What America Is Today, Rant On:

I haven't been keeping up with the news as of late. I've been on a light diet of media because i was just getting upset everytime i flipped on the TV and there was nothing but doom and gloom and smear and mudslinging. However, I can't see what this illegal immigration legislation is going to really do, nor can I understand what people are so upset over. It looks to me like a government dog chasing its tail. The laws that are there have never been followed or enforced, and it boggles my mind that people are sticking up for those that purposly break American law.
Immigration is cool! Hell, we all came from somewhere. As a mutt of a man with with many different kinds of blood i can't say that all immigration is bad. However, i think that we need some control of who goes in and who goes out of the boarders. Just putting aside all the mexican workers that come over here, regardless of there intention to stay, go, or pay taxes. We need a better way to keep tabs on everyone that passes through. With the gang violence that is erupting just south of the TX boarder to felons fleeing from this country to terrorists sneaking things through the wide unwatched spaces we need to do something to keep tabs on both the mexican and canadian boarders.
I have no problem with people coming to this country for work. I just think that they need to pay their taxes like the rest of us. Also, and i know it is a long shot, i think they should have to take a writen entry level exam on english and American law. I'm not talking about a doc. study here, just basic communication skills of AMerican greetings, how to count money, what is "wrong" to do etc. That would help them get along a little better in the states, aid officials in offering help to them if and when they need it, and protect them from getting the shaft by people that would take advantage of their culture shock.
As for France, I think they are kind of paying the piper right now. You can't have a quasi-socialist system of economics and keep everyone happy. Everyone wants a piece of the pie. At least in communist Russia you were given your sliver of pie, you ate it, and you went home hungry. In France's system of work regulation and employment, everyone is entitled to a fat piece of pie...the problem is that there is only so much pie to go around. 25% of the people get to sit around and lick their chops. I have no idea why France is putting this new law into effect, but i could guess and say it to be "fair". Think about it. The young get to step up, grab a slice for a little bit, then get swatted down to start over. They are young and have more time and energy to rebuild. Let them start and lose their careers until they they reach the cutoff age where they can't be fired without reason. I guess it's like playing hot potato where Father Time puts you in your career:)
These are all guesses on my part. I have no idea what is REALLY going on. The media only tells you so much, and no one is really put out the honest to God truth anymore. It makes me sick, really.
I'm this > < close to just sticking my fingers in my ears, clinching my eyes, and clicking my heels together.

Jake
 
Kevin the Grey;

If the number of illegals crossing into the US picked Canada instead, (as I hear at least one Canadian politician wants) your economy would be bankrupt.

>>>>>>>

This is not a racist issue, and like Andy said, let's not go there, folks. But a nation exists not only economically, but socially. Most of Canada would not be Canada if the population of South Africa settled there over a span of 20 years or so.

What to do about it? Good thread.


munk
 
munk said:
Kevin the Grey;

If the number of illegals crossing into the US picked Canada instead, (as I hear at least one Canadian politician wants) your economy would be bankrupt.

>>>>>>>

This is not a racist issue, and like Andy said, let's not go there, folks. But a nation exists not only economically, but socially. Most of Canada would not be Canada if the population of South Africa settled there over a span of 20 years or so.

What to do about it? Good thread.



munk
Click to expand...

It is my understanding that the restrictions on LEGAL immigration to Canada or most other countries is far more restrictive than the US.

As far as France, I may be wrong but part of the rioting of Middle Eastern folks there a while back was that they are almost like "guest workers" right?? What I mean is they contribute to the social safety net but do not receive the same benefits.

I see 3 downsides to letting so many illegals in. First as I have mentioned before most of Mexico and many other Latin American countries are very corrupt. I can see very few other reason than that and the birth rate to account for the reasons that they are not as prosperous as the US. So my question is I feel our government is more corrupt, but if we allow so many people in over such a short period of time do they influence our national character so much that we become more like Latin America?

Second is many of the people coming in are doing very unskilled work. Assuming that people who can do skilled work are staying there will this result in a dumbing down of the population? Maybe some are doing the work because it is the only they can find, but what if it's the only kind they can DO? If these people eventually become citizens and vote, will it result in an electorate that votes on emotion rather than intellect?

Third is that being low wage workers they must depend more on public services. I really almost feel like there should be a law if a business pays their employess sub standard wages the gov't should levy a tax on them to pay for the increased public debt incurred by these families getting free medical care, food stamps etc.
 
Kevin the grey said:
They are willing to pay taxes , do jury duty and whatever else it takes to be a citizen .
Click to expand...

Unregulated surely, but still illegal. However, the above statement I must take issue with. They are not willing to pay taxes, thats the point. They are not assimilating, and few are trying for citizenship. Last year I worked in a restaurant kitchen for extra $. I tried to learn as much spanish as I could, and befriended the guys there. All illegal. All making incredible salaries at un-taxed hourly jobs, and doing restaurant work for low wages to have something to show at tax time. All planning on returning home once they had enough saved. Several guys told me their border story. Interesting stories to be sure. The guy I was closest to worked setting up party tents during the day. He brought home 50K at that job with the significant overtime. He worked nights at the restaurant so Uncle Sam would have some tax docs. They drove an expedition. Couldn't wait to get back to Mexico and live richly retired. What the hell? An American wouldn't take that job?
 
Munk , that is a perspective I had not considered . Is the sheer volume of desireables so great as to overload you ? Then if it is regulated you can pick only the most desireable of those . I can,t agree more that a leaky border can only have a detrimental effect .
We too have an immigration issue which is based more on quality than quantity . When the first criteria is the language that you speak and not the intentions that you have it does not lay a good foundation for the future .
In the short run yours is the more pressing issue . In the long run it does not bode well for either country .

P"S" I would like to add that the term :Bashing: was used by a member . While I have never been privy to such goings on opinions may vary . I am not so immature as to allow simple words to disuade me from what I know to be true . I do consider the term to be offensive . If there is bashing going on I do not think it would be tolerated here if for no other reason than that we are too refined to lower ourselves to such a level .
 
Kevin, I think in 'the long run' this will all be moot.

People are going to cross borders. The pot will melt.



munk
 
aproy1101 said:
Unregulated surely, but still illegal. However, the above statement I must take issue with. They are not willing to pay taxes, thats the point. They are not assimilating, and few are trying for citizenship. Last year I worked in a restaurant kitchen for extra $. I tried to learn as much spanish as I could, and befriended the guys there. All illegal. All making incredible salaries at un-taxed hourly jobs, and doing restaurant work for low wages to have something to show at tax time. All planning on returning home once they had enough saved. Several guys told me their border story. Interesting stories to be sure. The guy I was closest to worked setting up party tents during the day. He brought home 50K at that job with the significant overtime. He worked nights at the restaurant so Uncle Sam would have some tax docs. They drove an expedition. Couldn't wait to get back to Mexico and live richly retired. What the hell? An American wouldn't take that job?
Click to expand...

Good story. Same thing applies to Disability. I know lots of folks getting Social Security Disability and SSI allegedly totally disabled, that are working for cash.
 
My point is that the illegals must be stopped and only then can the ones you can handle be allowed in . Heck letting in the poor and the hungry is one thing . Letting in the lazy and ignorant is another . As for some slipping through ? I respect it might never be plugged completely . I don,t think a free for all is desireable either . I,m getting hot under the collar here so I,m gonna get some fresh air . You guys have a great day .
 
aproy1101 said:
In the next election I am voting for whichever candidates I believe will deal with two important issues: illegal immigration, and property rights.
Click to expand...

Hillary may very well reel a number of us in with this issue:

"More than any other leader of either political party, U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton has been focusing on immigration reform and border security — taking hard-line positions that appeal to frustrated Republicans in a move that could guarantee her enough support in red states to win the White House in 2008," conservative author Carl Limbacher wrote recently on NewsMax.com
 
cliff355 said:
Hillary may very well reel a number of us in with this issue:

"More than any other leader of either political party, U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton has been focusing on immigration reform and border security — taking hard-line positions that appeal to frustrated Republicans in a move that could guarantee her enough support in red states to win the White House in 2008," conservative author Carl Limbacher wrote recently on NewsMax.com
Click to expand...

If I hear a plan out of Hillary that would solve my two issues better than the opposition plan, I'd consider giving her my vote. That's how up in the air my vote is right now. I'd rather vote for John McCain, or Colon Powell, or even Condy. I won't vote for anyone who will pull us out of Iraq too soon, and I feel won't stand up to Iran though.

I really want to hear more about this fence. I know a fence is not full proof, but its a powerful symbol. If a fence is so offensive to the state of Mexico, why are their southern borders fenced?
 
cliff355 said:
Mine is in the air too, unless this gent decides to participate:

http://www.voters4ventura.com/

Best Governor we ever had.
Click to expand...

He was a buffoon in some ways and I think treated somewhat unfairly by the press, but based on what I heard a LOT of MN folks say, especially farming folks he was a damn good gov!:thumbup:

I wish we would see more Reform party candidates. I honestly feel without Perot pushing the deficit there never would have been the political will on the part of the congress and Clinton to balance the budget.:thumbup:
 
Thanks HD. I'll check those out.
 
"Osama, Osama, Osama"
Click to expand...

If this is true...oh...

I respect anyone who just wants to better themself, and is willing to work hard for that. I have a problem with anyone who arrives illegally, and then receives state assistance to be here.

My SIL is German, and followed all the regs and did the paperwork. She's struggling to stay in the States because INS scheduled an interview with her and neglected to let her know!

J
 
Let's not forget that very few of *us* should be here...after all, the ndn nations were never allowed to require green cards, stipulate language requirements, be provided clean bills of health, expect folks coming in to have work skills or anything else of *most* of our ancesters.

On top of that, just about everyone who immigrated illegally to this land were thieves...stealing lands, game, natural resources, freedoms and dreams.

Sorry...just had to share *my* perspective.

Now...if everyone with a natural right to claim domain over this continent would please step to the other room for refreshments while we clear out the illegals...
 
Nasty said:
Let's not forget that very few of *us* should be here...after all, the ndn nations were never allowed to require green cards, stipulate language requirements, be provided clean bills of health, expect folks coming in to have work skills or anything else of *most* of our ancesters.

On top of that, just about everyone who immigrated illegally to this land were thieves...stealing lands, game, natural resources, freedoms and dreams.

Sorry...just had to share *my* perspective.

Now...if everyone with a natural right to claim domain over this continent would please step to the other room for refreshments while we clear out the illegals...
Click to expand...
Now that's really nice to hear that.
 
Nasty said:
Let's not forget that very few of *us* should be here...after all, the ndn nations were never allowed to require green cards, stipulate language requirements, be provided clean bills of health, expect folks coming in to have work skills or anything else of *most* of our ancesters.

On top of that, just about everyone who immigrated illegally to this land were thieves...stealing lands, game, natural resources, freedoms and dreams.

Sorry...just had to share *my* perspective.

Now...if everyone with a natural right to claim domain over this continent would please step to the other room for refreshments while we clear out the illegals...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately for your point history has prooved the ndn strategy wasn't a good one. Hence, here we are doing all the things you said above to try and keep "our" country ours. I think its terrible what we did to the ndn's, but I'm not willing to allow someone else to do the same to us out of guilt.
 
Kevin, I think another issue is this. What is the impact of unlimited labor willing to work for under the "minimum wage" on wage levels in this country? As a buyer of labor, businessmen probably think a limitless supply of labor at low cost is great. Those who sell their labor probably think otherwise.
....................................................................................................
Mexico says it is losing 400-500,000 jobs a year to Asia because Mexico's wage levels are "too high."
.....................................................................................................
At least we have the answer to the acuracy of President Clinton's repeated assurances that free trade with China would produce an abundance of jobs in the U.S. .................> The Dollar Store is hiring.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top