What 2 Makers Would You Like To See Do A Collaboration ?

ScarFoot said:
True collaboration is not group think. I agree that group think often results in less than desired outcomes but group think is just a bunch of people with the same idea.
Click to expand...

I've never experienced "true collaboration" in my life. It may exist but in my experience any attempt at "collaboration" becomes a tedious exercise in politics.

ScarFoot said:
Collaboration is about people with different expertise and styles pushing the limits of creativity or forcing each other to think/work outside of their comfort zone. Truly creative people generally thrive in those situations.
Click to expand...

I find that "truly creative" people generally clash when forced to think/work in different ways and do not like to have to "explain" to others why they think/work in the way they do.

ScarFoot said:
Team work/collaboration is a necessity in most modern industries because they are too technically and technologically diverse for any one person to be an expert in everything.
Click to expand...

I'd agree "team work" can be required and beneficial when the tasks at hand require different skill sets.

The simplest example of this would be in music, where one member of the team writes the music and the other writes the lyrics. There are all kinds of musical teams like this that have been very successful but knife making is not such a task.

However, a knife maker can design/produce a knife in it's entirety alone & when there is more than 1 person involved in the design of a knife you get something like the "Spyker" which was a "collaboration" between Ken Onion & Sal Glesser:

iu


I own many knives designed individually by Ken Onion and many Sal Glesser, including the "Spyker."

The Spyker is the only knife that they "designed' together. It is my least favorite knife designed by either because it incorporates design elements that they are both noted for in a way that shows that they are incompatible.

So, while the Spyker is an "interesting" knife, IMO, it's a complete failure from a design perspective. This is why I don't think it's necessary or advisable for there to be any "collaboration" between knife makers. Just let each person make and stand behind knives of their own design.
 
Gayle Bradley and Greg Medford.

I've actually thought a quirky-cool knife would be an Endura with a Medford-style .187 thick blade in sabre-hollow with the stock Endura profile - still in back lock with .125 titanium liner-less scales. I would like one, just because. So Sal & Greg.
 
sgt1372 said:
I've never experienced "true collaboration" in my life. It may exist but in my experience any attempt at "collaboration" becomes a tedious exercise in politics.



I find that "truly creative" people generally clash when forced to think/work in different ways and do not like to have to "explain" to others why they think/work in the way they do.


This is why I don't think it's necessary or advisable for there to be any "collaboration" between knife makers. Just let each person make and stand behind knives of their own design.
Click to expand...

I don’t think anyone is stating that it’s either necessary or advisable, but since you skipped over my examples I’ll just assume you don’t have any appreciation for them. Fine by me.

However, I’m not convinced even you believe what you’re saying. Sure, you’ve provided an example with that Spyderco/Onion design, and as it seems it’s just a matter of it not jiving with YOU, I’ll provide you with one I think you’re overlooking. Many of the designs sold by Carothers Performance Knives were/are collaborations, which is why those designs are marked with both the CPK logo and the corresponding collaborators marks, namely Lorien Arnold and Dan Keffeler. Are you saying that these designs, which simply would not have happened without the collaborations, hold no merit for you, also?
 
sgt1372 said:
I've never experienced "true collaboration" in my life. It may exist but in my experience any attempt at "collaboration" becomes a tedious exercise in politics.



I find that "truly creative" people generally clash when forced to think/work in different ways and do not like to have to "explain" to others why they think/work in the way they do.



I'd agree "team work" can be required and beneficial when the tasks at hand require different skill sets.

The simplest example of this would be in music, where one member of the team writes the music and the other writes the lyrics. There are all kinds of musical teams like this that have been very successful but knife making is not such a task.

However, a knife maker can design/produce a knife in it's entirety alone & when there is more than 1 person involved in the design of a knife you get something like the "Spyker" which was a "collaboration" between Ken Onion & Sal Glesser:

iu


I own many knives designed individually by Ken Onion and many Sal Glesser, including the "Spyker."

The Spyker is the only knife that they "designed' together. It is my least favorite knife designed by either because it incorporates design elements that they are both noted for in a way that shows that they are incompatible.

So, while the Spyker is an "interesting" knife, IMO, it's a complete failure from a design perspective. This is why I don't think it's necessary or advisable for there to be any "collaboration" between knife makers. Just let each person make and stand behind knives of their own design.
Click to expand...
No offense but it just seems to me, assuming you’re a creative person that YOU just don’t like collaborating with others. Applying that to all other creative people is just wrong

Collaborations happen across all art forms, crafts, manufacturing etc.

Sure, sometimes 2 people may not be able to work together but there’s also times that 2 creatives get together and thrive and feed on each other, creating something wonderful that neither could have ever accomplished on their own.
 
sgt1372 sgt1372 it doesn't have to be that way. The Spyker admittedly looks like something contrived, a deliberate statement to the fact that "We're both well known knife designers with specific traits, and here's a knife to prove it". It almost looks more like an exercise in marketing than its own knife. But that, and branding and aesthetics aside, it looks nevertheless like a capable and versatile tool, which is to be expected from both of them.

No man is an island. While my shop and craftsmanship are not at the level of producing what I would consider high dollar showpieces, I believe I am a very capable designer, when it comes to a knife that is meant to be used. There are a few members around the forums who own some of the designs I have made, and I have received a lot of positive feedback. That being said, it has happened more than once where a satisfied owner of a knife I designed and made will say "Hey David, I'm ready for another one, but this time, can we extend the handle by just a quarter inch," or who has asked for something new and said "I love the design, but can you remove the thumb ramp", or "add jimping here", or "do it with no jimping," etc. And I sometimes end up liking the suggested changes enough that they become the new normal, or at least a "not better, but different and excellent" option.

I showed Josh REK Knives REK Knives a Micarta handled knife that was in WIP last week, and he said "you should make a lateral groove on the handle for grip", and I did, and it was glorious. I may have never thought to do it, or perhaps it would have been years before I got around to trying it again (I did once years ago as a hobbyist and the result was really ugly so I didn't try again until Josh's suggestion). It wasn't a hyped, public collaboration, but it was a collaboration nonetheless, to my way of thinking, and my own craftsmanship in producing quality user blades is now that much better for it. I've already made another, and I love it.

So get two makers together, let them look at some of each others work, in person, and have an open and frank discussion of their own knife likes and dislikes, and how they might do things differently, and you never know what might happen. One or both makers may come away enriched. As long as they are both open to that outcome, and not forcing it, nor requiring that "both our ideas must be used here!", then the result could be a new design, or variant of an existing one that presents a host of new features or benefits that one or both makers otherwise may have been either slow to arrive it, or not at all without each other's input.
 
As the late, great Kit Carson remarked to me years ago, "All of us stand on the shoulders of those who came before us. Nothing we do is original."

He meant that as a reply to my query as to why he took no umbrage from another maker's obvious copy of something he had built.

But in truth, it also points out, in a more universal fashion, that most everything that makers, great and small, create is a collaboration on one level or another.

Speaking of which, I'd like to see a collaboration between Matthew Gregory Matthew Gregory and Nathan the Machinist Nathan the Machinist ...though I don't relish the thought of what I might have to pony up for it. ;) 🍻

(Of course, I hope that working together wouldn't ruin their friendship. LOL)
 
I'm skeptical of some of the suggestions and my knee-jerk reaction to the topic wasn't very enthusiastic, but any one of Matt's 8 awesome examples is enough to demonstrate how great it can be.
 
Richard338 said:
I'm skeptical of some of the suggestions and my knee-jerk reaction to the topic wasn't very enthusiastic, but any one of Matt's 8 awesome examples is enough to demonstrate how great it can be.
Click to expand...
Thank you, my friend. I’ll have the check sent out tomorrow.


:p
 
Matthew Gregory said:
Nathan hates all my knifes.


Also, as his attorney, I need to maintain a certain amount of distance between my client and I.


…or am I the Spiritual advisor, now?

Spirit Animal?

…shit, I can’t remember…
Click to expand...
You just have to maintain plausible deniability...
 
Looks like I've sparked an interesting debate on this topic and, as is usually, the case, I'm in the minority in terms of my POV.

I won't deny that there have been some successful collaborations in knife making but I prefer to buy knives made exclusively by one maker and, I'll just leave it at that. EOM.
 
sgt1372 said:
Looks like I've sparked an interesting debate on this topic and, as is usually, the case, I'm in the minority in terms of my POV.

I won't deny that there have been some successful collaborations in knife making but I prefer to buy knives made exclusively by one maker and, I'll just leave it at that. EOM.
Click to expand...
If we all agreed on everything: it would be a very boring World.
 
sgt1372 said:
Looks like I've sparked an interesting debate on this topic and, as is usually, the case, I'm in the minority in terms of my POV.

I won't deny that there have been some successful collaborations in knife making but I prefer to buy knives made exclusively by one maker and, I'll just leave it at that. EOM.
Click to expand...
I think based on the examples you gave in your first post you were referring to forced collaboration/team work which is what you normally come across in school and work settings. I’ve certainly seen that fail many times and I’m sure most people can relate.
You lock two knife makers in a room and tell them they ain’t coming out until they come up with the next great design they’re probably going to have a hard time, smell horrible and possibly come up with a design as bad as the spyker…
You get two or more knifemakers, musicians, artists, etc..in a room and let them come up with ideas organically and that’s a whole different story. That’s when you’re truly collaborating.
 
ScarFoot said:
I think based on the examples you gave in your first post you were referring to forced collaboration/team work which is what you normally come across in school and work settings. I’ve certainly seen that fail many times and I’m sure most people can relate.
You lock two knife makers in a room and tell them they ain’t coming out until they come up with the next great design they’re probably going to have a hard time, smell horrible and possibly come up with a design as bad as the spyker…
You get two or more knifemakers, musicians, artists, etc..in a room and let them come up with ideas organically and that’s a whole different story. That’s when you’re truly collaborating.
Click to expand...


Summarized perfectly. Perhaps that’s what I thought I was saying, but what the hell do I know…
 
John Phillips said:
Oohhhhhhhh, Reeve and Oz!!!! Although with Bill Koenig being friends with Tim and being located nearny, I wonder how long until Reeve and Koenig make something happen.
Click to expand...
I’m sure a collab between those two Idaho makers would be something similar to the CRK x Shirogorov collabs which I don’t like in all honesty.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top