What Genre of knives is on its way up.....and what's on its way down ? :)

Don Hanson III said:
So, ABS style declining & Tactical style on the increase? If this is the case, it's not really 'new' news.

Spill the beans Joe...
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All I can say is that if your client base has predominately blue hair your client base is dying :)

Just like the muscle car market these newer buyers did not grow up lusting after American muscle

Anyone that attends a cars and coffee sees that it is a younger market into exotics and tuner cars not classics

If you are making knives that look like a cowboy would wear them....again your audience is dying

The notion that young buyers will mature into liking cowboy style knives is absurd

Regretfully this is the bulk of my collection :)

I get a lot of young successful new collectors that come around to look at knives and the last thing they are interested in is my ABS style cowboy style knives

Now show them something that looks like it could be used to sleigh zombies or orcs and they dig it

Again to think this group would mature to like an ivory handled engraved Bowie knife is absurd

I was very big into the international hunting scene and this gives me a bit more insight into animal related prouducts

This year I had a few African friends here to visit and Elephant hunting is over ...lion hunting is over ..... Hippo hunting is ending and leopard and the remaining species is under big scrutiny

Regretfully Ivory is dead ....literally

In the next decade it will not be tolerated

The uneducated masses have spoken and it is what it is

Now I know some will say this is nonsense

My orders are up and ivory is in demand

My question is who is making these orders and will they be around to continue to make these orders ?

Yes tactical stuff is up and holding and I see attention going from huge bulky folders to more practical folders in terms of weight and size

Ask Coop what he is primarily getting for work these days

This will be the defining answer

Buddy in his recent post alluded to what is becoming a soft market

I've been saying for years that makers need to pander to the Patsy's and cultivate a new custom buying market

The ABS is tumbleweeds just like the Guild

For both to grow the collectors interest out there they need to ask what they want not what they want to make

Ask the younger hotter ABS style makers what they are getting orders for

It's not what it used to be

Yes some makers can keep doing what they want and make pieces for a dying part of the market but that won't last forever .... Nothing does

Just like today's young car collectors are buying vintage M3's and air cooled 911's (classics to them) today's knife collectors are buying not what their grandfathers and dads wanted
 
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Kevin Jones said:
Hey Joe, you make a good point as sometimes I believe we (myself included) get caught up in thinking we are the custom knife community when we are only a cog on a big wheel.
I find there's many collectors who don't frequent forums.
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I agree Kevin

Blade forums is a small pool in a big ocean

But the big shows speak for who and what is happening along with Instagram etc
 
Very insightful, Joe. Thank you!

I think only about half my client base has blue hair. So maybe it'll be OK...
 
Don Hanson III said:
Very insightful, Joe. Thank you!

I think only about half my client base has blue hair. So maybe it'll be OK...
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Don you are a special maker that has a style and talent that stands alone '

You will never be looking for customers but you are one in a million

Your knives have always stepped away from the norm in design and character

If you were giving advice to a new maker what would you tell him to make ?

I will ask you this

Total ivory bands are coming in the next decade

Than what will happen to all the Ivory handled knives ?

I just signed on for an Ivory handled knife from Sam

Why ?

Because he is my friend and I will never ever sell it

But I would never buy an Ivory handled knife these days if I even thought of possibly moving it on some day
 
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JParanee said:
I would never buy an Ivory handled knife these days if I even thought of possibly moving it on some day
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Truth.

Excellent conversation. Watching the For Sale Forums here it's interesting to see the market shift from that perspective.

This is an exceptionally good thread for new and upcoming makers.
 
I couldn't agree more about ivory. This "mammoth" thing is like an albatross around my neck, I have until July 1 (yes, in California, mammoth has become unsaleable after that date) to get it removed! But if ivory is attached to a knife, I'll keep it.

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betzner said:
I couldn't agree more about ivory. This "mammoth" thing is like an albatross around my neck, I have until July 1 to get it removed! But if ivory is attached to a knife, I'll keep it.

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That is beautiful and I'm sorry
 
JParanee said:
Don you are a special maker that has a style and talent that stands alone '

You will never be looking for customers but you are one in a million

Your knives have always stepped away from the norm in design and character

If you were giving advice to a new maker what would you tell him to make ?

I will ask you this

Total ivory bands are coming in the next decade

Than what will happen to all the Ivory handled knives ?

I just signed on for an Ivory handled knife from Sam

Why ?

Because he is my friend and I will never ever sell it

But I would never buy an Ivory handled knife these days if I even thought of possibly moving it on some day
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Joe you're too kind. I just make what I know I can sell, to keep food on the table.

My advise to a new maker would be to make unique stuff and price it to sell.
If it doesn't sell make something different. And follow no one.

I will always use fossil ivory. I am still aggressively buying it and demand for my stuff with fossil ivory has not decreased at all.

Good thread, my friend!!!
 
The knife market is in a state of flux and fluidity.

I go to a fair amount of knife shows....TKI, AKI, Blade, Plaza, this year, going to Solvang.

Folding knives are definitely outselling fixed blades at the shows....by a wide margin.

To speak to what Joe is talking about....The Buck 110 is still one of the most popular folding knives available on the retail market to the general population.(how Buck makes a profit on a U.S made knife that has wood handles and about 4 oz of brass, sells for around $50.00 with a leather sheath included and comes with a limited lifetime warranty confounds me, I mean seriously, how do they do it??)

But when you are talking to knife collector/users, there are probably a lot more youngsters saving money to buy a ZT knife designed by Emerson, Hinderer or Sinkevich as a beginning knife and looking towards purchasing a Chris Reeve Sebenza. They quite often don't even consider the Buck knife.

The cult of personality continues to be a, if not THE dominant factor with this group of buyers. They want to get to know the makers like Emerson, who is truly treated like a rock star at shows and carries a battery powered, diamond tipped rotary grinder to autograph knives for people.....and he uses the heck out of it! For some of these collectors, it is ALL about aesthetics, as they are interested in only three things.....1)Who made it....2)How it looks.....3)How much will it sell for on the aftermarket. Use is not even a consideration, and along with that, ergonomics become unimportant.

Tactical knives are not currently a guaranteed hot ticket. The young collectors that came into the market because of the aftermarket profitability are slowly leaving because the "flip" is not a sure thing anymore, and the ones that are playing the game with scared money cannot afford to sit on cold product or make mistakes, and one thing custom knives have always experienced is tough going without a healthy reservoir of knowledge. You can't "think" you know what's up, you have to KNOW what's up.

The makers who have a good product at a reasonable price are doing ok. The top tier makers are doing fabulous....but the makers in between are looking at the future with uncertainty.

There are small boutique shops that create fixed blades that are doing well....not a "hot ticket" by any stretch, but slow and steady.

As an example, Southern Grind was making one model of fixed blade knife for a period of time and doing ok, but the introduction of their "Bad Monkey" folding knife made as much of a difference in sales as the Sebenza did for Chris Reeve Knives, and CRK NO LONGER produces the one-piece fixed blade knives that they became famous for.

I truly don't know what is going to happen with certain materials as far as legality/availability goes. Fossil ivories have never been my thing, and thusly I don't pay much attention to it. It's highly likely that a large portion of the knife buying public will reject a knife that has ANY ivory on it for practical reasons as well as emotional reasons that have nothing to do with logic. The reason I don't like any ivory is that it is subject to more shrinking/swelling in the SoCal environment than most other materials, and I prefer Mother of Pearls for stability and aesthetics...and stag for durability.

Everyone knows how I feel about the ABS, and their silence as an organization concerning the plight of the DesRosiers while unsurprising, is shameful and embarrassing. It does not reflect the true spirit of goodness and positivity that the knife community represents.

The makers who have not evolved stylistically, those who still use the "same ol'" materials are likely to have a very, very hard ability to make full time knifemaking viable in the very near future...the writing is on the wall.....looking to new markets like China or Russia is risky and adding loss through shipping as a factor is not an element that some of the more shrewd makers I know are willing to chance.

So, in answer to the question:

Large Forged Bowies in monosteel(without hamon) and ivory handles/stag carvers are very slow right now...would have to say that if you are successful selling drop-point hunters, you are likely one of the most lucky makers in the world.

Tactical knives are slowing for the middle group of makers, those who have been at it a while and who's prices reflect it. The "Mid-Tech" approach for some of these makers is dead in the water.

Kitchen knives are doing very well, not seeing any slowdown in this sector.

Great post, Joe.....looking forward to more discussion!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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Don Hanson III said:
Joe you're too kind. I just make what I know I can sell, to keep food on the table.

My advise to a new maker would be to make unique stuff and price it to sell.
If it doesn't sell make something different. And follow no one.

I will always use fossil ivory. I am still aggressively buying it and demand for my stuff with fossil ivory has not decreased at all.

Good thread, my friend!!!
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Don you are at the top of your trade and there is a reason why ...... You are awesome :)

This year at blade I need to finally make an order from you but I need you to make the handle out of Ivory micarta :)
 
Ah, I see an ivory micarta Scary Tac folder on Don's 'Upscale Tactical Knives" page on his website.........
 
I hear my name?

JParanee said:
Anyone that attends a cars and coffee sees that it is a younger market into exotics and tuner cars not classics
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Sigh.... It's SO true, and I'm especially frustrated. I'm one a a few volunteer principals for a 'Classic Car Show' in honor of my 98yr-old Grandfather-in-Law, and they don't want any part of the newer cars, UNLESS they are $200,000 exotica. "It's a classic car event...." And it's falling short of attendees louder than a boring resto 1968 Camaro with a bearded Baby Boomer in a beach chair grousing about the new loud-ass 'imports'. :foot:

The principals are all older school and aren't actively recruiting for fresh new growth. Sound familiar? :rolleyes:

Yes tactical stuff is up and holding and I see attention going from huge bulky folders to more practical folders in terms of weight and size.

Ask Coop what he is primarily getting for work these days

This will be the defining answer
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Well, not defining, but it sure may be revealing.....

My studio work from makers has declined in 2015 and onward, however I get a substantial amount of custom work from certain dealers. The types of knives have changed in the last few years.

What is being delivered to me is about 60% tactical, and what are actually selling are the advanced 'dress tactical' upscale folders. (Caleb is now the go-to guy for the ABS market and he has done a great job of promoting/showing them off here and on IG. Only wish he'd come out of his shell.)

Art folders also are still alive. Not the rage, but people with experienced eyes will always appreciate pleasing curves and lines and precision, and not be so smitten by the aura of the 'hard usages' and 'rockstar' personas in their purchases.

Just like today's young car collectors are buying vintage M3's and air cooled 911's (classics to them) today's knife collectors are buying not what their grandfathers and dads wanted
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My son wants no part of what music I listen to, no matter if Skrillex isn't as musically academic as Blood Sweat & Tears. Every parental generation has decried the music of their kids.

Every generation of Custom/Handmade knife collectors changes. We probably only have three generations: 70s-80's, 90's-2000's, 2010's and growing. We are witnessing a new birth which began about six years ago, and is growing like Baby Boomers right now.

CNC and/or consistent patterns have become ubiquitous for many: Both in the repeatability for the maker and the customizability of the designs. That's a LOT of investment, too, but it's like me trying to make a profit with a film camera instead of digital.

Instagram (and Facebook) have outpaced forums as the show and tell center for our world.

Especially Instagram: Easy to load, it's basically a one way VISUAL conversation, and far less drama. No wonder why it is growing so fast. (I have a Facebook account both for my SharpByCoop Photography and my Jim.A.Cooper personal account. Truth is, it's a WTF news feed 24/7 and it's hard to sift. I am selfish and would rather post on IG and just let it be seen, than answer the "How much is it?" honest but clueless queries from FB.)

The forums are still visual and are the BEST medium for honest dialog. But that's tedious to this new click and swipe generation.

All this said, the sky isn't falling. Not that quickly. However (a polite version of the most powerful word in the English language: 'but', which disables any premise in three letters.), one ought to be mindful of what you like, and not what will retain value in resale. For makers you need to watch and start mixing in your dubstep or email a tuning file to your clients. If you catch my 'drift'.;)

I have a boatload of Hill Pearce knives which won't amount to a Hill of Beans to anyone but me in twenty years. LOL! :D :p

Good thread.

Coop
 
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