What Genre of knives is on its way up.....and what's on its way down ? :)

This thread reminds me of something . . .

what is it . . . ???

Oh, I know.

This

and this

Even the tumbleweeds and muscle car analogies! LOL!


Everything old is new again!
 
Now a days it is harder to pin down trends, society is much less mainstream. People are able to congregate into so many different little pockets of the internet, and virtually control what kind of information they see (and dont see). I think as maker you can literally just find the crowd you want to cater to by browsing the internet. For me I was very surprised to find that 90% of my custom kitchen knives are going to guys that are about my same age, 28-34 years old. (Most of them wax philosophic about the skills of the old masters of the trade and how the wait lists are too long, and they just love those rustic finishes and somehow an 80 grit scratch is appealing) I would be curious to see if that is the largest knife buying age group out there. Custom/handmade things in general is on its way up, knives included. I expect to see small growth in many different genre of knives b/c simply people and their interests can not really be generalized so easily. I see a huge amount of attention to straight razors, swords, chef knives, tactical knives, loveless knives, bushcrafters mostly because those are the veins of information I choose to see. Many of my peers drive classic motorcycles, wear cowboy boots, get vintage tattoos, In fact I just got an invite to a 1920s themed wedding by none other than a couple of them "hip" brooklynites Jd mentioned. Sorry for the rambling but in summary, the accessibility of special interest communities has accelerated the diversity of genres. The cog has a million more teeth than it did 20 years ago.
 
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OK one more observation I want to make: We now live in the age of reality TV, social media, and the selfie stick. It’s a world in which Katie Perry is considered a musician and Bruce Jenner is named Woman of the Year. Style over substance.

And amidst all this superficiality we encounter hordes of consumers who will buy things only because of their looks, or due to the status they think it confers. In the knife world they will fall all over themselves to buy new-school tacticals with wild-looking compound grinds even if that coolness comes at the expense of actual cutting performance!

These folks will judge a knifemaker not by the quality of his work, but how cool it looks on the screen, and how many Instagram followers he has. It’s the same mindset that justifies actually paying up for a pair of “distressed” pre-ripped jeans or a knockoff Prada handbag.

No market is immune to fleeting trends and fashions – especially in discretionary or luxury goods – but it seems even more pronounced today than I ever remember seeing it in my lifetime. It’s the selfie-stick culture, and it’s all around us. Even here.
 
OK one more observation I want to make: We now live in the age of reality TV, social media, and the selfie stick. It’s a world in which Katie Perry is considered a musician and Bruce Jenner is named Woman of the Year. Style over substance.

And amidst all this superficiality we encounter hordes of consumers who will buy things only because of their looks, or due to the status they think it confers. In the knife world they will fall all over themselves to buy new-school tacticals with wild-looking compound grinds even if that coolness comes at the expense of actual cutting performance!

These folks will judge a knifemaker not by the quality of his work, but how cool it looks on the screen, and how many Instagram followers he has. It’s the same mindset that justifies actually paying up for a pair of “distressed” pre-ripped jeans or a knockoff Prada handbag.

No market is immune to fleeting trends and fashions – especially in discretionary or luxury goods – but it seems even more pronounced today than I ever remember seeing it in my lifetime. It’s the selfie-stick culture, and it’s all around us. Even here.

I think the demographic you are describing is more the teenager and maybe college kid. I dont see to many of them buying knives ;)
 
The hipster crowd is as much a part of this culture as the teenagers. The largest demographic of instagram and facebook users is 25-34, and this same demographic is also among the most active and influential in the custom knife market.
 
I'd like to point out, to Joe, that it is possible to refine and evolve a person's tastes in knives.
My tasted have evolved from all tactical to a more traditional bent. Custom's and productions.

I've moved toward more traditional folders like slipjpints, including my first custom slipjpints by J. Oeser.

Now, I'm not a spring chicken.

I am almost 39 (if memory serves correct). My tastes in knives have evolved over the years.

I think, in part, due to knowledge gained here.



Western style knives, as you term them, Joe, weren't really in my wheelhouse when I began my journey.

Big bowies have always been of interest to me, but other knives had not been of interest. Traditional fixed blades, like Scagle style, Ed Fowler, and many others would never have been on my radar, if not for input over the years on this site.


But, on the other side of the coin, I am not really the consumer that the top makers are selling to, either.

My custom knife purchases are limited by owing much money in student loans. This will be so for the foreseeable future. I'll likely be a grandfather when this changes....
 
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The hipster crowd is as much a part of this culture as the teenagers. The largest demographic of instagram and facebook users is 25-34, and this same demographic is also among the most active and influential in the custom knife market.
You are saying the 25-34 year olds are the most active and influential in the custom knife market?

I must be working in a different custom knife market?

Maybe this is what Joe is talkin about?
 
A lot of good points here. People need to recognize the millenials are coming and you've gotta learn how to deal with them.

If you are selling someone in a 'custom' knife, it better look custom. There has to be a value proposition for someone to lay out the money and one of the few you can truly provide is the design.

I had a really hard time explaining to someone why they should spend 500+ on a really generic looking bushcratfer from a MS versus an almost identical looking knife from Bark River for less than half the price.

It's a tough thing to say but it's true. You can talk about the craftsmanship and heritage and other special speak but that only works on so many people (myself included).

You also have to recognize social media isn't going away and people like to play show and tell. I think this is what put the mid tech market away as fast as it came out.

Everyone desperately wants a makers work so they are willing to shell out a good chunk for a cookie cutter mid tech. Then they go to show it off online and they are inundated with 500 photos of other people who have the exact same knife. If they wanted to have everyone have the same knife as them, they could have bought an arguably better knife for less money from a regular production company.

Design and uniqueness I think are really the only things makers have going for them. Craftsmanship, the name etc etc can only get you so far with some many people.

I've been thinking about this a lot recently because the custom folder market is so soft right now and production knives are so amazing right now.

A lot of makers came in the scene, made cookie cutter titanium framelock flippers and had an initial pop because of the hype to get on a makers books before they close and the secondary goes crazy. That's pretty much gone and now they are having to stand on their merits which isn't saying much in some cases.

I wrote this all on my cell so I hope it makes sense. I'll be back on here tonight when I'm home and can clarify as needed.
 
You are saying the 25-34 year olds are the most active and influential in the custom knife market?

I must be working in a different custom knife market?

Maybe this is what Joe is talkin about?

Yes. They have the disposable income, the lack of family obligations and youth on their side. The money might be in the older set but as Joe said, they are only going to be around so long.
 
You are saying the 25-34 year olds are the most active and influential in the custom knife market?

I must be working in a different custom knife market?

Not exclusively, no. But in certain segments of the custom knife market that demographic is hugely important. Your segment, not so much ;)

The custom knife world is broad and diverse. There are makers and collectors of every stripe, with countless sub-groups among them. I'm just pointing out that the new blood - and this is true in any market - often plays a pivotal role in shaping new trends and setting the course for the future of the industry. This is the 25-34 year old demographic, the folks who are just beginning to have a bit of disposable income but may not have slowed down yet because of having kids, etc. As long as this thread is about new trends, I think we should all pay close attention to what these young whippersnappers are doing :)
 
Scurvy you posted as I was writing my response. Your observations are spot on.

Oh, I also want to add, Don, your work appeals to the most highly discriminating, experienced, and knowledgeable connoisseurs of high end custom knives. The whippersnappers just aren't there yet. :D
 
I think my buddy Derrick nailed it.

You'll see knives on instagram that the knowledgable folks here would maybe pay $300-$500 for, sell on auctions for $4,000 - $5,000... because the maker has a huge following and lots of cool factor photos. I'm not sure who these buyers are...but they certainly are having an effect on the market.
 
I sold 30 knives through AZCK in the last 14 months....if anyone wants real world information, would be happy to share what I sold and why.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
This is great information being discussed here from both collectors and makers of all ages. Being a younger maker (just turned 23) I have not been privy to all of the shows or exposure to collectors as everyone else commenting on this thread has. That being said I still see some interesting trends in the knife world. Living in Minnesota has given me a very interesting perspective on a niche market within the the greater American market, namely in Northern European and Scandi style blades, small utilty carving knives such as puukkos, etc. Outside of the European market this is strictly confined to Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa and they are very difficult to sell, but if you are in with the community here you can't keep them on the shelves.

The reason that I even bother bringing this up is because I believe it is an expression of a larger trend. Probably five years ago, when discussing with another more senior smith, I predicted that learning to make knives and other handmade items would shift from about 10% of the market to at least 45% in the coming years, and indeed it has exploded. (With my prediction being mostly luck based). But I feel that the explosion in people wanting to learn how to make things again and purchasing hand made items as well is a shift in the idea of a what is being collected to why they are collecting. We have all seen the knife market expanding in recent years, not necessarily for certain niches, but the number of collectors has gone up tremendously. I believe this is because there is a shift underway from the idea of a small group purchasing many knives to a large group purchasing one or two knives. Of course there will always be collectors, but I feel that the market is moving towards highly sensible, indiscreet, everyday, "responsible" knives. Knives that are meant to be and are used daily by a larger segment of the population, and if this trend does occur over the next 10-15 years most likely we will see a general drop in average price of knives as they move towards more ergonomic and simple designs. Just my two cents, I'm still very new to the knife world as a maker and always value all of your thoughts on matters such as these.
 
Robert - I sure hope you are right. I dearly love making the Nordic-inspired stuff, and it would make me very happy if that became a more, "in demand," product. Simply because they are so fun to make.

You write very well for a young man, too. I wish you would tutor some of my university students.
kc
 
i'm not a maker, i'm a buyer, but here's my "2 cents"...i've bought all kinds of knives in the past 2 decades, but mostly damascus bladed ones, and mostly hand-made. i used to buy fixed blades, but rarely now. mostly folders. i've spent from $50 to $15K for various folders, from no-names to ray appleton, will tuck, and wolf loerchner...nowadays, i'm big into 2 kinds...damascus flippers, and thailand damascus folders, ala suchat jangtanong, one of my all-time favorite makers. $$$ is not the issue for me...style, uniqueness, and quality of build are what i mostly care about. but i am probably not typical in my thinking or my 'eye'. however, i very well may represent developing trends...jzs
 
seeing that table full of suchat knives at ECCKS always blows me away, sad the show is moving south next year.
 
Now a days it is harder to pin down trends, society is much less mainstream.

This is a really great point. Used to be, people were glued to the tube, getting most of their news, exposure to products and the like through tv.
As people increasingly choose to ditch tv, maybe they'll start doing things. Things like cooking and camping, where a knife is damn handy.
Individuality is something that the younger generations yearn for and express boldly in many ways. Could be one of these ways is by having a custom knife.
 
I sold 30 knives through AZCK in the last 14 months....if anyone wants real world information, would be happy to share what I sold and why.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

I would certainly find that to be interesting



I think that the top end framelock makers that work hard publicizing their knives are still on the up.

We'll see more beginner level makers and lower end forged knives but I see that market getting even more competitive. Anybody making a mid tech slipjoint might do well but that's just a guess.
 
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