What does the blade steel actually cost?

Think of it like a wristwatch, an $8 Walmart house branded import watch will tell you the time and probably be pretty accurate maybe even waterproof. That cheap watch might even be stylish and comfortable but how does it compare to a TAG Heuer or even a Rolex? They tell time and could even be less accurate than the Walmart watch (unlikely but absolutely possible) are the people that buy those brands being played or are they wanting something more from the watch? The materials are more expensive and the manufacturing is more costly the man hours are much higher all of this comes into play. As well as buyer expectations, if you buy a "super steel" you expect more and rightfully so, the manufacturer has to up their game on tolerances and finishes as well.
 
Beelzebubba said:
I'm trying to find comparative knife steel prices, like for pieces of 6"x2"x1/8" of every type of steel.
I keep hearing that the type of steel can make big $ difference. Show me how much a blade sized piece actually costs! I can't find that one anywhere.
Yeah, I know that machineability and such has to be factored in, but I'm talking bare essentials. An extra ten minutes machining shouldn't cost that much...
All I hear is why I should spend more, always more, and I suspect that we are being played!
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I don't think you're thinking everything through, but how could you, if you aren't a knife maker yourself. Ignorance isn't a bad thing, but assumption based on it is. There's wear and tear on equipment, which must be accounted for, as well as the greater degree of that based on tougher steels of course. The cost of the product alone is only one aspect of a cost difference. There's also higher degree of difficulty doing heat treats that must be considered, as well as many other things I couldn't even think of. Why on earth do you think it's only 10 minutes of grind time difference? There's no way you honestly think that. Don't forget about research and development time and materials that go into working with new steels, etc. Upgrading tools perhaps as well.

That all said I will agree that there is a degree of market value at play. Of course there is, that's how the economy works. That doesn't mean anyone is getting "played". That's an absurd analysis of the situation utterly lacking in any research necessary to come to a competent conclusion. As with most things a multi-varied analysis must be done to draw any conclusion worthy of being stated.
 
thebrain said:
Think of it like a wristwatch, an $8 Walmart house branded import watch will tell you the time and probably be pretty accurate maybe even waterproof. That cheap watch might even be stylish and comfortable but how does it compare to a TAG Heuer or even a Rolex? They tell time and could even be less accurate than the Walmart watch (unlikely but absolutely possible) are the people that buy those brands being played or are they wanting something more from the watch? The materials are more expensive and the manufacturing is more costly the man hours are much higher all of this comes into play. As well as buyer expectations, if you buy a "super steel" you expect more and rightfully so, the manufacturer has to up their game on tolerances and finishes as well.
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So what happens when the cheaper Chinese options are straight up better, using the same or better materials, better/tighter tolerances, better construction and in many cases better designs?
 
Beelzebubba said:
I'm trying to find comparative knife steel prices, like for pieces of 6"x2"x1/8" of every type of steel.
I keep hearing that the type of steel can make big $ difference. Show me how much a blade sized piece actually costs! I can't find that one anywhere.
Yeah, I know that machineability and such has to be factored in, but I'm talking bare essentials. An extra ten minutes machining shouldn't cost that much...
All I hear is why I should spend more, always more, and I suspect that we are being played!
Click to expand...
One thing that may be true here is that higher-end steels are marked up more than lower-end ones when made into products. Apple does the same thing with memory—each added level of memory costs a lot more than the memory itself would. Why? Because if you care about more memory, you’ll pay it. That’s what makes it a premium model—you’re willing to pay the premium. And it’s proportionately more profit per item. The other costs are basically the same (factory, people, etc.) with a higher-end model. You get a little more extra than you would have as the manufacturer.

But it’s an illusion to look only at the higher end--it’s about the whole company staying in business and making money. It’s easy to say it shouldn’t be that way, but the low end would also have to cost more if the high end was cheaper, and then you’d sell fewer at the low end and maybe everyone would forget you existed, or maybe high-end sales are spotty, so the lights go out one day while you’re waiting. You’re probably nearly breaking even on the cheap stuff, and the premium is where any hope of making actual money comes in. It’s tight. Just pointing out that it’s extremely complicated and these companies are thinking about it in excruciating detail, and honestly, if you can do it better, we’ll all be thrilled, but I guarantee you it’s not easy or it would have been done already.
 
Besides the pay, Chinese labor will probably be working more than an 8 hr day/40 hr week too.
 
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DMG said:
We may never know.
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Actually I think we've already gotten there. I can't tell you how many times I've got a benchmade that had terrible tolerance, horrible blade play, and sticky pivots. We're talking $200+ knives there, vs a WE or TwoSun for $50-200 that is like butter and perfectly balanced with zero blade play and perfect alignment. I won't include the junk brands like Eafengrow which seem nice at first but fall apart within a few months, those are just trash. But a decent Chinese manufacturer with good QC like the aforementioned... yeah, sorry, but We're already there.
 
JayDeep said:
Actually I think we've already gotten there. I can't tell you how many times I've got a benchmade that had terrible tolerance, horrible blade play, and sticky pivots. We're talking $200+ knives there, vs a WE or TwoSun for $50-200 that is like butter and perfectly balanced with zero blade play and perfect alignment. I won't include the junk brands like Eafengrow which seem nice at first but fall apart within a few months, those are just trash. But a decent Chinese manufacturer with good QC like the aforementioned... yeah, sorry, but We're already there.
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Winner winner chicken dinner. Exactly my point.
 
Wild Willie said:
I deal with the same shenanigans in tree care. People see that it takes me x hours to do a 2000 dollar removal and think it's all profit. Forget about fuel, equipment wear (not just power equipment, ropes are expensive and they need to be replaced frequently), liability insurance, vehicle insurance, and a medley of other crap that comes into play. Drives me nuts when I shoot someone a price and they're like "What if I pay you cash?".
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My old man owned a tree business and I was raised up doing it. I know first hand how expensive all the equipment is and how much it was when it broke. It was always something with the stump or brush grinder and saw chains and bar etc etc. I own my own hvac business and I get hit with the what if I pay in cash crap all the time as well. People think they're slick ! But that's a tough job you've got.
 
Regarding Chinese companies with tighter tolerances and equal quality materials, I see many try to avoid mainland china manufacturers for different reasons. Others that have been paying attention to some of the Chinese companies making very nice knives started at very affordable prices a few years ago but sadly they are quickly catching up to America companies.
 
Hvactech said:
My old man owned a tree business and I was raised up doing it. I know first hand how expensive all the equipment is and how much it was when it broke. It was always something with the stump or brush grinder and saw chains and bar etc etc. I own my own hvac business and I get hit with the what if I pay in cash crap all the time as well. People think they're slick ! But that's a tough job you've got.
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HVAC can't exactly be an easy gig either... I give you credit for crawling around the tight places. I'll climb just about anything, but you can keep that tunnel ratting around people's basements and attics. 😬
 
Wild Willie said:
HVAC can't exactly be an easy gig either... I give you credit for crawling around the tight places. I'll climb just about anything, but you can keep that tunnel ratting around people's basements and attics. 😬
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Lol yeah I went into hvac right out of high school figuring it would be an easy gig compared to tree work. You're correct I've worked my butt off my whole career. Put in many 70 plus hour weeks lol.
 
thebrain said:
Think of it like a wristwatch, an $8 Walmart house branded import watch will tell you the time and probably be pretty accurate maybe even waterproof. That cheap watch might even be stylish and comfortable but how does it compare to a TAG Heuer or even a Rolex? They tell time and could even be less accurate than the Walmart watch (unlikely but absolutely possible) are the people that buy those brands being played or are they wanting something more from the watch? The materials are more expensive and the manufacturing is more costly the man hours are much higher all of this comes into play. As well as buyer expectations, if you buy a "super steel" you expect more and rightfully so, the manufacturer has to up their game on tolerances and finishes as well.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about the watch analogy as well, but I don't think it's a very good one.

Rolex et al. are called luxury  brands not luxury  products for good reasons I think: They spend  insane amounts of money on sponsoring and advertisement. This leads to item prices that are wholly disconnected from any reasonable product worthpoint. At least the knife industry hasn't gone down that rabbit hole.
 
TC said:
I was thinking about the watch analogy as well, but I don't think it's a very good one.

Rolex et al. are called luxury  brands not luxury  products for good reasons I think: They spend  insane amounts of money on sponsoring and advertisement. This leads to item prices that are wholly disconnected from any reasonable product worthpoint. At least the knife industry hasn't gone down that rabbit hole.
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Lmfaoooo, surely you jest… It hasn’t? What should we tell the Rockstead guys (and many, MANY others)
 
I mean, I'm working on a screw knife for Cowboy Action Shooting today.

It's taken me a couple of hours of grinding and sanding to get it to a point where it's polished, blued, and ready for a handle. It'll be another couple of hours of handle making I suppose, then sheath making...

I'm a contractor, I know what I charge hourly. I couldn't ask anyone to pay the amount of money commensurate to the time I have in the knife, despite the steel costing me $5.00 or so (1080 from New Jersey Steel Baron).
 
AntDog said:
Lmfaoooo, surely you jest… It hasn’t? What should we tell the Rockstead guys (and many, MANY others)
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I'm not saying there aren't very expensive luxury knives out there. But I've never seen a knife brand sponsoring a Formula 1 team, offshore racing, or tennis turnaments, on top of heavily advertising in any sort of print, broadcast, and digital media on a global basis, like e.g. Rolex does. Those hundreds of millions have to come from somewhere - that's right, the folks who buy Rolex watches.

PS: I don't begrudge - or envy - anyone buying a Rolex or a Rockstead for that matter (beautiful knives IMO). Have at it is my motto, as long as it doesn't impinge on me directly.
 
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I love my Hinderers. Like really love them. But there is some obvious pricing wackiness to be in the Hinderer ecosystem. Honestly the knife prices aren’t too awful bad. It’s the “pocket jewelry” barbie accessories we buy for them. $200 for a single Ti scale. $60 for a bent Ti pocket clip, $100 for a Micarta scale. And then the hardware, individually and as a complete set, oh my. And then throw in it might be a year or more before a small production run is made to restock any of the above. I think Rick has completely abandoned selling filler tabs a la carte.

It’s not hard to have a $450 XM-18 or $600 XM-24 turn into a $1,000 knife, just from accessorizing, lol And many of us have 10+ of these things.

I know that those prices are all factored in to Rick’s ability to buy another giant couple of $2.5M cutting machines (and the brains to run them) or what have you to hopefully make a more efficient process that may equate to higher volume. Or fund the R & D for the next Project X or whatever.

Gotta pay to play. Just like firearms, cars etc.
 
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