What do you do when someone asks to borrow your knife?

i think last time i posted in one of these threads i think i sais i say 'what do you want to cut?'

this time im going to say that i say 'no!'

next time im going to say that i start a wild-eyed rant about how they are not qualified to employ my precision cutting instrument because everyone is a giant sissy nowdays.
 
My EDC is an old Endura3 in ATS-55. I've got a couple of backups I bought off the exchange so I'd probably lend it to them and make sure they didn't try to pry open a car door or anything silly. I recently scraped some epoxy and paint off a granite stone with the Endura. Really beat up the edge. Remarkably it's still doing everything I need done everyday except I have to use a touch more muscle. There's method to my madness, I recently acquired a Wicked Edge and I wanted a ripe edge to bring back from the dead. We'll see how it goes. ;)

Oh, and would I lend some fool at work one of my more expensive blades ? I don't think so. :D
 
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Esav Benyamin said:
j4ckwr4th, you are really over-thinking this. A person casually asking to use my knife, who has no important task to use it for, and no great skill with knives, may either damage the knife or himself.

Damage the knife? Easy for him -- or you -- to take the value of my property lightly, is it?
Damage himself? Working all my life in a very real world, I will not allow his inexperience to put me in a bad light. Don't hand a gun to a child, or any hazardous choice in life to someone incapable of dealing with it. That's not selfishness, that's realism.

Perhaps I could make a friend for knives by cutting or prying the job myself, showing him the right way. Or perhaps I could let him learn to make his own way in the world by buying, maintaining, and using his own tools, as we did.

If he needs a teacher, we could talk about it. The way not to learn is "lemme see ya knife" ... "SNAP! oops, twisted too hard".
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Bottom line is it's YOUR knife. You can do what you want with it. If you chose not to let anyone use it for what ever reason, it is fine. You should not have to justify you're actions to anyone. I mean, if you have a nice car, or even a not so nice car, are you going to lend it out to anyone? Same rules should apply here. I had a cheap knife that I let my brother in law use, and he injured himself. Not the knife's fault. Not even his fault. It was my fault for allowing someone use a cutting instrument for something other than cutting.
 
I hand them my knife. Course, typically if somebody breaks something, they offer to pay for it, and I normally tell them such when I hand them my knife. I've never had somebody break the tip, roll an edge, or anything like that with my knives. I've never had anybody hurt themselves with one of my knives.
I do more damage to my knives than anybody else does.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
j4ckwr4th, you are really over-thinking this. A person casually asking to use my knife, who has no important task to use it for, and no great skill with knives, may either damage the knife or himself.

Damage the knife? Easy for him -- or you -- to take the value of my property lightly, is it?
Damage himself? Working all my life in a very real world, I will not allow his inexperience to put me in a bad light. Don't hand a gun to a child, or any hazardous choice in life to someone incapable of dealing with it. That's not selfishness, that's realism.

Perhaps I could make a friend for knives by cutting or prying the job myself, showing him the right way. Or perhaps I could let him learn to make his own way in the world by buying, maintaining, and using his own tools, as we did.

If he needs a teacher, we could talk about it. The way not to learn is "lemme see ya knife" ... "SNAP! oops, twisted too hard".
Click to expand...
Aldous Huxley was a PRONOUNCED humanist, and the poem you are quoting (whether you realize it or not) supports MY side of the table. This is two posts of yours where the ending statement leaves me baffled as to intent.

EDITTED PART: "SHOULD I" Drop the subject entirely and move on?
Should i drop this subject and just move on. Its its previous incarnation this post could be misinterpreted as me asking (telling) esav to drop the subject and move on, not me, so i had to clear that right up :)
 
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These threads are always good for a laugh.

I was working in my backyard putting up a fence and since I knew I was going to be opening bags of concrete, I opted to carry a cheap $10 enlan.

I lent it to my dad to cut open a bag and he said, "I don't want to use a $400 knife for that!"

I got a good laugh out of it, he is mostly clueless but I have talked to him about collecting and have shown off some of my nicer ones. At least he respected it.
 
j4ckwr4th said:
First: i apologize if i offended you, or any other member/staff of this site.
Second: i respect the opinions of everyone, even those i disagree with, BUT, i am allowed to express my side (which i have now done and do not plan to continue in this thread, save for the response of a mod (my first here, but not my first ever, so i'm aware that i have stepped on some toes at this point)
Third: I honestly do not see the link in your argument Esav ( i say argument from years of calling intelligent discussions that :P)
You say :

First phrase is (and im sorry if its received as derogatory, i honestly cannot think of a more apt term to describe the underlying sentiment) is selfish? your argument boils down to "the risk of you potentially damaging my knife is NOT worth the potential gain of a new knife aficionado" and i cannot for the life of me see why you are either
A: way too busy in your life to spend 30 seconds explaining the benefits of knife ownership to someone who JUST asked you for a knife ,
OR
B: you associate with the sort of disreputable characters who you apparently deem unworthy of such a cause.
Either way it is an exception, not the rule, on the whole people want whats best, even if they don't know what it is. I still think most of you missed my reference to teaching a man to fish...

Lastly, this one just escapes me and am willing to listen to an explanation before i respond to it, because quite honestly it confuses me.

(how did i leave you with the impression that my things were worth more than anyone? my sole argument is against that very point. my initial reaction was to label this an emotional response, but like i said, i will wait for clarification.)
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An intelligent person does not need to be told they need a tool, or are making life harder for themselves, whether out of an illogical fear or because they willfully ignore the usefulness of a knife. There's a reason so many people used to carry knives, and why they don't now. Common sense or the lack thereof.
 
j4ckwr4th said:
Aldous Huxley was a PRONOUNCED humanist, and the poem you are quoting (whether you realize it or not) supports MY side of the table. This is two posts of yours where the ending statement leaves me baffled as to intent.

Drop the subject entirely and move on?
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Aldous Huxley was keen on pointing out how modern times were destroying human instinct too. I immediately saw a parallel between Brave New World and our present society, and I was kinda young the first time I read it.
 
Why I now keep a mirca or ps4 on my keys, if they need a blade I couldnt care if they damage the super cheap blades on leatherman's.
 
RemyKaze said:
An intelligent person does not need to be told they need a tool, or are making life harder for themselves, whether out of an illogical fear or because they willfully ignore the usefulness of a knife. There's a reason so many people used to carry knives, and why they don't now. Common sense or the lack thereof.
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Very well put Remy! :thumbup::thumbup: This should be on a patch or tee shirt or something... Too many non-believers out there.
 
Say this to the tune of "What the fox say":

No no no no no no no no
No no no no no no no no
No no no no no no no no
No no no no no no no no


Keep repeating till they go away. :D
 
RemyKaze said:
Aldous Huxley was keen on pointing out how modern times were destroying human instinct too.
Click to expand...


in all caps so it is clear ^^: THIS IS MY POINT. the "modern" viewpoint aldous struggled against was THIS!!! why are your things more important then others' experiences. yes handing your Sebenza to the guy scraping putty of his desk ( or whatever the example earlier) could result in edge damage and or blade failure (depending on use) BUT!!!! could you imagine the impact it would have on someone when they realize there split second request cost 500$ and an ample amount of your respect? perhaps that impact is lost in the impact owning a 500$ has for some of you. Could you imagine if doctors or lawyers or politicians acted with this level of callous disregard. "If he wanted to be healed/defended/represented in the lawmaking, he should have become a doctor/lawyer/politician himself. Im not gonna do it for him cuz i worked too hard just to hand my things over to this guy/girl"
Fine, you wanna play that way play that way. you dont wanna directly address my concerns, valid stance, who am i afterall.
but somewhere in here is two lessons, one is we never really grow up, we just get really good and being children, and two is we have a hard time putting ourselves in the role of the needy, but not the needed.
Please think this subject through once more....

As for the "its kind of like a really expensive car, you wouldn't lend it out"
Funny this suit should be broken, as just last week my brother was filling up his truck, when a red ferrari sported in. we live in a rural area in the middle of kansas, this thing was sticking out lol. To my brothers surprise, when he asked if he could photograph the car with his Note 3, then gentle man said: " pictures? hell you wanna sit in it?"
I could not believe the series of photos and the corresponding video he produced on said phone.
What did the gentleman have to gain: nothing, the admiration of a bearded stranger at a gas station perhaps ( a feeling im sure he would have received had he merely filled up his tank)
What did he stand to loseL well for starters a complete stranger was now siting at the drivers seat of his 180,000$ Car. the damage a malicious person could achieve would be staggering.

But nothing like that happened. my brother got some pictures and a story, the guy only got a story lol.

No fire, no wreck, no stolen car, no broken transmission, no over heated turbos, no broken CF body panels....

If he can be cavalier about his 1/5th of a million dollar car, cant you tightwads open up your hamfists for 2 minutes and let the poor sap asking for a knife just have the knife and skip all the judgements and internal resolutions of lesson teaching to strangers.
 
RemyKaze said:
An intelligent person does not need to be told they need a tool, or are making life harder for themselves, whether out of an illogical fear or because they willfully ignore the usefulness of a knife. There's a reason so many people used to carry knives, and why they don't now. Common sense or the lack thereof.
Click to expand...

You just diagnosed the human race as having a degenerative disease crippling or logical thought processes, which if true would be beyond the scope of this thread ( but i dont believe, its sounds like a biased opinion to me[one i hope to change])

An intelligent person absolutely needs to be told that they need a tool, for if in ignorance they are unaware of the existence of the correct tool, it does not in fact make them less intelligent, but rather less educated ( again something a 30 second conversation would hammer out) i don't like the underlying tone here that the human race was perfect at some point in the past and is now drifting away from that perfection. If you or anyone else has a problem with peoples level or awareness or accountability, i encourage you to take the time, invest in them. Show them what you know and more importantly WHY you know it. You just dont understand the importance of random bridge building until you find yourself scrambling for one. Common sense told a man 500 years ago that the surface of our world was a flat plane that ended in a drop off to oblivion ( or insert your time-beaten analogy, idc)

Its not common sense or a lack thereof that motivates any of these "No's" - its materialism plain and simple, your THINGS are worth more than those PEOPLE. The " i dont want them to cut themselves rule" applied to you at some point as well, is it not their right to be passed the flame of bladeship?
 
j4ckwr4th said:
If he can be cavalier about his 1/5th of a million dollar car, cant you tightwads open up your hamfists for 2 minutes and let the poor sap asking for a knife just have the knife and skip all the judgements and internal resolutions of lesson teaching to strangers.
Click to expand...

I've seen a guy slice his hand open with a knife he borrowed.
I got blamed when some jerk at work borrowed MY knife...and then promptly sliced open a 1500 pound bag of wheat.
He didn't own a knife...I did...the boss decided I must have been the guy who did it.

So I'm sticking with
"No no no no no no no no
No no no no no no no no
No no no no no no no no
No no no no no no no no"

Despite what one or two guys on the internet might think of me.

And if someone actually needs something cut, I will cut it for him, like I did at work last week.
 
j4ckwr4th said:
in all caps so it is clear ^^: THIS IS MY POINT. the "modern" viewpoint aldous struggled against was THIS!!! why are your things more important then others' experiences. yes handing your Sebenza to the guy scraping putty of his desk ( or whatever the example earlier) could result in edge damage and or blade failure (depending on use) BUT!!!! could you imagine the impact it would have on someone when they realize there split second request cost 500$ and an ample amount of your respect? perhaps that impact is lost in the impact owning a 500$ has for some of you. Could you imagine if doctors or lawyers or politicians acted with this level of callous disregard. "If he wanted to be healed/defended/represented in the lawmaking, he should have become a doctor/lawyer/politician himself. Im not gonna do it for him cuz i worked too hard just to hand my things over to this guy/girl"
Fine, you wanna play that way play that way. you dont wanna directly address my concerns, valid stance, who am i afterall.
but somewhere in here is two lessons, one is we never really grow up, we just get really good and being children, and two is we have a hard time putting ourselves in the role of the needy, but not the needed.
Please think this subject through once more....

As for the "its kind of like a really expensive car, you wouldn't lend it out"
Funny this suit should be broken, as just last week my brother was filling up his truck, when a red ferrari sported in. we live in a rural area in the middle of kansas, this thing was sticking out lol. To my brothers surprise, when he asked if he could photograph the car with his Note 3, then gentle man said: " pictures? hell you wanna sit in it?"
I could not believe the series of photos and the corresponding video he produced on said phone.
What did the gentleman have to gain: nothing, the admiration of a bearded stranger at a gas station perhaps ( a feeling im sure he would have received had he merely filled up his tank)
What did he stand to loseL well for starters a complete stranger was now siting at the drivers seat of his 180,000$ Car. the damage a malicious person could achieve would be staggering.

But nothing like that happened. my brother got some pictures and a story, the guy only got a story lol.

No fire, no wreck, no stolen car, no broken transmission, no over heated turbos, no broken CF body panels....

If he can be cavalier about his 1/5th of a million dollar car, cant you tightwads open up your hamfists for 2 minutes and let the poor sap asking for a knife just have the knife and skip all the judgements and internal resolutions of lesson teaching to strangers.
Click to expand...

First, what's with the insults?

Anyway, my point is that humans are losing their instincts and common sense, a point which you completely disregarded in all of my posts. The people on this site have common sense and buy knives to fill a need instead of using keys or being s**t out of luck when they NEED that tool.

Conversely, the people who do not have knives, and yet need them, represent a clear lack of common sense. Often these people are repeat offenders, which means they're constantly asking for your knife instead of recognizing the need for their own. Why would anyone reward blatant ignorance, and a lack of initiative to acquire their own tools? Also, all too often a person is just sensible enough to realize they are likely to break a tool or hurt themselves especially with a sharp knife, so they simply don't bother to keep one handy.

It isn't about being tightfisted. I don't carry Sebenzas. But I paid for all my knives, and I love em. I educate people about knives, and sometimes I will buy people knives if they express interest. But someone who plainly does not respect a knife or other tool should not just be handed one. That's asking for blood or a broken tool, which is really pointless from a logical standpoint. Is it not easier to cut something for them and educate them at the same time? Saves them pain, saves you a knife.

As for educating folks, why don't you step over to the PIF thread and educate some new members by passing on some of your knives? It fits right in with your idea of spreading knowledge, and I can tell you a lot of new users have benefited from it. I wouldn't want to think you're a hypocrite.

I don't know why you're pushing the issue so hard. Do what you want with your knives, and let others do what they want. If you want to be as dense as the guy with the Ferrari, go ahead. Sometimes pride and/or good intentions outweigh common sense. Please don't judge others by your standards.
 
j4ckwr4th said:
in all caps so it is clear ^^: THIS IS MY POINT. the "modern" viewpoint aldous struggled against was THIS!!! why are your things more important then others' experiences. yes handing your Sebenza to the guy scraping putty of his desk ( or whatever the example earlier) could result in edge damage and or blade failure (depending on use) BUT!!!! could you imagine the impact it would have on someone when they realize there split second request cost 500$ and an ample amount of your respect? perhaps that impact is lost in the impact owning a 500$ has for some of you. Could you imagine if doctors or lawyers or politicians acted with this level of callous disregard. "If he wanted to be healed/defended/represented in the lawmaking, he should have become a doctor/lawyer/politician himself. Im not gonna do it for him cuz i worked too hard just to hand my things over to this guy/girl"
Fine, you wanna play that way play that way. you dont wanna directly address my concerns, valid stance, who am i afterall.
but somewhere in here is two lessons, one is we never really grow up, we just get really good and being children, and two is we have a hard time putting ourselves in the role of the needy, but not the needed.
Please think this subject through once more....

As for the "its kind of like a really expensive car, you wouldn't lend it out"
Funny this suit should be broken, as just last week my brother was filling up his truck, when a red ferrari sported in. we live in a rural area in the middle of kansas, this thing was sticking out lol. To my brothers surprise, when he asked if he could photograph the car with his Note 3, then gentle man said: " pictures? hell you wanna sit in it?"
I could not believe the series of photos and the corresponding video he produced on said phone.
What did the gentleman have to gain: nothing, the admiration of a bearded stranger at a gas station perhaps ( a feeling im sure he would have received had he merely filled up his tank)
What did he stand to loseL well for starters a complete stranger was now siting at the drivers seat of his 180,000$ Car. the damage a malicious person could achieve would be staggering.

But nothing like that happened. my brother got some pictures and a story, the guy only got a story lol.

No fire, no wreck, no stolen car, no broken transmission, no over heated turbos, no broken CF body panels....

If he can be cavalier about his 1/5th of a million dollar car, cant you tightwads open up your hamfists for 2 minutes and let the poor sap asking for a knife just have the knife and skip all the judgements and internal resolutions of lesson teaching to strangers.
Click to expand...

Yes... but did he let you're brother drive it? If someone wants to look at a knife that I have, no problem. Hold it. Fine. Just don't use it. I don't want to be sued by said person after they injure themselves.
 
Depends on the knife, the person borrowing it, their experience and intended usage.
 
j4ckwr4th said:
You just diagnosed the human race as having a degenerative disease crippling or logical thought processes, which if true would be beyond the scope of this thread ( but i dont believe, its sounds like a biased opinion to me[one i hope to change])

An intelligent person absolutely needs to be told that they need a tool, for if in ignorance they are unaware of the existence of the correct tool, it does not in fact make them less intelligent, but rather less educated ( again something a 30 second conversation would hammer out) i don't like the underlying tone here that the human race was perfect at some point in the past and is now drifting away from that perfection. If you or anyone else has a problem with peoples level or awareness or accountability, i encourage you to take the time, invest in them. Show them what you know and more importantly WHY you know it. You just dont understand the importance of random bridge building until you find yourself scrambling for one. Common sense told a man 500 years ago that the surface of our world was a flat plane that ended in a drop off to oblivion ( or insert your time-beaten analogy, idc)

Its not common sense or a lack thereof that motivates any of these "No's" - its materialism plain and simple, your THINGS are worth more than those PEOPLE. The " i dont want them to cut themselves rule" applied to you at some point as well, is it not their right to be passed the flame of bladeship?
Click to expand...

Sorry guy, but this is where our opinions vastly differ. If I don't have the tool I need for a job and have never seen nor heard of the tool, I either improvise or I find out what tool I need and acquire it. THAT is common sense. I don't wait for someone to point it out to me, or tell me what it is, or even tell me that I need it. And that is the difference between someone who is aware and can solve their own problems, versus someone who waits for their problems to be solved. And the cause of this is simply that people are technologically spoiled. Results are always within easy reach, so most people don't have to struggle to find a solution.

An example would be someone asking what "m390" is in a thread on this forum. One person asks the question, and I guarantee you another person will tell them to use the search function, possibly even providing a list of links to the very same subject. The person posting the thread would rather rely on others than do the work themselves. Spoiled, simple as that.

Now let's get the thread back on track. This is pointless. To each their own.
 
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