What Genre of knives is on its way up.....and what's on its way down ? :)

i was recently having a conversation about some of the well healed, relatively young denizens of my area that my brother affectionately refers to as the "D-Bag crowd." Someone ask the question what is the main quality that they look for when making discretionary purchases of goods? The funniest and perhaps most telling answer was "expensive." You couldn't get these folks to look twice at a $2500 damascus bowie or $1500 tactical folder, but I bet that you could eventually sell them on the idea of a $500+ custom kitchen knife for display on the magnetic rack above the Wolf, Viking, Aga or, if they are really rich, Le Cornue range that more often than not serves as a place to put take out containers. if you want to know the potential of this market, just Google "Brooklyn custom kitchen knife makers." There, you will find stories about current and former residents of that recently hip borough like Joel Bukewicz, Chelsea Miller and Moriah Cowles. Look at what they are offering and how much they are asking. The "market" as far as the crowd at the various kitchen knife forums goes, may be saturated and those same people poo-poo those Brooklyn folks and others of their ilk, yet look at all of the press those people get. If you want to talk abut a potentially huge market where NONE of the people frequent knife forums, there it is. Same deal for Adam Simha of MKS Design in Boston who makes the knives with the bicycle handlebar covers for handles. He is having them produced now by Lamson and it on his second or maybe third manufacture..
 
some things just never go out of style. This type of conversation is kind of funny, since I'm sure it's been happening for as long as our need for edged tools has been marketable:)

That being said, there seems to be a general movement away from natural materials toward synthetic ones. I think materials are more up for big changes than genres- types and genres ebb and flow in popularity due to numerous cultural paradigm shifts, and perhaps the sets will wash in more frequently as innovation in technology and styling become more commonplace due to increased supply and demand, aka; investment.

Obviously, automatic folders are increasingly important to the market as laws loosen regarding their restricted carry. In the US, at any rate.

I think the integrated carry knife, (ICK- you heard it here first!) where the sheath and the handle are one, will continue to become more popular. Innovations in opening and closing mechanisms, integrated technologies, ergonomic data acquisition and further development of materials and styling will capture the majority of interest, but that interest in general is growing, which will probably help carry all segments going forward. Even for the cavemen pounding out blades old skool styles.

But I don't have no crystal ball and don't generally give this stuff much thought, but sometimes you see the current and this is what I see, fwiw.
 
I think the integrated carry knife, (ICK- you heard it here first!) where the sheath and the handle are one, will continue to become more popular.
I like the acronym. But I can't put my head around what you are referring to. "Continue to become more popular?"

Show us ME what you are referring to? Sounds inviting.

Thanks.
 
some things just never go out of style. This type of conversation is kind of funny, since I'm sure it's been happening for as long as our need for edged tools has been marketable:)

That being said, there seems to be a general movement away from natural materials toward synthetic ones. I think materials are more up for big changes than genres- types and genres ebb and flow in popularity due to numerous cultural paradigm shifts, and perhaps the sets will wash in more frequently as innovation in technology and styling become more commonplace due to increased supply and demand, aka; investment.

Obviously, automatic folders are increasingly important to the market as laws loosen regarding their restricted carry. In the US, at any rate.

I think the integrated carry knife, (ICK- you heard it here first!) where the sheath and the handle are one, will continue to become more popular. Innovations in opening and closing mechanisms, integrated technologies, ergonomic data acquisition and further development of materials and styling will capture the majority of interest, but that interest in general is growing, which will probably help carry all segments going forward. Even for the cavemen pounding out blades old skool styles.

But I don't have no crystal ball and don't generally give this stuff much thought, but sometimes you see the current and this is what I see, fwiw.

I couldn't agree more on the autos wait till ya see what I got at Blade :)
 
Very, very interesting read. I appreciate the input and opinions that have been posted on this thread by some very seasoned makers and collectors. I quickly realized that for the most part, I fall outside the lines to some degree as far as tastes related to age is concerned. I am a cowboy boot wearing, muscle car loving, mid 30 year old 😉 My tastes strongly lean towards the vintage/traditional style of knives and cars. For example, I spent the weekend driving my friends brand new Ferrari and while it might be the baddest thing I've ever driven, I literally told him that I needed to go ahead and get a Chevelle SS that I've always wanted. When I finally get my home office situated, I'll order a Bowie from one of you guys to display on my desk. With all that being said, I'm carrying a funky little flipper made by Jon Graham today...why, because it's a practical little knife and plainly put, I love knives of all types. I collect knives that I like, I don't look at them as an investment and I use every single knife that I've bought so far. So which style of knife is trending up and which is trending down...? Seems to change daily in the custom world. Instagram seems to be the place to check the pulse of the knife world. What's hot today likely won't be as hot next month but may have a resurgence a year from now. Isn't that what makes collecting knives so fun!? Frustrating for makers though :( Oh, and like many have already said, Don Hanson makes some amazing knives and will likely get my $$$ in the future!
 
Very, very interesting read. I appreciate the input and opinions that have been posted on this thread by some very seasoned makers and collectors. I quickly realized that for the most part, I fall outside the lines to some degree as far as tastes related to age is concerned. I am a cowboy boot wearing, muscle car loving, mid 30 year old 😉 My tastes strongly lean towards the vintage/traditional style of knives and cars. For example, I spent the weekend driving my friends brand new Ferrari and while it might be the baddest thing I've ever driven, I literally told him that I needed to go ahead and get a Chevelle SS that I've always wanted. When I finally get my home office situated, I'll order a Bowie from one of you guys to display on my desk. With all that being said, I'm carrying a funky little flipper made by Jon Graham today...why, because it's a practical little knife and plainly put, I love knives of all types. I collect knives that I like, I don't look at them as an investment and I use every single knife that I've bought so far. So which style of knife is trending up and which is trending down...? Seems to change daily in the custom world. Instagram seems to be the place to check the pulse of the knife world. What's hot today likely won't be as hot next month but may have a resurgence a year from now. Isn't that what makes collecting knives so fun!? Frustrating for makers though :( Oh, and like many have already said, Don Hanson makes some amazing knives and will likely get my $$$ in the future!

Good post, I believe there's a lot more younger collectors out there who share your collecting tastes than some realize.
 
I like the acronym. But I can't put my head around what you are referring to. "Continue to become more popular?"

Show us ME what you are referring to? Sounds inviting.

Thanks.

It's relative- as in continue to become more popular than sheath/straight knives, opposed to waning in popularity at some foreseeable point in the future.

Now, if and when the apocalypse arrives, straight knives will make a comeback. Try running your machines for your knives that have those pivot thingies without that fancy 'electricity', lol! James Helm gets it- he future proofed himself!

The immediate future belongs mostly to ICKs, though, I think.
 
Interesting thread for sure. As a a younger 'collector' (referring to my self as a collector seems rather pretentious when I only own 10 custom knives), I do not believe I own a single tactical custom piece. I specifically gravitate towards slip joint folders and traditional fixed blades.

Perhaps something to consider is what state the collector lives in. I love fossilized walrus as a handle material, yet cannot purchase a knife containing said material as it is illegal in my state. If someone whipped out a tactical folder in public in my neighborhood, I would be surprised if someone didn't call the police.
 
Kitchen knives are what I do most. I like making fighters, bowies, but kitchen knives are a great seller for the millenial crowd. I'm not an established maker by any stretch, but 10:1, it's custom kitchen knives over other styles.
 
Lorien: I truly didn't realize you simply meant folders. Color me 'Derp....' :p

I thought you had some newfangled detachable fixed blade sheath/handle thingamabob.

Huh? Show me. LOL!

THx.
 
Kitchen knives are indeed great sellers, as they appeal to a much broader market than most. But try selling a tactical folder or forged bowie to the Prada-wearing housewife that just picked up a Kramer for her upscale kitchen. You'll probably get slapped. Completely different market...

And the kitchen knife buyers aren't necessarily collectors who buy multiple knives a year, nor do they generally have much influence on trends in the custom knife market like we're discussing here.

As far as current trends go, I might have a slightly different perspective since having moved over to the European continent a few years ago and hanging around slightly different circles than I did when I first started collecting and making knives. But here's some of what I've noticed. First, there are more custom knifemakers in the world today than at any single time in history, and due to modern technology they're also much better, and much closer than they've ever been. How many collectors here have recently picked up a Shirogov, a CAS, a Cecchini, a Lurquin, Markman, or a Bouchonville without ever having had to leave their own living room? Collectors today have an embarrassment of choices available to them, and they are taking full advantage.

Among the many thousands of contemporary makers I've also seen quite a few new ones who are already making truly top end work. People very few of us had even heard of two years ago are making and selling knives that some seasoned veterans could only aspire to. This is, in part, because knifemaking schools and classes are readily available across the globe, while books, internet forums, youtube videos etc. also provide ready access to information that used to be near impossible to find. Older makers learned the hard way, and sometimes the wrong way, while many of the newer makers are learning fast and learning smart.

Technology is also playing an important role. On both the design and execution side, makers today have far more options available to them than they used to, and are taking full advantage. How many makers used CAD to design folders, or milled frames and blades using CNC equipment 20 years ago? Even simple things like belt grinders have advanced greatly since the days of the Burr-King and the Grizzly. Makers exploiting modern technology are producing some truly exceptional work for very reasonable prices. Do I even need to mention Nathan Carothers?

And on the international front, there are makers today living and working in countries where $5/ hour for their labor can still allow them to live comfortably. They come from parts of Eastern Europe, Russia, Latin America or Southeast Asia, and in today's global marketplace they can sell their knives right alongside folks from California, Tokyo, or Berlin who couldn't even cover their health insurance for what these guys make.

These are the realities of today's market, and they are having a huge impact across the entire spectrum of custom knives. We have far more makers from all over the world producing far better knives than ever before, creating a level of competition that requires all makers to step up their game. In order to sell knives in this market, makers need to do at least one of the following:

1) come up with very unique and appealing designs;
2) execute their work with utmost precision, fit and finish;
3) devise a highly visible and effective marketing strategy;
4) OR lower their prices to below that of what current mid-tech or high-end factory knives command

Suddenly the flat-ground Arkansas bowie with uneven grinds, a plate guard, and broomstick maple handle doesn't seem all that interesting anymore, does it?
 
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I think these are good points that have been made.

I want to add to it that we, to a certain extent, have some control over what trends will develop. After all, the collectors have to see an example of a style that interests them before they can know about it. So, what we make, and what people like Coop help us display (thanks, Coop) will help shape desires.

For example, the Fiery Beard group from another forum (most of whom visit here, too) have had a large impact on desire for study, making of, and collecting seaxes and Viking-style knives and swords. The craftsmanship of pattern welding and adornment that these guys do, as well as their ability to weave modern work with history and fantasy, gives a rich tapestry that draws people in for a lot of different reasons (everything from fantasy gamers to archaeologists).

Just one example. I think the good looking and ready for use/abuse work that Matt Gregory turns out is another example. It is linked to history but also to the tactical crowd, and has the ability to (hopefully for Matt) create a niche.

I am trying to do the same with Chinese swords. Hopefully, there are enough tajiquan and kungfu types that want to buy a blade made with known steel and from a guy they can interact with in the design of the sword to accompany their art. We shall see...

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but what we make (well) will have a large impact on what people want. I hope.
 
Very, very interesting read. I appreciate the input and opinions that have been posted on this thread by some very seasoned makers and collectors. I quickly realized that for the most part, I fall outside the lines to some degree as far as tastes related to age is concerned. I am a cowboy boot wearing, muscle car loving, mid 30 year old 😉 My tastes strongly lean towards the vintage/traditional style of knives and cars. For example, I spent the weekend driving my friends brand new Ferrari and while it might be the baddest thing I've ever driven, I literally told him that I needed to go ahead and get a Chevelle SS that I've always wanted. When I finally get my home office situated, I'll order a Bowie from one of you guys to display on my desk. With all that being said, I'm carrying a funky little flipper made by Jon Graham today...why, because it's a practical little knife and plainly put, I love knives of all types. I collect knives that I like, I don't look at them as an investment and I use every single knife that I've bought so far. So which style of knife is trending up and which is trending down...? Seems to change daily in the custom world. Instagram seems to be the place to check the pulse of the knife world. What's hot today likely won't be as hot next month but may have a resurgence a year from now. Isn't that what makes collecting knives so fun!? Frustrating for makers though :( Oh, and like many have already said, Don Hanson makes some amazing knives and will likely get my $$$ in the future!

God bless Texas :)

Like I mentioned the bulk of my collection is big classic Bowies and I also like cowboy boots :)

But alas just because I like something it doesn't mean what I'm noticing isn't happening

In the car market like I said I own a large warehouse that in its day was a hotspot for muscle car activity

A collector housed about a 50 to 60 car collection there and one of the best big block wrenches on the east coast worked out of there for the last 18 years

The collection was once valued at over a million bucks easy ...... It is about to be pieced out for around 700 k

The engine builder has died and his space is now home to a diesel tech

His protege just built me this



[video=youtube_share;GPEDTUkzRRM]http://youtu.be/GPEDTUkzRRM[/video]

But attend the shows

You are the exception not the norm

As I said certain muscle cars will always command a premier price but on the whole they have declined

Also attending knife shows will show you what is going on across the board

The hardest thing to do is come to grips with sometimes what we like is not what the majority likes and that if customs will continue to flourish and pull people in we need to heed what's on the wind

In the meantime thank god for younger buyers like you that have similar taste to us old guys :)
 
Derrick (Wulf): Fascinating! and stated so smartly. Great insight.

Kevin (the Professor): My particular prominence among photographers is that I am successful in a 'niche' market. And that's the area you are strengthening toward as a maker. Smart.

As Yogi Berra said: "Hit it where they ain't!"

Coop
 
Very, very interesting read. I appreciate the input and opinions that have been posted on this thread by some very seasoned makers and collectors. I quickly realized that for the most part, I fall outside the lines to some degree as far as tastes related to age is concerned. I am a cowboy boot wearing, muscle car loving, mid 30 year old 😉 My tastes strongly lean towards the vintage/traditional style of knives and cars. For example, I spent the weekend driving my friends brand new Ferrari and while it might be the baddest thing I've ever driven, I literally told him that I needed to go ahead and get a Chevelle SS that I've always wanted. When I finally get my home office situated, I'll order a Bowie from one of you guys to display on my desk. With all that being said, I'm carrying a funky little flipper made by Jon Graham today...why, because it's a practical little knife and plainly put, I love knives of all types. I collect knives that I like, I don't look at them as an investment and I use every single knife that I've bought so far. So which style of knife is trending up and which is trending down...? Seems to change daily in the custom world. Instagram seems to be the place to check the pulse of the knife world. What's hot today likely won't be as hot next month but may have a resurgence a year from now. Isn't that what makes collecting knives so fun!? Frustrating for makers though :( Oh, and like many have already said, Don Hanson makes some amazing knives and will likely get my $$$ in the future!

My kind of guy. Thank you! :D

I do seem to sell a fair number of Bowies to younger guys. Most Folders go to older guys. :cool:
 
I see a lot (or seems like a lot) of 'Tactical' guys getting into traditional slip joint folders.

Trend, or just something odd?
 
Joe, I think your assessment is most likely correct. While I enjoy a few luxuries in life, free time is currently not one of them. Truthfully, I scratch my head at other collectors who are in my age group who can afford higher end customs who also have the time to go to many knife shows each year. Maybe I'm in the wrong profession? I'm certain that if I did attend some of the large shows, I'd leave with a better understanding of what you and many others on this thread are witnessing. But that brings up a very good point someone already that I will echo: I can experience knifemakera work from all over the world and pick up their work to add to my collection without ever leaving my living room! If you're an "old school" knife maker, please do not underestimate the power of modern day media platforms like Instagram. Trust me, I really dislike the computer and am very much a face to face if phone call kind of guy but almost all of my puschases of higher end customs this year have come directly thru my Instagram feed.
I believe the custom market to be a very small percentage of the overall knife market. As a result, makers need to be very aware of who their market is. As mentioned above, if you're not marketing your product, you're probably been experiencing a bit of shrinkage in sales over the years. Someone above already lined out some very good points about how to reach today's crowd.
Joe, I'm sure we would be fast friends. Anyone who loves knives, guns, archery, old cars is probably someone who is love to hang out with! And yes, God Bless Texas!
 
The knife market is in a state of flux and fluidity.

I go to a fair amount of knife shows....TKI, AKI, Blade, Plaza, this year, going to Solvang.

Folding knives are definitely outselling fixed blades at the shows....by a wide margin.

To speak to what Joe is talking about....The Buck 110 is still one of the most popular folding knives available on the retail market to the general population.(how Buck makes a profit on a U.S made knife that has wood handles and about 4 oz of brass, sells for around $50.00 with a leather sheath included and comes with a limited lifetime warranty confounds me, I mean seriously, how do they do it??)

But when you are talking to knife collector/users, there are probably a lot more youngsters saving money to buy a ZT knife designed by Emerson, Hinderer or Sinkevich as a beginning knife and looking towards purchasing a Chris Reeve Sebenza. They quite often don't even consider the Buck knife.

The cult of personality continues to be a, if not THE dominant factor with this group of buyers. They want to get to know the makers like Emerson, who is truly treated like a rock star at shows and carries a battery powered, diamond tipped rotary grinder to autograph knives for people.....and he uses the heck out of it! For some of these collectors, it is ALL about aesthetics, as they are interested in only three things.....1)Who made it....2)How it looks.....3)How much will it sell for on the aftermarket. Use is not even a consideration, and along with that, ergonomics become unimportant.

Tactical knives are not currently a guaranteed hot ticket. The young collectors that came into the market because of the aftermarket profitability are slowly leaving because the "flip" is not a sure thing anymore, and the ones that are playing the game with scared money cannot afford to sit on cold product or make mistakes, and one thing custom knives have always experienced is tough going without a healthy reservoir of knowledge. You can't "think" you know what's up, you have to KNOW what's up.

The makers who have a good product at a reasonable price are doing ok. The top tier makers are doing fabulous....but the makers in between are looking at the future with uncertainty.

There are small boutique shops that create fixed blades that are doing well....not a "hot ticket" by any stretch, but slow and steady.

As an example, Southern Grind was making one model of fixed blade knife for a period of time and doing ok, but the introduction of their "Bad Monkey" folding knife made as much of a difference in sales as the Sebenza did for Chris Reeve Knives, and CRK NO LONGER produces the one-piece fixed blade knives that they became famous for.

I truly don't know what is going to happen with certain materials as far as legality/availability goes. Fossil ivories have never been my thing, and thusly I don't pay much attention to it. It's highly likely that a large portion of the knife buying public will reject a knife that has ANY ivory on it for practical reasons as well as emotional reasons that have nothing to do with logic. The reason I don't like any ivory is that it is subject to more shrinking/swelling in the SoCal environment than most other materials, and I prefer Mother of Pearls for stability and aesthetics...and stag for durability.

Everyone knows how I feel about the ABS, and their silence as an organization concerning the plight of the DesRosiers while unsurprising, is shameful and embarrassing. It does not reflect the true spirit of goodness and positivity that the knife community represents.

The makers who have not evolved stylistically, those who still use the "same ol'" materials are likely to have a very, very hard ability to make full time knifemaking viable in the very near future...the writing is on the wall.....looking to new markets like China or Russia is risky and adding loss through shipping as a factor is not an element that some of the more shrewd makers I know are willing to chance.

So, in answer to the question:

Large Forged Bowies in monosteel(without hamon) and ivory handles/stag carvers are very slow right now...would have to say that if you are successful selling drop-point hunters, you are likely one of the most lucky makers in the world.

Tactical knives are slowing for the middle group of makers, those who have been at it a while and who's prices reflect it. The "Mid-Tech" approach for some of these makers is dead in the water.

Kitchen knives are doing very well, not seeing any slowdown in this sector.

Great post, Joe.....looking forward to more discussion!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

STeven,
What of the many, many Loveless inspired knives? Especially sub-hilts, fighters etc...
 
STeven,
What of the many, many Loveless inspired knives? Especially sub-hilts, fighters etc...

Loveless knives themselves are doing fine. Had lunch with one of the top dealers and he told me that they were still moving quickly. He keeps little inventory on hand, so there is no reason for him to provide false information. In doing some quick online perusal, inventory levels are still sparse and the prices have not dropped....however, I would not say the market is "hot", it is steady.

The top makers that work in the style are all over the place in pricing. Some are holding, some are charging the same as they have all along, but he aftermarket is not able to charge a premium for some of them. FWIW, I picked up an S.R. Johnson Loveless-style 6" fighter with stag scales late last year at JUST slightly less than market value and turned down $1,000 profit on it because I think it will go up quite a bit in value over time...regardless, it's a beautiful knife.

Have been told by many makers who have just gotten established in the last few years that their orders have slowed down.

As always with respect to Loveless knives....The Shop produces about 10%-15% of the total output as fighters.....so there is a scarcity factor.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Joe, I think your assessment is most likely correct. While I enjoy a few luxuries in life, free time is currently not one of them. Truthfully, I scratch my head at other collectors who are in my age group who can afford higher end customs who also have the time to go to many knife shows each year. Maybe I'm in the wrong profession? I'm certain that if I did attend some of the large shows, I'd leave with a better understanding of what you and many others on this thread are witnessing. But that brings up a very good point someone already that I will echo: I can experience knifemakera work from all over the world and pick up their work to add to my collection without ever leaving my living room! If you're an "old school" knife maker, please do not underestimate the power of modern day media platforms like Instagram. Trust me, I really dislike the computer and am very much a face to face if phone call kind of guy but almost all of my puschases of higher end customs this year have come directly thru my Instagram feed.
I believe the custom market to be a very small percentage of the overall knife market. As a result, makers need to be very aware of who their market is. As mentioned above, if you're not marketing your product, you're probably been experiencing a bit of shrinkage in sales over the years. Someone above already lined out some very good points about how to reach today's crowd.
Joe, I'm sure we would be fast friends. Anyone who loves knives, guns, archery, old cars is probably someone who is love to hang out with! And yes, God Bless Texas!

Amen :)

We are friends :)
 
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