of the law and to help clear the waters a little.

The law in a nutshell:

· Anybody over the age of 18 can legally buy any knife that hasn’t been banned in the UK.
· Children of any age can legally buy a non-locking sub-3” folding knife (swiss army knife, etc).
· Anybody, irrespective of age, may ONLY carry a non-locking sub-3” folding knife in a public place (except around airports, where you will be stopped as a terrorist) without lawful excuse.
· Under 18’s may not carry a knife of any sort on school premises.

Knives and Scouts

When not engaged as Scouts, by law any child or adult may only carry a non-locking sub-3” folding knife, but the Scout Association has its own house rules that must be followed. There is very little information concerning knives provided by the Association, here is the gist of it:

· Knives should be carried to and from meets by an adult
· Knives should be stowed in the middle of a bag/rucksack when transporting
· Knives are tools and should be treated as such: use the appropriate tool for the job (don’t use a large fixed blade for carving or a penknife for clearing brush)
· Knives should be stored away until there is a need for them to be used.
· Campsites are considered public places (when used for a camp) and so knives are not to be carried.
· Horse play will not be tolerated.
· Except for reasons of religion, knives may not be worn with uniform


There is no differentiation and some confusion between the street-legal folding knife and a fixed blade; this is often where people get confused about the rules. It is probably safest to assume that knives of any sort should not be carried by anybody to a Scout meeting or camp, unless there is likely to be a specific need for one; in which case they are kept by the Scout leaders and handed out as required. If the law and common sense are applied, then I personally would say that a scout carrying a street-legal folding knife at a meeting or camp is fine, but fixed (or locking) blades should be dished out to the scouts when they are about to use them. It is sad to say that where once the Scout was required to wear a sheath knife as part of the uniform, now many adults wouldn’t let them use a knife at all. I have always firmly believed that the scouts are just the kids that we shouldn’t worry about their conduct when carrying or using knives! I would also suggest that proper training in the use and care of knives (and other tools) be taken, not only by the Scout but also by the leaders who are in charge.

These are only guidelines, as the law states that carrying a non-locking sub 3 inch knife is legal for everyone to carry in a public place.
The scouts are recommending that adults keep a hold of the bigger knives until they get to the scout meet before the kids are given them for supervised use. They are not saying that they cannot be carried.
 
The scouts are recommending that adults keep a hold of the bigger knives until they get to the scout meet before the kids are given them for supervised use. They are not saying that they cannot be carried.
I don't read that from your quote. Budd deems that common sense, but he also explicitely says the Scout rules lack differentiation.

So I would like to know what exactly is the British Scouts policy on knifes.

Ah, found it:
https://members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/1515
I don't see why they thought it necessary to mention a knife can be an offensive weapon, but taking that + the British legislation into account, I think in fact, Chinpo is right.
 
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I've tried to find a set of rules for this apparent ban, all i can find are references in other articles saying that the scouts are "advising" or "recommending". It seems that the headlines say "banned", but further down they say different.

from Times Online:
The Scout Association, which begins a new season with a recently crowned Chief Scout, Bear Grylls, has now supplemented that with its own advice. It includes recommendations that knives should be carried to and from meetings by an adult, and must not be carried around campsites, which are considered public places.

Deadline Scotland:
But now the Scout Association has outlawed penknives in new advice it says will help reduce intimidation and bullying among its members.

This quote says outlawed and then advice. I always understood that advice was a recommendation or a guideline, not a law.
 
I think the whole concept of politicizing and knee jerk reacting in the scouts (America and abroad) needs to end.

I remember when they just used to teach the kids who to live in the woods and be good citizens, now they are Anti-Gay, Anti-Athiest, Anti-knife and many other things... what the hell?

TF


I think you're confusing a couple of different things.
 
funny how previous generations of cubs and scouts never had issues with "bullying, intimidation,or violence" as a result of carrying fixed blade knives and folders on the belt, as well as axes. Funny how we all carried .22's openly, bolt open, with no freak outs by other cubs or scouts or parents or public. Even as recently as the 80's.

oh wait,we didn't have media and government fearmongering, nor a nanny state nor a global elite hell bent on disarming the public back then. Seems like as soon as the 90's hit there was a sudden backlash against common sense.

this fearmongering and complete lack of common sense by the media and general public that swallow whatever disinformation is shoved down their throats makes me sick. It makes me sick that people cannot THINK for themselves anymore, or USE BASIC COMMON SENSE. The sight of a sheath knife on a persons belt, the use of a penknife to cut an apple or newspaper clipping invokes fear in people now, and sometimes a police response, and in most cases that persons life is ruined as a result (labeled as terrorists). All over a basic tool. It is PURE AND UTTER BS (edited). I'm fed up with it. I could go on but wont family forum and all.
 
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So I guess they will remove the use of a pocket knife from the Boy Scouts manual?? I have an old manual that has a bunch of knife related info.
 
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