What America Is Today, Rant On:

I wouldn't have expected you to Andy...I just wanted to inject a bit of perspective into the thread.
 
Thomas Linton said:
At least we have the answer to the acuracy of President Clinton's repeated assurances that free trade with China would produce an abundance of jobs in the U.S. .................> The Dollar Store is hiring.
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Of course George HW Bush fed us that line of crap first.

I wasn't offended at all Nasty, and feel truly guilty when I consider what we did to the ndn's. Its good to keep perspective, and this thread needs ocasional speed bumps.:thumbup:
 
Nasty said:
Let's not forget that very few of *us* should be here...after all, the ndn nations were never allowed to require green cards, stipulate language requirements, be provided clean bills of health, expect folks coming in to have work skills or anything else of *most* of our ancesters.

On top of that, just about everyone who immigrated illegally to this land were thieves...stealing lands, game, natural resources, freedoms and dreams.

Sorry...just had to share *my* perspective.

Now...if everyone with a natural right to claim domain over this continent would please step to the other room for refreshments while we clear out the illegals...
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Homo Sap is a violent species in all its branches and takes a violent view of the "other." Look at our history. Indian tribes warred on one another, conquered, and displaced just like Celtic and Germanic tribes. When I was a kid and lived for a time in Canada, I was taken to an island covered with bones of Assiboins (sp?) killed by the Cree in a war in the 1800's. Rodents had chewed on the bones for the minerals, but you could still see what they were. Trapped them. Starved them. Finished them off when they were too weak to resist. I had nightmares about that for years. It was not Happy Valley before the Europeans came to stay.
 
In many respects, most politicians belong to the same party - the Politician Party. They joist back and forth for power because power is a rush and it pays.
 
aproy1101 said:
""It's thanks to us that this country is what it is to this day, and what [it] will be for the future," said Ardaya Barron, a native Bolivian who joined the protest in Washington
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gawds, i want to reply to everything here... but will reply to the first one, because of the Bolivian thing, which i find funny and coincidental... on the radio the other day, a local business woman was saying she gladly hired legal immigrants at living wages, benefits, etc. many of them were trying hard and following the LONG legal road to becoming citizens. however, several of those guys would pressure her, practically daily, to hire their buddies for cash, under the table, all of them illegals (so called crim-aliens)... she resists, but the offer is there, and for some business people, tempting. after all, the punishments are hardly ever used and the laws are soft.

it's my understanding that most of europe and canada, and australia, and new zealand are totally hard on anyone not native living there, let alone getting a job that might displace a native. hell, sometimes it's hard to even VISIT canada, because they might think you'll take away $20 from a street performer. believe it.

locally, boston area, they recently voted to allow illegals to be safe from prosecution, and to not prosecute anyone giving them aid or comfort. big benefit to local rich cats, who hire a lot of the illegals for summer migrant work, cape cod, the islands, etc. they had an INS scare a couple years ago, the illegals vanished. gone. the beach/tourisrism suffered. the companies could NOT hire local kids/etc at decent wages. suffering.

i have neighbors, from many countries where i live. i don't know their status, but they have full sets of famlies from grandparents and great grandkids, all living in the same unit (max 2 bedrooms)... 5 adults, and many kids. can't imagine how they have room to sleep, and fit in the leather sofa and big screen tv (really). they have several brand new vehicles each, often big trucks live 1500 cc uber trucks. they're apparently working, i don't know where. i'd ask, but none of them, except the kids, can speak english. i do know for a fact that at least a couple of these guys didn't even have licenses or insurance, they were "surprised" they needed it. they hide behind ignorance of law. my friend's landlord is from srilanka. speaks little english, but oddly, he's fluent when you call in a "bursted pipe emergency" ;)

i can't afford all the spending i see, even when i'm working - speaking of - the software economy sucks here bad, but it's worse elsewhere. thanx off shore jobs. want to know why computers suck so much? lack of quality programming and education. geez.

i'm all for bringing our boys home from an illegal war, stop bashing the countries that "told us so", and lock our borders down, demand foreign loans paid back on penalty of losing usa based assets, and becoming bad assed badgers defending our turf. then we can go about sorting out who's who inside. legally.

bladite
 
aproy1101 said:
Of course George HW Bush fed us that line of crap first.

I wasn't offended at all Nasty, and feel truly guilty when I consider what we did to the ndn's. Its good to keep perspective, and this thread needs ocasional speed bumps.:thumbup:
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But once again!

Russell Feingold on Free Trade
Democratic Jr Senator (WI)

  • Voted NO on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade.
  • Voted NO on establishing free trade between US & Singapore.
  • Voted NO on establishing free trade between the US and Chile.
  • Voted NO on extending free trade to Andean nations.
  • Voted NO on granting normal trade relations status to Vietnam.
  • Voted NO on removing common goods from national security export rules.
  • Voted NO on permanent normal trade relations with China.
  • Voted NO on expanding trade to the third world.
  • Voted NO on renewing 'fast track' presidential trade authority.
  • Voted YES on imposing
trade sanctions on Japan for closed market.

Rated 25% by CATO, indicating a pro-fair trade voting record
 
Bladite said:
want to know why computers suck so much? lack of quality programming and education. geez.

i'm all for bringing our boys home from an illegal war, stop bashing the countries that "told us so", and lock our borders down, demand foreign loans paid back on penalty of losing usa based assets, and becoming bad assed badgers defending our turf. then we can go about sorting out who's who inside. legally.

bladite
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Hear hear.

We, as a country, desperately need to decide whether we want Wal-Mart cheap crap made in China that will wear out in a year, or something that we will pay twice as much for that will last four. We need to decide if we value our fellow citizens enough to pay more for the services and goods rendered. We, as those lucky few still rendering the goods and services, need to take the quality of what we provide more seriously. And we also have a right to expect a LIVING (read, not minimum) wage for doing so.

In short, we as a country need to decide if we have any values left, any committments toward each other, and then back up those values up with some economic muscle. We need to be informed consumers. We need to care enough to know where our money is going, who it is supporting, and what they are doing with it when it gets there. If we were conscientious with our spending habits, I think more of our money would stay here at home, and I think we might have a moral leg left to stand on when accused of enslaving the third world for the sake of cheap socks. Or beef.

Or oil.

You get what you pay for. And we can't have it both ways forever.
 
I'm going to stay away from imigration as an issue. I know my views are different from many peoples and I dont think anything would be gained by argueing them. I will instead coment on the smaller and less important things in this thread. Lets start with this.

Sounds like Fiengold is a a bit of a hypocrit. Voted no on lots of free trade stuff, sounds good to me, I think the markets have proven that they cannot manage themselves. But voted yes to force japans markets open. Japan closed its markets for the same reason Fiengold voted no on CAFTA, to protect their economy. Sounds like Mr. Fiengold is againsed freetrade untill his principles interfear with making money. I'm all for using government to protect economic sectors that need it to be competative, hell the north american auto industry wouldnt be around unless japanese companies kept their prices artificialy high over here. But when a country protects its own economy from competition while using its clout to keep other economies open you get imperialism and the same problems the britsh empire faced 100-200 years ago.

Gord
 
> What makes a war "legal"?

> Most of our computers come from Asia - not just plastic shower clogs.

> Russell Dana Feingold also:

Favors federal single-payor system of National Health Care
Favors "multinational foreign policy"
Favors abolition of captial punishment
Opposes "port barrel spending" - really does.
Opposes "soft money" in political campaigns
Opposed the 2001 USA Patriot Act (passed 99-1 in Senate)
Negotiated compromise 2006 USA Patriot Act - then voted against it
Believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right to bear arms
Voted NOT to renew so-called "assault-weapons" so-called "ban"
Gets a "D" from the NRA for pro-gun control positions
Has a rating from Americans for Democratic Action of 96% "liberal'
Moved for the censure of President Bush for NSA eavesdropping (motion not seconded)
Only D Senator to support impeachment of President Clinton, then voted not guilty
 
richardallen said:
"the French" "the US-Americans" "the Mexicans" - do I need to say more? Thanks for your stereotypes :)

Keno
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Excellent point!

The Americans
The Germans
The Republicans
The Democrats
The Liberals
The Conservatives
The Turks
The Muslims
(American) "Southerners"
The "Gun Lobby"
The young
The old
The rich
The poor

To show how dangerous it is to overgeneralize, a "moderate" (per New York Times) Islamic cleric in Afghanistan proposed that a certain convert to Christianity should have his head cut off and be "torn to pieces."

But generalizing is how humans sort data. We go from the specific up the ladder of abstraction, getting further and further from reality. :confused:
 
Thomas Linton said:
> What makes a war "legal"?

> Most of our computers come from Asia - not just plastic shower clogs.

> Russell Dana Feingold also:

Favors federal single-payor system of National Health Care
Favors "multinational foreign policy"
Favors abolition of captial punishment
Opposes "port barrel spending" - really does.
Opposes "soft money" in political campaigns
Opposed the 2001 USA Patriot Act (passed 99-1 in Senate)
Negotiated compromise 2006 USA Patriot Act - then voted against it
Believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right to bear arms
Voted NOT to renew so-called "assault-weapons" so-called "ban"
Gets a "D" from the NRA for pro-gun control positions
Has a rating from Americans for Democratic Action of 96% "liberal'
Moved for the censure of President Bush for NSA eavesdropping (motion not seconded)
Only D Senator to support impeachment of President Clinton, then voted not guilty
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I'd call that independant.

I like the fact that he was the only senator the first time to vote against the Patriot Act, even though at that time Public Opinion was for it.



Wonder why NRA give him a D? Cause he favors background checks and trigger locks? I didn't quite get that one.

How do you all feel about the background check thing? I didn't like the Brady Bill and the 5 day waiting period, but as long as it is an instant check with no records kept I don't mind too bad. On one hand I would dislike having to get a background check to buy a gun at a gunshow, but on the other hand I can see how someone with a criminal record would be able to get one there.
 
Thomas Linton said:
Excellent point!

The Americans
The Germans
The Republicans
The Democrats
The Liberals
The Conservatives
The Turks
The Muslims
(American) "Southerners"
The "Gun Lobby"
The young
The old
The rich
The poor

... :confused:
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i quote from the boomer bible, pp 112, "the book of damn yankees, otherwise known as the book of manifest destiny..."

chapter 1
across the atlantic ocean from europe, there was a place called north america, which was discovered by an italian explorer in the employ of the queen of spain.
colonized extensively by the spanish and the french, developed into a rich nation by the labor of african slaves supplied by the dutch, and thus became the largest english-speaking nation on earth, namely, the united states of america.
the inhabitants of the united states decided to call themselves yankees, for some reason, and eventually noticing that the rest of the world was there, decided to rule it. this is their story.

the spaniards arrived in north america first. and settled in florida, which had a nice warm climate, and not much else. several years later, english settlers landed in virginia, and started a colony called jamestown, which had everything it needed to establish a solid english presence in north america, except money, provisions, adequate military support, and adequate numbers of settlers.

and it goes on and on ... just like history :)

bladite
 
hollowdweller said:
Wonder why NRA give him a D? Cause he favors background checks and trigger locks? I didn't quite get that one.
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HD, arn't you an NRA member? (I am.) Don't you read the American Rifleman? Clearly, the NRA, as an institution, is absolutist. It opposes ANY restriction on access to and carrying of any weapons at any time anywhere. The NRA is always watching for the "camel's nose."

Also, the NRA has an institutional interest in fanning as much anxiety as possible. So the situation changes, but the cries of alarm are as strident as ever. If the Consitution was amended to remove the phony "militia" argument, the NRA would immediately sound the alarm about ending restrictions on RPG's. (Anyone recall the "March of Dimes" and what happened when TB became a trivial national health issue? It found another issue.)

On the other hoof, the NRA is about the only game in town when it comes to effectively opposing those who want a totally disarmed citizenry (except for their bodyguards).

How do you all feel about the background check thing? I didn't like the Brady Bill and the 5 day waiting period, but as long as it is an instant check with no records kept I don't mind too bad. On one hand I would dislike having to get a background check to buy a gun at a gunshow, but on the other hand I can see how someone with a criminal record would be able to get one there.
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Having seen "tatted" gangbangers buying handguns (with wads of cash) by the dozen - literally - at a local gun show (and watched their tremendous amusement as they carried their goods past the policemen guarding the entrance to the show), I favor background checks of the kind I currently have to pass. And I, like Thomas Jefferson, favor liberalizing laws that allow honest citizens to carry weapons (just not rocket-propelled grenades).
 
Thomas Linton said:
Having seen "tatted" gangbangers buying handguns (with wads of cash) by the dozen - literally - at a local gun show (and watched their tremendous amusement as they carried their goods past the policemen guarding the entrance to the show), I favor background checks of the kind I currently have to pass. And I, like Thomas Jefferson, favor liberalizing laws that allow honest citizens to carry weapons (just not rocket-propelled grenades).
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everyone, should have at least one gun. issued at birth (welcome to america), and trained to use one. they should also be allowed to carry knives and tools, and gawd bless them, anything they want to within reasonable restrictions (reasonable being common sense reasonable, not some fancy political definition, nukes - no - thems not reasonable. hand grenades? not unless it's fishing season, you get the drift).

seems areas that have easy legal access to guns and reasonable laws about them have very few problems WITH guns. seems also that areas with extreme gun laws, it's only the law abiding the suffers. take DC for instance. pretty much the only people that have guns are either legally entitled to, are criminals, or nobody will actually do anything to if they're caught. lots of death and murders there. countless it seems. vt? nh? me? ak? not so much. weird, huh?

babies, sign up today!

bladite
 
If 'gangbangers' were felons, then they were commiting a further felony by buying at a gun show. As almost ALL of the illegal purchases shown by the 4473 forms are not followed up on and prosecuted, I am not interested in further restricting my rights in private sales.

munk
 
munk said:
If 'gangbangers' were felons, then they were commiting a further felony by buying at a gun show. As almost ALL of the illegal purchases shown by the 4473 forms are not followed up on and prosecuted, I am not interested in further restricting my rights in private sales.

munk
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Yes, Sir. Well said. Same thing with immigration.

We've just completely failed to enforce our own laws. We have to have migrant workers to pick our food, etc. Unfortunately they do take jobs Americans would love to have too. My buddy is a painter. He has to advertise himself as an "English Speaking American Painter" in order to compete with the illegals. They will do the job for 1/3 the money. Those are American jobs. I have painted prefessionally, and really enjoy it. Last year when I had no full time employment I was REALLY desperate for work and happy doing labor intensive work with my hands. No chance. No chance at all. Don't believe that is good for our country. My health insurance has trippled in that time.
 
Thomas Linton said:
HD, arn't you an NRA member? (I am.) Don't you read the American Rifleman? Clearly, the NRA, as an institution, is absolutist. It opposes ANY restriction on access to and carrying of any weapons at any time anywhere. The NRA is always watching for the "camel's nose."

Also, the NRA has an institutional interest in fanning as much anxiety as possible. So the situation changes, but the cries of alarm are as strident as ever. If the Consitution was amended to remove the phony "militia" argument, the NRA would immediately sound the alarm about ending restrictions on RPG's. (Anyone recall the "March of Dimes" and what happened when TB became a trivial national health issue? It found another issue.)

On the other hoof, the NRA is about the only game in town when it comes to effectively opposing those who want a totally disarmed citizenry (except for their bodyguards).


Having seen "tatted" gangbangers buying handguns (with wads of cash) by the dozen - literally - at a local gun show (and watched their tremendous amusement as they carried their goods past the policemen guarding the entrance to the show), I favor background checks of the kind I currently have to pass. And I, like Thomas Jefferson, favor liberalizing laws that allow honest citizens to carry weapons (just not rocket-propelled grenades).
Click to expand...

Tom,

I quit the NRA when they supported the daughter of a convicted governor of ours who was a Republican but had no record on gun control over a Democratic candidate with a proven gun friendly record at the state level.

That's wild about the gang bangers. Gun show clientele here is about like the constituency of the MWKK.:D
 
aproy1101 said:
Yes, Sir. Well said. Same thing with immigration.

We've just completely failed to enforce our own laws. We have to have migrant workers to pick our food, etc. Unfortunately they do take jobs Americans would love to have too. My buddy is a painter. He has to advertise himself as an "English Speaking American Painter" in order to compete with the illegals. They will do the job for 1/3 the money. Those are American jobs. I have painted prefessionally, and really enjoy it. Last year when I had no full time employment I was REALLY desperate for work and happy doing labor intensive work with my hands. No chance. No chance at all. Don't believe that is good for our country. My health insurance has trippled in that time.
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I have some hippie friends that pick fruit and do forestry stuff, tree planting and stuff. They almost all have to work at small places that specificially hire hippies because almost all the big places truck in Jamacians and stuff to do it.

It's a global race to the bottom:thumbdn:
 
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