What do you want from the makers ?

[silenthunterstudios]

It's going to be a tough winter. Scott, I hope that you get some more visibility out of your sharpening for local businesses and hunters/fishermen etc. Flyers in Saubels (a local grocery store to Scott and I), Giant, local spots, etc might do the trick for a while. There are lots of businesses that would love to put their sharpening duties on some one else who will do a great job, which Scott does. Also, setting up at gun and knife shows is a pain in the ass, but I think that makers might have to set up at shows, knife shows would probably be the ones worth it. I have not seen regular knife makers do too well at local gun shows, but they have done okay at knife shows. Also, a lot of people are not familiar with the web, even today. That person who has seen Scotts knife, JK's knife or Andy's knife in TK/Blade/KW/KI, might not know how to get to, or even if, their websites exist. I have friends and family that are into knives a great deal, they have no idea that BF, Jerzee Devil, KnifeForums etc exist. Several friends are big knife nuts, and did not know that they have several big makers in their own back yards (central MD, southern PA etc). I really enjoyed Scotts campout last year, and know I will enjoy it again this year.

I am selfish, I want Scott to stick around. I love going to his shop, the man has helped me out a lot. He has taught me a lot. He has not only shared his philosophy of knives with me, he has helped me cultivate my own ideas about them. He has the patience of a saint, but isn't afraid to tell you what he thinks. But, not only for his financial well being, Scott loves to make knives, and I don't want to see him hang up his hat. He is a good guy, cut and dry. I hope that things pick back up for him, Andy and John too. I liked the knives I have gotten from John, and have yet to pick up something from Andy.

My finances aren't where I want them to be, and I only planned on getting a few custom outdoorsy knives next year. I wanted to get a Hudson Bay camp knife next year, but found one by luck at a powwow last month, in a trade. That frees money up for other custom orders. I have absolutely no interest in production fixed blades, but I am extremely lucky at all of the choices before me in custom makers. I keep going back to Scott. I appreciate the rapport we have, and the knives he makes. I don't want to lose that, but I don't want him to lose his passion, making knives.

Have a good one guys!

Oh, btw, I want to see more Kepharts in varying blade lengths, and Hudson Bay camp knives!

 

[Bushman5]

another thing (i know this is a knife forum and we all collect) to add: there is only so many knives i can buy before they start piling up and collecting dust (knife glut) . Before I purged my collection (and am still purging) I could take a different blade every day for 6 months and not see the same one twice, i had a 3 tier cabinet stuffed. So part of it (besides living a bare bone$ existence right now) is one can only have so many knives to use, otherwise they risk becoming shelf queens, and i feel that is the greatest disservice to Knifemakers - not having their knives getting used....... I would rather have less blades and use them more, than a pile of really nice handmade (and yes production classics) blades sitting around.

 

[fishiker]

I am very thankful to the makers here. If it were not for them I would own only one or two custom knives. I don't know how many times I've showed a friend a knife and told him that I didn't know how the maker could sell it for such a good price.
Our household income is about 30% lower than it was last year and the future of my job is very uncertain. It's difficult for me to justify too many "toys" with everything as it is.

 

[koyote]

...
On top of that, the makers have a tough business model to profit off of. It's a niche market, and really the only way to "make it big" is to get noticed and bought out, in some way, shape or form, by a big manufacturer.
....

Yes and no- While the economy is hurting me pretty badly, in general I'm happy to be a niche maker. I think that there's room for plenty of one man and two man shops- it requires a bit of a rethinking, going back to an idea of craftsmanship. This is cultural- and it shifts over time. All we can do is promote the idea of the custom or small shop knife.

 

[Frostyfingers]

Someone may have suggested this already, but I thought it worth a mention anyway.

I don't read a lot of outdoor mags, but do any of the makers advertise in magazines targeted at outdoorsmen? You know, hiking, camping, hunting, fishing, climbing, etc? Seems like a market that would appreciate well-made tools. (although a lot of hunters I know use cheap knives because they can, or because they don't know any better). I don't know, just a thought. I wish I could help out and buy some knives, but like many, I'm broke.

 

[koyote]

I think as far as it goes, frosty- education is more important than business card sized ads in magazines. I want to see American Hunter and Outdoors profile a selection of custom knifemakers and explain WHAT, WHY, and HOW MUCH. People, by and large, just don't know you can get a decent knife at a decent price from a custom maker.

 

[RedbeAR15]

This is a time of transition - in wealth, ideas, life, etc, Those who will be succesful will see which fork to take and will have the faith to persue just that - It will all work out - Keep the faith:thumbup:

 

[jurisprudence]

Nice thread. Guys on this WSS forum are first-rate.

I have picked up a few customs from this site and really have enjoyed them. Also, I have (and others as well) responded to requests for knife suggestions on the general forum by recommending that they consider customs on the makers forum. More people should be aware of the incredible talent of these makers and excellent products that they create.

 

[myright]

My hat is off to the guys that are making knives on this forum. There was a custom knife maker in which I LOVE their knives but the prices have gone through the roof and I can't afford to buy knives from that maker anymore. You guys on this forum keep your prices relatively constant and explain rise in costs.

 

[Calebklyne]

i dont own a custom yet but its really only cause i was very uninformed when first getting into knives, now that i know i can get a great custom for the same price or less than a manufacturer knife i will for sure be putting more thought into my next purchase

 

[ieraseu]

Really what it comes down to is that marketing and advertising is what moves product. I think the quality of the actual products being sold by the custom makers here are absolutely great, but I see very little to no marketing. I say this with a background in marketing and advertising.

Let's use an example of a company that has always excelled in marketing and promotion, Rolex.

When Rolex wanted to market their 'waterproof watch', they first of all gave one to Mercedes Gleitze for her swim across the English Channel. Of course when she succeeded the company got 'free publicity' as she was photographed triumphantly emerging from the water with her Rolex still keeping perfect time. They followed that 'stunt' up by putting water filled aquarium cases in the storefronts of retailers filled with Rolex watches, creating a huge buzz. That is how you market a waterproof watch. Great marketing is why Rolex can sell a watch made out of steel for $5000+ when a Seiko can be had for under $200 and operationally is really not very different.


So basically I think the knife makers here just need to concentrate on their marketing. The designs and quality great, but that alone will not ensure success. That's my take on it.

 

[Karl B. Andersen]

With guys like you around, I think I'll be making knives for as long as I am able.
This is a great thread for EVERYONE to read and I hope that it stays alive a little longer.
I've already forwarded this thread to a few friends of mine.
You give me hope, and I thank you all.

 

[mcjhrobinson]

to the OP, i think every knife ive seen posted in WSS i wanted...cant really think of a bad one. when i first bought knives i bought production just out of ignorance. now everyone i meet who is into knives i tell them about some custom makers. unfortunately ive only been able to purchase one custom (Gossman PSK jr) and its one awesome lil knife.

solutions to this dilemma...

-maybe all us WSS nuts could flood youtube with reviews of all our customs
-once the camp knife challenge is over maybe it could be published in some sort of publication
-word of mouth...tell all your friends or just random people

you knifemakers hang in there!

 

[KBobAries]

Guys. The old movie is over. Focus on using your skills to build what people MUST have.
I won't elaborate, out of respect, and not wanting to make a bunch of big ole country boys mad.
Your tools need to revert to what they were originally made to do..
Talk to ANYONE, in any field, from sleeping bags to cameras, granite countertops, hotrod camshafts.
What it once was will never be again.
The skills are there. Redirect.

I'm not quite sure I understand your point, are you saying that we should let old hand crafted skills such as knifemaking die now that we have CAD machines etc ?

Could you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from. Thanks!

Strictly my inference but I don't think TO was trying to insult anyone. The word that struck me most was "redirect." It seems he's merely suggesting that some might be too specialized in what they're making or are focused on a target population that is too small. The number of forum members is what percentage of the U.S. population?

Many here, myself included, think nothing of spending $100, $200, or more, for an EDC that's meant to be used for any cutting task that arises. Joe Citizen likely sees a $300 knife and thinks "I can buy a complete set of kitchen knives for the same price." Can the knifemaker find a way to educate the public via marketing?

Is a knifemaker offering a blade with ZDP-189, ivory scales, and mosaic pins? Most here would use that without hesitation while the general public would see it as a presentation knife to sit above the fireplace mantle. I'm not suggesting the above should be discontinued but why not offer the same blade in 154CM/Micarta? The overwhelming majority are most likely unaware and, probably, unconcerned with the differences. Ditto for ornate, custom tomahawks. Those will sell here but a plain-jane functional camp axe for a family's once yearly camping trip will sell to a wider consumer base.

Does a knifemaker make only knives? Can other products be added? Take a peek at woodworking forums and see just how much can be spent on high-end chisels and screwdrivers.

So much of our country's manufacturing base has gone overseas that it would be a shame to lose more skilled craftsmen. As people cut back on discretionary spending isn't it in a maker's interest to follow the trend? The steel working skills are there so thought needs to be given on how to use those skills to make necessities.

At the moment my high dollar knives are a Hinderer, Chris Reeve, and Busse. I'd sincerely like all the custom makers to be around when I eventually make it into the true custom world.

FWIW,

Dan

 

[Bushman5]

you knifemakers want advertising?

- truck window decals for us to slap onto our rigs
- hats with your logo and website info
- t shirts " " " " " " "
- velcro patches " " " " "
- sew/iron on patches " " " "
- business cards for us to hand out
- printed coffee mugs

etc


all can be done without cost to you by CAFEPRESS (they do take a % of profit form every sold piece though.

we WS&S'ers can buy the swag, or you can give it away or whathaveyou


your welcome, I will gladly accept a knife for this help & consultation

 

[myright]

you knifemakers want advertising?

- truck window decals for us to slap onto our rigs
- hats with your logo and website info
- t shirts " " " " " " "
- velcro patches " " " " "
- sew/iron on patches " " " "
- business cards for us to hand out
- printed coffee mugs

etc


all can be done without cost to you by CAFEPRESS (they do take a % of profit form every sold piece though.

we WS&S'ers can buy the swag, or you can give it away or whathaveyou


your welcome, I will gladly accept a knife for this help & consultation

:thumbup:

 

[Benjamin Liu]

Many here, myself included, think nothing of spending $100, $200, or more, for an EDC that's meant to be used for any cutting task that arises. Joe Citizen likely sees a $300 knife and thinks "I can buy a complete set of kitchen knives for the same price."

In my experience it is even worse, the average person sees mid-priced production knives like a Spyderco Endura, CS Voyager, Buck Special, or even a Victorinox as "expensive."

I'm sure most of us have heard some variation of, "You paid $50.00 for that? I got one just like it for only $5.00!"

 

[Bushman5]

"one just like it"

 

[udtjim]

The Bud K catalog has a 18 piece kitchen knife set for 9.99. What a buy.

 

[bindlestitch]

you knifemakers want advertising?

- truck window decals for us to slap onto our rigs
- hats with your logo and website info
- t shirts " " " " " " "
- velcro patches " " " " "
- sew/iron on patches " " " "
- business cards for us to hand out
- printed coffee mugs

etc


all can be done without cost to you by CAFEPRESS (they do take a % of profit form every sold piece though.

we WS&S'ers can buy the swag, or you can give it away or whathaveyou


your welcome, I will gladly accept a knife for this help & consultation

Bush,
I've got a cafepress site linked to my regular site and haven't sold a single item since I got it. Of course I don't promote it much but I would still think with as many knives as I sell that I at least sell one or two stickers. Nothing.
I mainly got it so I could print stuff up to give away when I can afford it, for a little advertising.
Just my experience on the matter.
Iz