What do you want from the makers ?

[RedbeAR15]

Advertising and Marketing is great if you are in the right market and have the right funds.

I think any maker can be successful, even during the current times, especially in this forum by doing their homework and filling the Niche at a price point that is acceptable, Oh yeah, and be available to your customers -

We don't need damascus Ninja knives, even though they are nice to look at - we need functional art at an affordable price - that will sell a custom IMHO

Thanks and good luck to all

 

[koyote]

I wouldn't use cafepress. Just me, but I wouldn't.

Here's what I would do- find whoever did the BF WSS patches, contact them. tell them they will be getting misc. small orders from knifemakers for various 2 or 3 color patches on an ongoing basis if they can give us a decent price and a minimum order of a dozen. I can order a dozen a month, but I can't order 144 at once.

T shirts- I'm in the process of going down to scope out the local silk screeners this next week. Same deal could apply.

business cards I have, but maybe I should mail them out.

hats might be too much.

Coffee mugs? Only way I will do that is to support an artist. So thanks for the idea, now I'm going to go to the art building and see if any starving students wanna make me mugs.

I'd like to see a good source for vinyl decals. I'm all over it if I find one. I'm actually polling all my friends online right now trying to find someone who's willing to go into business.

 

[d_filgate]

My disposable income went to nothing when I got laid off from my job. Like
others on here, this is the first time I've been unemployed in 22 years.
The way things look, I'm thinking that there probably won't be much happening
for me work-wise until maybe next summer.
I realize that my collecting will most likely be over for a couple of years, but I'm
happy that I've managed to get some good customs that will tide me over until
I can get back on my feet.

So like the others who are putting the blame on the poor economy, I have to
put the blame there as well. Not only will I "not" be buying any more knives
in the forseeable future, I won't be going to restaurants, going to see movies,
taking any vacations, buying magazines, books or a whole host of other "frills"
that I would normally do. Unfortunately, that's the nature of being
unemployed in today's "new" economic reality. My fun from now on is going
to be of the "free" variety. Wish it wasn't so, but that's the hand I've been
dealt, and unfortunately, the hand that many others have been dealt.

 

[m. wohlwend]

I think the WS&S crowd does a good job of promoting the makers on this forum. The members do so by buying knives and posting reviews. As a maker, I have made a choice to not pursue all of my sales on any one forum or just one medium. It's nothing personal, just a matter of marketing.
I have been talking to lots of knife makers, and from mastersmiths on down, what I have taken away from these conversations at the ABS Hammer-in is that education and improving your knife making skills does help your orders, and thus, your income.
If you are a maker who wants to make knife making your living from this, it can be tough. Making knives that appeal to a broad range of buyers will help the maker with marketing.
Thanks Pit for being concerned about us and starting this thread.....

 

[Skimo]

Some customs just cost too much when a similar production knife is cheaper.

There is no way to drum up business like raffles, even poor folk can spare a dollar on a good day.

I think it comes to tasks as well, 5 production knives can fill at least 5 different rolls, one custom knife is stuck being a folder or a fixed blade and is stuck with its blade geometry and intended task(s).

One day I hope to get a custom fixed blade, but until my financial situation is improved I can only hope that the custom makers here can stay in business until I can make an order.

 

[raylaconico]

Pit and everyone, thanks for caring about us knifemakers. We really appreciate that.
Knifemakers, hang in there. It will get better.

 

[koyote]

Some customs just cost too much when a similar production knife is cheaper.

There is no way to drum up business like raffles, even poor folk can spare a dollar on a good day.

I think it comes to tasks as well, 5 production knives can fill at least 5 different rolls, one custom knife is stuck being a folder or a fixed blade and is stuck with its blade geometry and intended task(s).

One day I hope to get a custom fixed blade, but until my financial situation is improved I can only hope that the custom makers here can stay in business until I can make an order.

Some customs do cost too much to replace a production knife. I don't think in field knives that that is a rule.

I also tend to think that with the selection of customs these days, you can get a more versatile knife than most production knives.

ANY knife is stuck with it's geometry, but you'll be hard pressed to find a variable convex grind or a large scandi, or (especially) a decent handle geometry for real world use out of a production in a less expensive price range.

All that said, if you've only got $40, buy Mora

 

[bindlestitch]

Pit and everyone, thanks for caring about us knifemakers. We really appreciate that.
Knifemakers, hang in there. It will get better.

I agree. Thanks Pit and everyone who is chiming in on this thread. It's helpful.
Iz

 

[kgd]

Certainly the public hysteria about knives = weapons is a major problem, more so to custom makers I think. Consider the fact that far and few people these days carry a pocket knife. When everybody carried a pocket knife there were lots of knives out in circulation. This had a couple of effects. One, lots of people bought knives. Two, the commonality of knives meant that this became a common item in which people invested a bit more to show status.

Okay, I have a habit of glancing at peoples belts to see the kinds of things hanging off them. Today you see all kinds of cellphone/blackbury fancy dancy sheaths. I mean, some real humdingers sheaths with sharkskin inlays etc. Even the teens have their bright glow coloured electronic gidget holders/shell/cases whatever. People used to be spending that kind of adornment cash on sheath knives. There are still a few folks like us who value that, but by and large there has been a movement in society to push towards the "toolification" of the knife.

When a knife is viewed simply as a tool then it is hard to argue with the production methods of mass production. I think it is fair to say that most of us view knives as gear/art/tools. Our choice in blades says something about our character and its why we show them off on bladeforms with piles of photos even if the public don't understand our interest.

Really, the education of the public needs to be broader than just "so and so" makes a good knife. The public needs to see the value of a pocket knife as an every day carry. Once they are compelled to see a need for a pocket knife they will then be compelled to personalize their choices.

Christof - if you make t-shirts, I'd like to have one with a picture of Blanche butchering a cow with one of your big seax's

 

[JTC3495]

The biggest problem that the custom makers have is that most people think spending $50.00 is to much for knife. For everyone of us there are 10 guys who never outgrow buck or schrade.

The same guy who goes and spends $1000+ for a rifle or shotgun will go to walmart and buy a china special skinner to carry on his belt. Most of the people on sites like this all see knives for what they are, and are more inclined to spend the money for a quality custom knife.

The sticker & business card idea is a good one. I know it can be tough to spend the money to buy these things, but it is important to get your name out there. If the makers put a couple cards or sticker in each sold knife package then the buyers can help get their name out for them.

 

[kgd]

Most of the people on sites like this all see knives for what they are, and are more inclined to spend the money for a quality custom knife.

I guess I kind of disagree with this. I think most of the public see knives for what they are. A tool, like a screwdriver or hammer that gets used to cut something.

I think we are the odd ones who make knives more special than what they are. I mean, really, much of the performance enhancements of custom knives are auxiliary to the actual task at hand. I'm sure you can improve a hammer's performance by redesigning the weight distribution of the head slightly but it won't really change things all that much. Custom knives offer minor improvements in performance that it takes an expert to figure out. I mean, I can talk all day about why a great knife is a great knife. However, my father might use a sheath knife twice a week if he wore one to cut some string. He'd do the same with a pair of scissors (the bane of a knife nut).

The real thing that custom knives offer is that they are CUSTOM knives. They are unique and embody the craftsmanship of an individual who made it. Every knife from a custom maker has its own little story about the guy who designed and built it. If you can't get off on that or you can't find an audience to appreciate the social-culture aesthetic that values craftsmanship, the small business and family operations, then having a custom knife probably doesn't change much in the grand scheme of things. People have to value the knife as something they want, then they have to value the knife enough to want to personalize the object. Thats when custom knives come into their own.

 

[Rotte]

....The real thing that custom knives offer is that they are CUSTOM knives. They are unique and embody the craftsmanship of an individual who made it. Every knife from a custom maker has its own little story about the guy who designed and built it....

Yup. Custom knives just seem to have a bit of soul, a bit of character. Imbued by their maker. Each is unique. You can't get that from a commercial knife.

I don't want a t-shirt or a fantasy blade with a Dragon Claw hilt, I want a real knife that will do real work. Good design. Great execution. I want great steel with great heat treatment. I want a handle that is comfortable, attractive, and durable. I want a good sheath...no, a great sheath that will keep my unique, workhorse of a knife from getting lost when I dump my canoe or tumble down a back country mountainside. And I want to know that the guy who made it will stand behind his work 'cuz he has pride in his creation.

Maybe that's the difference. I can talk to a guy at Buck or Gerber and he or she will apologize that their knife failed, but he or she won't know the knife. Maybe he'll care about customer service, but I don't think he'll care about the knife.

Good thread.

 

[Benjamin Liu]

I guess I kind of disagree with this. I think most of the public see knives for what they are. A tool, like a screwdriver or hammer that gets used to cut something.

I think we are the odd ones who make knives more special than what they are. I mean, really, much of the performance enhancements of custom knives are auxiliary to the actual task at hand. I'm sure you can improve a hammer's performance by redesigning the weight distribution of the head slightly but it won't really change things all that much. Custom knives offer minor improvements in performance that it takes an expert to figure out. I mean, I can talk all day about why a great knife is a great knife. However, my father might use a sheath knife twice a week if he wore one to cut some string. He'd do the same with a pair of

I agree only when discussing good production knives. Junk knives from places like Bud K, flea markets, and gas station counters are just junk. I've held folder that wouldn't lock and ones that had bladed fall out of the handle, fixed blades which cut their own sheaths and/or I could bend the blades with my hands, and, most commonly, fixed blades and folders that couldn't cut well.

Using my CS Voyager as an example, when I carried it EDC, when people I knew who were trying to cut things with their junk knives I handed them my Voyager. They were always surprised at how well it cut. Most people are used to knives that don't cut well. That is a reason to be careful when allowing one of them to hold a knife, some people test sharpness by running their finger on the edge and don't know how sharp a knife is supposed to be.

 

[Bushman5]

I bought two of Micheal Morris's File neckers, including one that had custom orange wrap and kydex. Many months after that I emailed Micheal and asked if he could send me some business cards, as i had a lot of people asking about the file neckers. Micheal sent me a dozen business, most which i have passed out. Hopefully it generated some sales!

Point is when the public asks about a knife, they are not going to remember 'oh go to bladeforums and into the subforums and check out the makers pictures and stats". Its easier to simply hand them a nice business card and say "here is his contact info and website, check it out when you can".

I also host pics and links to a few knifemakers and sheath makers on my blog. They seem to be getting hits

 

[pitdog]

I find it strange when I hear people say they buy production because they can't afford customs ?

Maybe I was looking at the wrong production knives but, Bark River, TOPS, Fehrman, Swamprat, Busse,Extrema Ratio..........I turned to customs cos they were cheaper !!!

In saying that I'll never be able to afford Charles May's or Randalls etc, LOL !!!

 

[Benjamin Liu]

That depends on what your definition of what custom and production knives are, or what makes a knife semi-custom.

IIRC TOPS, Fehrman, and Busse are made in small shops by a small group of people, how is that different from Randall?

Most people mean knives like CS, Mora, Buck, Gerber, etc. when referring to production knives. I guy who buys a Buck Special (a good knife for the money) at Wal-Mart for under $40.00 and thinks he paid a lot would not likely consider buying a custom for much more, or even consider buying a semi-custom or full-production for $100.00. A flea market/BudK shopper would think the guy with the Buck spent too much.

Then there might be those with flea market junk who think they have customs. I don't watch much TV and don't have cable, but when I was visiting my parents, there was a knife sales show on late at night where these two jerks were selling "custom knives" which were just cheap flea market junk. I don't know how many people bought that junk thinging they were customs, but some probably did.

 

[Shotgun]

Haven't read through all the posts but I'll put in my 2 cents. I don't buy any knives because I can't afford to. There a lot of knife patterns that I really want and a couple that I have in my head but the problem is that there is no way I can afford to buy anymore knives. I bought a Koster some months ago and I gotta say that's going to be about the last one I'll buy for a long time. I was stretching things to order that one. That being said, Christmas is around the corner, you guys offer gift certificates? My family won't go through the rigamaroll of ordering a knife but they'll put some money down on something easy like a gift certificate and then let me do the specifics. Just a thought.

 

[Shotgun]

That depends on what your definition of what custom and production knives are, or what makes a knife semi-custom.

IIRC TOPS, Fehrman, and Busse are made in small shops by a small group of people, how is that different from Randall?

Most people mean knives like CS, Mora, Buck, Gerber, etc. when referring to production knives. I guy who buys a Buck Special (a good knife for the money) at Wal-Mart for under $40.00 and thinks he paid a lot would not likely consider buying a custom for much more, or even consider buying a semi-custom or full-production for $100.00. A flea market/BudK shopper would think the guy with the Buck spent too much.

Then there might be those with flea market junk who think they have customs. I don't watch much TV and don't have cable, but when I was visiting my parents, there was a knife sales show on late at night where these two jerks were selling "custom knives" which were just cheap flea market junk. I don't know how many people bought that junk thinging they were customs, but some probably did.

It's not just them. Companies like Spyderco and Benchmade have knives that are priced at custom knife prices. The only difference is that when you order one of them, you get it within the week and that's not including buying at a store where you get it immediately.

 

[udtjim]

I buy custom knives for a couple of reasons. I got into it looking for knives that were not fancy but tough. Fancy does nothing for me. Most of the first customs that I bought were JK's because as most of you know, Tough is what Johns knives are all about. I have now purchased knives from several more makers here for the second reason that I buy custom knives and use the sharpening trades of several members, That is, to support the makers and sharpening service folk. I have Kokote and more than a few from DPK among others.

Do custom knives cost more than Production knives? Sometimes, BUT I have never failed to get more than my money's worth from any of our great Makers. I hope to get around to getting a few knives from the other Makers here, But times are a bit tough right now.

 

[Skimo]

Some customs do cost too much to replace a production knife. I don't think in field knives that that is a rule.

I also tend to think that with the selection of customs these days, you can get a more versatile knife than most production knives.

ANY knife is stuck with it's geometry, but you'll be hard pressed to find a variable convex grind or a large scandi, or (especially) a decent handle geometry for real world use out of a production in a less expensive price range.

All that said, if you've only got $40, buy Mora

What I meant to say is with 5 production blades I can have a couple fixed blades and a few folders to choose from. While the knives are stuck with shape/geometry I have a choice for which ones to carry.

I'm gonna go ahead and check out some custom prices from the much esteemed brethren of the knife makers guild before I open my mouth again.

I like being able to modify production knives to fit what I want to do, I have to admit the best thing about a custom knife (for me) is the ability to have someone more skilled than myself make what I really want.

Really, from the few knives I've seen here, I thought the prices were higher.