What does the blade steel actually cost?

Beelzebubba said:
I'm trying to find comparative knife steel prices, like for pieces of 6"x2"x1/8" of every type of steel.
I keep hearing that the type of steel can make big $ difference. Show me how much a blade sized piece actually costs! I can't find that one anywhere.
Yeah, I know that machineability and such has to be factored in, but I'm talking bare essentials. An extra ten minutes machining shouldn't cost that much...
All I hear is why should spend more, always more, and I suspect that we are being played!
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OK , 8 inch long hunting knife from 52100 steel and walnut scales would cost me to make it about 15 $ and three hours work . How much should I sell that knife I ask you ?
 
Your wife would never ask if the leather choosen for her Louis Vuitton hand-bag contributed to the price. That’s because she knows that LV uses Luxury-good Pricing, where price is only very remotely related to costs.

If you have more than a couple of pocket knives, they are luxury goods for you, too. Many small makers here have negative margin, some manufacturers work cost based, and some ask whatever the market can take, independent of cost.

Part of the hobby, looking at the maker’s cost is a silly way to rationalize our purchases, in my opinion :)
 
Someone's car broke down on the highway. He called the emergency services and they took him to the car service. The mechanic came out, looked under the hood in the engine, took a small hammer and hit somewhere with the hammer. The car started... How much does it cost ? 507 dollars! What are that seven dollars for? For hitting with a hammer ! WHAT???????? And for what are 500 ??????? They are because I knew where to hit with the hammer you stupid idiot !
This is joke I tell to my customer / I run car service / when they complain about money that I charge them !
 
Natlek said:
Someone's car broke down on the highway. He called the emergency services and they took him to the car service. The mechanic came out, looked under the hood in the engine, took a small hammer and hit somewhere with the hammer. The car started... How much does it cost ? 507 dollars! What are that seven dollars for? For hitting with a hammer ! WHAT???????? And for what are 500 ??????? They are because I knew where to hit with the hammer you stupid idiot !
This is joke I tell to my customer / I run car service / when they complain about money that I charge them !
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I run into that a lot. People dont seem to appreciate that they are calling professionals because we have knowledge and skills that they dont. Expertise is a cost to the consumer, and it should be.

Minimum service call for what we do is $100 + parts for the first hour and then a prorated amount per half hour there after. That job could take my guys 59 minutes or 5 minutes. $100 is what I need to budget in order to make sure I can pay two guys in a van a living wage with health insurance and still keep the lights on.

I will say, I'm very upfront with people. If it's a $10 part and can be changed out with a screwdriver, I show them exactly what they need to do when they come into the shop. I'm not in the business to fleece people. I just have to cover my costs. Usually when I show folks how to fix the issue themselves they either go, "ehhhhh. I still want you to do it." Or they appreciate the honesty and make sure to call me when something IS over their heads.

After the last two+ years I have come to terms with 2 things: I'm not doing my job for free unless I feel charitable (certainly not because someone FEELS the work is too expensive). I'm also not putting customer needs over my family or time with my family. Life is short, and the reason for my existence is not to make life easier for people who grumble about paying me money or what I am WORTH.
 
KVT said:
I love my Hinderers. Like really love them. But there is some obvious pricing wackiness to be in the Hinderer ecosystem. Honestly the knife prices aren’t too awful bad. It’s the “pocket jewelry” barbie accessories we buy for them. $200 for a single Ti scale. $60 for a bent Ti pocket clip, $100 for a Micarta scale. And then the hardware, individually and as a complete set, oh my. And then throw in it might be a year or more before a small production run is made to restock any of the above. I think Rick has completely abandoned selling filler tabs a la carte.

It’s not hard to have a $450 XM-18 or $600 XM-24 turn into a $1,000 knife, just from accessorizing, lol And many of us have 10+ of these things.

I know that those prices are all factored in to Rick’s ability to buy another giant couple of $2.5M cutting machines (and the brains to run them) or what have you to hopefully make a more efficient process that may equate to higher volume. Or fund the R & D for the next Project X or whatever.

Gotta pay to play. Just like firearms, cars etc.
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That's because Rick doesn't sell knives he sells accessories.
 
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Hvactech said:
My old man owned a tree business and I was raised up doing it. I know first hand how expensive all the equipment is and how much it was when it broke. It was always something with the stump or brush grinder and saw chains and bar etc etc. I own my own hvac business and I get hit with the what if I pay in cash crap all the time as well. People think they're slick ! But that's a tough job you've got.
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Off topic, but wouldn't accepting cash mean you (meaning the business owner) would avoid paying a processing fee to the credit card company? I've noticed several restaurants have started putting in the fine print on the bill, that they are charging 2.5% more if you aren't paying cash.
 
Reswob said:
Off topic, but wouldn't accepting cash mean you (meaning the business owner) would avoid paying a processing fee to the credit card company? I've noticed several restaurants have started putting in the fine print on the bill, that they are charging 2.5% more if you aren't paying cash.
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People also have this grand illusion that contractors don't have to report cash payments. I like getting a wad of 100s as much as the next guy, but it's pretty obvious to the government that your bills don't get paid with nothing...
 
New thread titles, take your pick, please feel free to use them....

What does design time actually cost-
What does man hours actually cost -
What does workshop space actually cost-
What does workshop rental actually cost-
What does social security/ medical care actually cost-
What does accountants/ book keepers /office staff actually cost-
What does electricity, gas, charcoal actually cost-
What does workshop machinery actually cost-
What do workshop consumables actually cost-
What do problems out of your control actually cost-
What do unreliable suppliers actually cost-
What do customers who change their mind after placing an order actually cost-
What do customers who cancel after placing an order actually cost-

Oh yeah, material cost...... that's fairly minor in comparison to the above......

Please feel free to add to the "What does......... actually cost" list.

😀
 
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I can tell you that a knife made from S90V/S110V is likely to cost significantly more than one made from 1084 in the same pattern, given similiar handle, guard, etc. It's not just the cost of the raw steel bar, but also the cost of tools and consumables such as sand paper, belts, bits, etc. Add to that the additional cost for Heat Treat at some shops, and this translates to higher production cost = higher cost overall.
 
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Wild Willie said:
People also have this grand illusion that contractors don't have to report cash payments. I like getting a wad of 100s as much as the next guy, but it's pretty obvious to the government that your bills don't get paid with nothing...
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Your comment isn't even remotely related to my question
 
Reswob said:
Your comment isn't even remotely related to my question
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Yes it does save the additional charges with a credit card, but the primary reason people want to pay cash is because they think you'll give them a discount on sales tax because you "don't have to report it"

I was giving you the actual reason that cash is offered. People don't care about 2.5 percent for the convenience of running a credit card. So yes, it was related to the question...

Edited to add: At least in the context of the cash conversation that Hvactech and I were engaging in.
 
Back to the watch analogy, Benchmade has been close to doing the big time sponsorship thing, as well as putting print advertising in non knife related magazines and whatnot. I do see the idea that Rolex is a luxury brand but Tag heuer is more alike to a knife company like William Henry, there really isn't at knife brand like Rolex yet....
 
Reswob said:
Off topic, but wouldn't accepting cash mean you (meaning the business owner) would avoid paying a processing fee to the credit card company? I've noticed several restaurants have started putting in the fine print on the bill, that they are charging 2.5% more if you aren't paying cash.
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Yep my invoicing software I use automatically figures it into my bill anyways when paying with a card. So it does automatically save the customer some. I think a lot of them think they don't have to pay tax if paying with cash
 
Earlier this year I had the chance to acquire two bars of old rare titanium alloy suitable for swords, from a cache overseas.

The bars were only $125 each, so $250 for the two bars. These are irreplaceable relics of a bygone era, at least 40 years old, and I paid much less than they're probably worth.

Shipping was about $450, so now we're at $700.

The bars had to be cut lengthwise, with a distal taper. Waterjet service for this was $325, not including driving there and back ($50 and half a day).

Total cost to have the two bars in hand ready to forge: $1075.

Hand-forging time for one bar: One day.

After several grinding sessions, and obliterating $150 (shipped) worth of ceramic grinding belts, I have one sword billet that's not even ready to be heat treated yet (and one raw blank that's yet to feel the unstoppable force of my hammer). It will take another $150 in belts to get it to the heat treatment point, before grinding and hand-shaping some more.

The two bars only cost a mere $125 each, but it will be like $2000 before even one of them is turned into a finished blade, not even hilted, and not counting the hours of work it took, or the cost of the tools needed to do it. It's ridiculous and I must be mad and/or stupid. BRB going to KMS. 🤣

Just an example of how quickly the costs of making stuff can spiral out of control waaaaay beyond the price of the raw material.

EDIT: Oh ya I forgot: also had to spend an entire day driving to use someone's hydraulic forging press on the one billet also, before hand-forging. It's insane.

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The last client who asked me, "Why does it cost so much?", may still be talking in her hallway, because that's where I left her when I walked away. I'll give these Arschgeigen a bid that is less than the cost of their purse, or watch, or whatever-the-f*** and they think I should offer them some kind of discount. For that, we have a saying in the old country, "WAAAAAHHH!!"

So why do these knives cost so much? If they're taking advantage of people's willingness to pay, I don't blame them. I would have charged more, if my clients would have paid it.
 
As others have said, it's less about the cost of the raw steel, and more the cost in both finishing and the wear on the tools required to finish it.

I generally am not into the higher end knives, as I feel many of them are overpriced for what they are, and/or the designs don't appeal to me. I'll probably never buy another titanium framelock for example.

The two $400+ knives I own are rather uncommon and unique, especially the Biryukov #12.

I'm not sure if it's considered a custom or midtech but regardless:

Made in small batches
Impeccable fit and finish
3.8" CPM-S125V with a unique finish
I've heard that 125v is difficult to work with, I'm sure that adds to cost
Titanium frame with CF overlays
Unique hardware
Great front flipper action
Imported from Russia, and goods from there are becoming scarce.

For the above, yes it was worth the price. My Cheburkov was also worth the price, for many of the same reasons.

I put a high priority on uniqueness, as well as fidget factor. While I appreciate that many companies are now offering models with handles made from other than G10 and FRN, everything is starting to blend together into being difficult to discern if not for the logos.

The Russian knives speak to me more, but alas I lack the funds to buy another. I'm on the fence about the AB iMamba, but it is a consideration for when things are a bit more stable.

As new "super" steels continue yo be released (and demanded) makers also may have to retool. I remember years ago a buddy of mine in the auto collision business telling me it was costing him a fortune to buy new tools when the Smart car came out. Apparently it's proprietary Tridion steel frame contained boron, making it very difficult to both cut and weld.
 
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