What do you want in hawk design & materal

Brother Vector , I know you make Composite hawk handles, but after reading the above posts, it looks to me, there's also a big market for custom long wooden hawk handles/hafts in this world and on this blade site.
 
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you can get long hafts from Cold Steel, it's not that hard-you'd have to have someone special make an exhibition grade haft anyway, so...
 
SLOW2RUN said:
For those who want more info on color case-harden finishing ma want to go here, look under www.gunreports.com look under special reports :case Harding with kesenit. www.runniron.com, look under finishes .and www.finishing.com .The old process uses bone ,leather,charcoal, and hawk head all raped in clay for its crucible and fire heat. The art is knowing your fire heat and time, guess who use it first ?
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Note: you can find color case hardening crucibles at www.brownells.com, at $113.99 and and ! lb cans of Kasenit at $11.55 per can, or other brands stuff.
 
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Kentucky said:
I can tell you the reason for mostly 19" hafts...Thats what all the pre-made blanks are :D Anything longer and they have to be hand made one at a time..Or special ordered from a woodworker....Both of which add cost, cost that most folks are already hesitant to pay..
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OR. . .

You can make your eye an oval, the size to fit a Cold Steel haft, and you can then have up to 30" of hickory. Beats that damned teardrop shape.

Like someone else said, if you want exotic wood, you have to pay special for it anyway, so. . .
 
When using the hawk as a knife would you want a serrated edge on part of the front of your hawk, or on part of the front of its spike if your hawk has one ,yes or not at all?

Would you want a brier/vine notch with edge,a new edge or serrated edge on the back of your hawk for garbing vines, this would let you pull back on the hawk haft cutting the vine?

*** Note: Are the above items practical advancement in hawk design? ***
 
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After reading forum post on saws versus hawks, do you think by using the hawk as the frame for a saw blade is practical? This is how it's done, you drill a hole on the haft depending on the length of the saw blade you want to Carrie, and a second hole above the hawk blade edge, then by using two bolts wind nuts and a spacer, you attach the bow saw blade, by using hawk head as the handle,then you saw away when needed in the field.

Note: Is this a advancement in hawk design ?

It looks like brother victor's hawk hafts will all most hold a saw blade ?
 
Cpl Punishment said:
OR. . .

You can make your eye an oval, the size to fit a Cold Steel haft, and you can then have up to 30" of hickory. Beats that damned teardrop shape.

Like someone else said, if you want exotic wood, you have to pay special for it anyway, so. . .
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Thats very true but when you start changing it that much you start to move away from what a "tomahawk" really is. You change the eye shape and lengthen the haft by more than a few inches then its more of a lightweight utility axe than a hawk. Thats all traditionally speaking of course. As long as the user gets what they want and are happy, thats what matters..
 
Historically tomahawks had a wide variety of handle lengths. The longest tended to be Missouri War Axes or similar but it wasn't uncommon to see long handles on other styles of heads.

Typically in frontier days, only the heads would be sold at the trading posts. You'd buy or trade for the head and make your own handle for it. On the frontier both native people and white frontiersmen alike used tomahawks and obtained them usually from the same sources.

How long would your tomahawk handle be if you lived on the american frontier circa 1800?

How long would you like it?


That was the only standard back then.
 
Not really.

I hated the haft my Fort Turner came with, which was a traditional teardrop shape. But I found that the Cold steel hafts were a fairly close fit, and that the traditional haft flares a lot when you get to where the head snugs in place and is very close to the size of the top of the CS haft. FWIW, the eye is just as long on the CS as on the teardrop, just wider in the front where the teardrop takes shape. So I slowly shaved the wood away where the teardrop shape took over until I could get a good, snug fit on the head (snug enough, I pounded it on with a brass sledge). Then, since the haft is WOOD, I just cut it off an inch at a time until I got to the length where gripping it 1/3 of the way from the bottom end balanced right. On this particular one, it came out to 26" I'll post pics when I get the decorations on the haft done.

So, point being, you don't have to have a longer eye to use the CS hafts, and it makes it easier on the maker to be able to order the long haft and cut it until it's right. If a customer wants a tear drop shape, some time on a belt sander will fix that, and give it the traditional taper from head to end.

In this case, you CAN have your cake and eat it, too. :D
 
Wolf_1989 said:
. . .snip. . .

How long would your tomahawk handle be if you lived on the american frontier circa 1800?

How long would you like it?


That was the only standard back then.
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Right. But I think that taking some of brother Vec's advise, and trying to hold it 1/3 of the way up from the bottom, the length will be dictated by the balance point, which is dictated by the weight of the head.

This really changed my view of tomahawks. I used to do the common thing of holding it right near the end, which formed my opinion that hawks were just crappy hatchets, to making them a well-balanced piece of equipment.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Right. But I think that taking some of brother Vec's advise, and trying to hold it 1/3 of the way up from the bottom, the length will be dictated by the balance point, which is dictated by the weight of the head.

This really changed my view of tomahawks. I used to do the common thing of holding it right near the end, which formed my opinion that hawks were just crappy hatchets, to making them a well-balanced piece of equipment.
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Yes indeed. Not only that, but in a pinch that makes it easy to double up on the haft to deliver a more powerful two handed blow. A good bit of length on your tomahawk handle turns it into the 'bastard sword' of battle axes; light enough to be used with one hand but long enough to be used with two hands.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Absolutely! Good point.

Useful for both utility and battle.

:thumbup:
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I invite you to go back to the first page of this thread and look again at my modded Ft Turner to notice two things about the handle:

- note where my burned-in decoration ends
- note the very slight curve I put on the end of the handle

There is a purpose to both. ;)
 
SLOW2RUN said:
After reading forum post on saws versus hawks, do you think by using the hawk as the frame for a saw blade is practical? This is how it's done, you drill a hole on the haft depending on the length of the saw blade you want to Carrie, and a second hole above the hawk blade edge, then by using two bolts wind nuts and a spacer, you attach the bow saw blade, by using hawk head as the handle,then you saw away when needed in the field.

Note: Is this a advancement in hawk design ?

It looks like brother victor's hawk hafts will all most hold a saw blade ?
Click to expand...

Also if you replace the saw blade with a cord ,you now have brace for drill bit and a fire starter .
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Not really.

I hated the haft my Fort Turner came with, which was a traditional teardrop shape. But I found that the Cold steel hafts were a fairly close fit, and that the traditional haft flares a lot when you get to where the head snugs in place and is very close to the size of the top of the CS haft. FWIW, the eye is just as long on the CS as on the teardrop, just wider in the front where the teardrop takes shape. So I slowly shaved the wood away where the teardrop shape took over until I could get a good, snug fit on the head (snug enough, I pounded it on with a brass sledge). Then, since the haft is WOOD, I just cut it off an inch at a time until I got to the length where gripping it 1/3 of the way from the bottom end balanced right. On this particular one, it came out to 26" I'll post pics when I get the decorations on the haft done.

So, point being, you don't have to have a longer eye to use the CS hafts, and it makes it easier on the maker to be able to order the long haft and cut it until it's right. If a customer wants a tear drop shape, some time on a belt sander will fix that, and give it the traditional taper from head to end.

In this case, you CAN have your cake and eat it, too. :D
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I think we would all love to see the picture of your hawk and its haft.
 
PRACTICAL TOMAHAWLS ***.Will the posters give their opinion on what a Tactical hawk & haft should look like or have?***

***Will the posters give their opinion on what a utility & fun hawk with haft should look like or have?***


NOTE: By using your own experience with Tomahawks, will you Describe by words, picture or drawing the best you can, on what is Practical?
Your experience will help others pick the best designs ,and tell forges , manufactures and haft makers what you want in your hawk.
 
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Of all the modern 'tactical' tomahawks, the ones I like the most are the ones made by RMJ Forge. There's only two items on them I don't like:

- I'd prefer to not have a sharpened edge under the beard

- I require a handle with a minimum length of 21"

If they made one which is long enough and doesn't have a sharpened beard, I'd buy it.


Practicality to me is pure minimalist functionality. No exotic handle shapes. No funky blade shapes. The main reason I prefer a traditional tomahawk is it's just that. The 'old school' tomahawks were the survival tool/weapon of the american/canadian frontier for over two centuries because they worked, and they worked well.

Again, my large Ft Turner Iroquois is as close to being my ideal tomahawk as I've found.
 
I'd like 30-36 inch composite handles, stiff. The head eye to be teardrop or egg shaped. The entire head to be 5160 or near equivalent (medium carbon spring steel), wieghts from 10 to 20 oz, cutting edge 3 inches or better, both hammer polls and spike hawk heads. For tactical spike head a regular utilitarian spike model and a CQC model. The CQC model spike should be Shirasaya shape with underside sharpened (think 90 degree triangle with top line even with top line of primary blade for larger thrusting and parying surface and if it does get stuck will have easier withdrawl, pretty much like the ECO hawk by Vec). Have attachment point on top of hawk shaft for spike. The tactical poll should have a smaller striking surface for more PSI and another wider tactical poll head for those who wish for that. The utilitarian hawks/fun hawks well there's plenty out there. I want the options for different wieghted heads for the same size composite shaft. Oh yeah these 30-36 inch hafts must be about as light as wood but definitely stronger and more resistant to the elements. Again, three inch or better blade, 5160, tear drop or egg shaped eye, various weights to choose from. Come to think of it, there's plenty of hawk heads out there to find what anyone could want and plenty of makers willing to do custom work for exactly what you want. As far as what a manufacturer could genuinely offer, well composite synthetic long hawk handles close to handling like wood (so it won't throw you off if you must replace with wood in a pinch) for less than 50 bucks. I really don't think that's possible though. I know Vec found a way to get the handles made the way I'd want, but I know they can't be produced for anywhere near 50 bucks. Hey, I've got it! We need to find a manufacturer that can work with Vec to set him up (with the tools and income or just a boat load of cash) so we can get Vec hawk handles for 50 bucks. Hell even twice that would be a big improvement, especially considering they already look to be well worth the money as is. Yeah, for me the hawk industry's biggest lack right now is affordable, long, composite handles.
 
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