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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
What do you want from the makers ?
- Thread starter pitdog
- Start date
I agree...Supply and demand....Have a great product and the demand will be there...Then it is up to the maker to have supply on hand with a great product....Test, R&D, and Marketing....It works really good with free enterprise and the private sector....My 2 cents!
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2008
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- 3,214
I think the "Supply and Demand" argument might be a little oversimplified.
I have to think about this a bit more, but I'm not sure Mill's economics applies strictly here. There is a second order influence generated by a glut of inexpensive knives, a la Say's Law. The Keynesian model may have better application in this particular market. Also the effects of advertising and consumer education on demand may create an imbalanced field requiring a more complex model.
I don't know enough about this stuff to speak intelligently, but I'm pretty sure "supply and demand" is only part of the answer.
I have to think about this a bit more, but I'm not sure Mill's economics applies strictly here. There is a second order influence generated by a glut of inexpensive knives, a la Say's Law. The Keynesian model may have better application in this particular market. Also the effects of advertising and consumer education on demand may create an imbalanced field requiring a more complex model.
I don't know enough about this stuff to speak intelligently, but I'm pretty sure "supply and demand" is only part of the answer.
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2004
- Messages
- 775
as I keep reading this post I keep coming to the same thought,
If the makers around here were to want stay making knives than they have to enter into the buyers market and that means putting knives into the hands of those willing to spend the money on nice knves and that saddly is collectors, YOu guys are great knife users but it is hard to make a living or even just pay for knives to be made when your directly competing with factory made knives.
You guys making knives around here may have to look at making some more collectable knives, use some damascus and high end handle materials embellishments and such , and charge 400 -500 bucks for them and make the basic user for the guys that use knives, but in the end from what I see in the makers for sale area you need to increase the value of your product .
Undercharging hurts a niche, when people think of a hand made anything they think of the cream of the crop more than just a product, and they should be priced as so. There is a post in her about Rolex and how it does the same thing as a timex but what is the difference...YOu would never say a rolex is a cheap watch. DO your knives preform like cheap knives???
I have tried to sell to just about everymarket on this forum and others , I used to hit 3-4 shows a year and did alright but as I made more of an effort to caiter the survial community I wasn't able to make near the amount that I was making for collectors and other buying groups. For the first time took a lose just to get knives in hands. YOu guys are probly the best group on this board to chat and get together with but the simple fact of the matter is the value driven market makes it hard to stay in that market for long and either you have to pack up because you don't want to make other stuff or
you have to leave the community, and this is a good group .
I know in these times that I must sound like a real ass asking people to charge more when most of use have less but I hate to see handmade knives be devalued in such a manner, companies like Busse, Chirs Reeves didn't succeed beacuse there prices were the lowest,
simply we can do as much pushing of maker around here as we can but if the guys you are pushing to(for a better sence of words) look at a 80 buck knife as too cheap for me to own it doesn't matter, people really do judge by price and inxpesive is cheap, and expensive is quailty or it must be worth it or they wouldn't charge it. True or not this is how the majority look at it.
Business is business and sometime the consumer has to pay to keep business alive or within there circle.
cya
jimi
If the makers around here were to want stay making knives than they have to enter into the buyers market and that means putting knives into the hands of those willing to spend the money on nice knves and that saddly is collectors, YOu guys are great knife users but it is hard to make a living or even just pay for knives to be made when your directly competing with factory made knives.
You guys making knives around here may have to look at making some more collectable knives, use some damascus and high end handle materials embellishments and such , and charge 400 -500 bucks for them and make the basic user for the guys that use knives, but in the end from what I see in the makers for sale area you need to increase the value of your product .
Undercharging hurts a niche, when people think of a hand made anything they think of the cream of the crop more than just a product, and they should be priced as so. There is a post in her about Rolex and how it does the same thing as a timex but what is the difference...YOu would never say a rolex is a cheap watch. DO your knives preform like cheap knives???
I have tried to sell to just about everymarket on this forum and others , I used to hit 3-4 shows a year and did alright but as I made more of an effort to caiter the survial community I wasn't able to make near the amount that I was making for collectors and other buying groups. For the first time took a lose just to get knives in hands. YOu guys are probly the best group on this board to chat and get together with but the simple fact of the matter is the value driven market makes it hard to stay in that market for long and either you have to pack up because you don't want to make other stuff or
you have to leave the community, and this is a good group .
I know in these times that I must sound like a real ass asking people to charge more when most of use have less but I hate to see handmade knives be devalued in such a manner, companies like Busse, Chirs Reeves didn't succeed beacuse there prices were the lowest,
simply we can do as much pushing of maker around here as we can but if the guys you are pushing to(for a better sence of words) look at a 80 buck knife as too cheap for me to own it doesn't matter, people really do judge by price and inxpesive is cheap, and expensive is quailty or it must be worth it or they wouldn't charge it. True or not this is how the majority look at it.
Business is business and sometime the consumer has to pay to keep business alive or within there circle.
cya
jimi
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2007
- Messages
- 5,846
this is a case where there is a basic level of demand- In general, people need to own a knife for using. Even if you advance the opinion that our world has become less needful of one, it's still, realistically, a majority. Not a particular knife, just a knife.
By and large the demand source is uneducated- While my wife CAN get by with a $5 schrade (china) as her disposable knife when she goes to the hospital (she has to leave it in a open locker room). BUt she knows the limits of it and vastly prefers her 'purse knife' which is a small fixed blade. Made by me, of course.
But for many people, the cheapest Big5 sale knife is the one they get, and then they get frustrated when it barely cuts packing tape.
Same thing applies to kitchen knives. I've made dozens of people spend $40-$100 on a decent knife for the kitchen after getting frustrated with their crap knives and pulling something out of my bag that cuts. Education.
Education.
The art, aesthetic, and personal aspects are important- people like to take pride in their belongings. But above all, there's the basic idea of education on functionality- that's part of my job, and part I could do better.
By and large the demand source is uneducated- While my wife CAN get by with a $5 schrade (china) as her disposable knife when she goes to the hospital (she has to leave it in a open locker room). BUt she knows the limits of it and vastly prefers her 'purse knife' which is a small fixed blade. Made by me, of course.
But for many people, the cheapest Big5 sale knife is the one they get, and then they get frustrated when it barely cuts packing tape.
Same thing applies to kitchen knives. I've made dozens of people spend $40-$100 on a decent knife for the kitchen after getting frustrated with their crap knives and pulling something out of my bag that cuts. Education.
Education.
The art, aesthetic, and personal aspects are important- people like to take pride in their belongings. But above all, there's the basic idea of education on functionality- that's part of my job, and part I could do better.
m. wohlwend
BANNED
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2007
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- 2,681
I think the conversation has turned a little to more of a survival thread for knifemakers in hard times. 
I agree very much with Chris and Wade. As a knifemaker you have to diversify your product line, and you have to educate others about the value of custom knives. For years I sold higher end rifles to clients who would then put a bargin basement scope on the rifle and complain it wouldn't shoot good. I had to educate them to spend a little less on the rifle and more on the scope. Same with a custom. Ten years ago I was happy with a Gerber, etc. Now that I know how knives can perform, I really want custom knives.
I am going to stop producing only users. Half of my time in the shop will now be dedicated to making a "higher" end knife. There will be less "users" produced by myself. The reason is so I can reach other markets.
While Pit wanted to know what the members of the forum could do for us, I would say for myself that you have already done alot. I read posts here every day and get to see what has worked and what has not. I was just at a Hammer-in and heard some Mastersmiths lamenting that their knives were rarely used. I don't think that myself or other makers here have had that problem! We have to build a knife that works!
This thread has been very revealing. Thanks Pit for starting this thread.
I agree very much with Chris and Wade. As a knifemaker you have to diversify your product line, and you have to educate others about the value of custom knives. For years I sold higher end rifles to clients who would then put a bargin basement scope on the rifle and complain it wouldn't shoot good. I had to educate them to spend a little less on the rifle and more on the scope. Same with a custom. Ten years ago I was happy with a Gerber, etc. Now that I know how knives can perform, I really want custom knives.
I am going to stop producing only users. Half of my time in the shop will now be dedicated to making a "higher" end knife. There will be less "users" produced by myself. The reason is so I can reach other markets.
While Pit wanted to know what the members of the forum could do for us, I would say for myself that you have already done alot. I read posts here every day and get to see what has worked and what has not. I was just at a Hammer-in and heard some Mastersmiths lamenting that their knives were rarely used. I don't think that myself or other makers here have had that problem!
We have to build a knife that works! This thread has been very revealing. Thanks Pit for starting this thread.
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2007
- Messages
- 6,583
The trouble with supply and demand is that there are to many things that contribute to demand. When times get tough your money is going to the necessities first and luxury items second. Many people here remember when they got buy with a 5.00 Old Hickory knife which did most things well and in tough times, folks will cut costs where they can. I would suspect that the sale of production knives is way down too. You can make a great product but unless you are a big oil company, you can't control demand.