What happen to Quality control?

P

pa knives

Joined
Jul 28, 2004
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This weekend I stayed in on Sunday due to very cold tempertures and blowing snow. I sat by the roaring fire and enjoyed watching the birds at our feeder. :) I decided to look over some of my knives for possible problems and oil joints etc. I like to do this periodically as it gives me and excuse to handle them to. My tells my son not to bother Dad because he is "playing with his knives". :p I was looking at a Case trapper that my son had given me for Christmas in 2000. A LIMITED EDITION smooth rose. I don't really collect new new knives but being it came from him I added to my "keeper" selection. Much to my dismay I closely looked over the construction. The back stop struck about a good 16th of an inch below where it should on both blades. In fact they were actually sloped downward when the blades were open and the knife held square. Now being a limited edition trapper of 1 of 2500 I guess I expected it to be a good solid well made knife. NOT SO!!! :grumpy: I then pulled out an Albertson Kane Pa made in the 30's. Worn from some use, but the craftsmanship was perfect. ;) After all these years the mechanisms worked perfectly and matched as they should. NO wonder I only collect older Pennsylvania related knives. I use to live very close to the CASE factory and for a long time that is all I collected. At one time I had over 300 of them. I now have three, two very old ones that are gorgeous and one smooth Rose trapper that will only stay because of who gave it to me. But I think someone at Case needs to look at these things and remember the quality. I found myself looking at LOWE'S knife selection and turning away in discuss as the CASE knives were looking and packaged like the other cheap knives, but only $10 to $20 more a piece.Gimicks and so called limited editions of JUNK. I realize that economics drives these things but doesn't quality help to maintain pace. I am hurt that Knife God CASE is letting me down. I will continue to live in the past a collect only OLD pieces. I am sorry CASE, but you need to tighten it up. I am now looking at getting a custom knife from Morrow. At least it will be crafted. I don't mind paying for quality. Thanks for letting me ramble.
 
I haven't held a decent Case in my hands in the last 40 years, all my finest Case folders are at least 40+ years old.

I think with all the selling and reselling of Case quality stepped aside for productivity.
 
I've been rather disappointed with most traditional pocket-knife makers.

I've often wondered to myself, if Victorinox can make thousands of nearly perfect pocket-knives for a reasonable price, why can't Case or Schrade or Camillus or Boker do the same?

Buck does very well on their traditional folders IMO.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
I've got a small Case stockman that looks nice with red bone but the fit and finish is so so and not sharp at all out of the box. I had a Camillus trapper that had both back springs bent to one side. The blades and springs showed the tool marks from the stamping machine had not been ground off at all and were rough. I had a German made Boker stockman that had a smiliar rough finish and the main blade struck the back spring creating a flat on the edge. The only folders that shows consistantly good fit and finish are Victorinox SAKs. I've given up on traditional patterns even though I like older style knives but none of the companies I know make a folder as good as a Victorinox without charging 3-4 times as much. I think Case and similar companies rely on the novelty and collector market and not aim their goods at real users.
 
I hope that Case QC is not that bad! I just ordered two for myself....:eek:

Matthew
 
I don't think Case quality is terrible. But I do think their knives are overpriced for what you get. $40 - $60 for a small mid-quality folder is too much.

-Bob
 
I don't think that Case actually makes knives. A while back another member made an observation that is so simple and to me very true. Case doesn't make knives but instead makes and sells collectibles. They happen to be knife shaped collectibles as opposed to beanie babies but they are the same thing. :(
 
Same ole cowpokes kicking Case. Think I've read it all before from this bunch.

For once, I am not going to say the same thing, but something different. Just got a Case Brothers Doctor knife in amber bone over the internet. Came in pretty as a picture. The knife had a good fit for the bolsters, nice pins, nice rounded spine and edges on the bolsters. Little burr on the edge, but it was easily fixed. Just what the teenager ordered. By the way, teenager is knife savvy and has made kit knives but he wants a Case Dr.

Instead of bashing Case, why not tell us about the great slipjoints you've gotten at the same price.

PAKnives, instead of griping to us, why not send the knife back to case. If you truly think it's not fair value, then put your postage behind your complaint. By the way, for any brand, being in a run of 2500 doesn't really give a knife added value or assure extra attention during production. It is a marketing ploy that often doesn't even raise the MSRP.
 
brownshoe said:
PAKnives, instead of griping to us, why not send the knife back to case. If you truly think it's not fair value, then put your postage behind your complaint. By the way, for any brand, being in a run of 2500 doesn't really give a knife added value or assure extra attention during production. It is a marketing ploy that often doesn't even raise the MSRP.
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First of all I am not one of the "same ole Cowpokes" I am fairly new to this list and having been in the hobby of Knife collecting and specifically Pennsylvania Knives for over 30 years I feel very confident in my assestment of Case Knives that I have reviewed. I repeat, that I once had over 300 hundred Case knives in my collection. Not all were junk as most of them were made prior to 1970, but the quality continues to fall. You are right that a limited edition does not assure extra attention during construction. That is obvious when ones looks at this knife. The Quality is awful. It was a gift therefore I will not return it. But the other companies let you know that a limited is something special not a plain jane in a pretty wrapper but only $50 more, COME ON were not stupid. But until Case changes it ways I will not contribute to there version of Beanie Babies as it was so well put.

I love pocket knives made in this state and have visited the plant several times as well as the historical show place they have. In this situation the ole saying of "they just don't make them like they use to" holds ever so true. Yes it is a marketing ploy that many of the knife companies seem to like to use. Don't charge me the hight dollar based on what you use to be able to produce, it doesn't make it any harder to have the machine correctly pin the blades or punch the holes. Surely someone other than the knife collectors see this slop. If this is the situation then they should stamp them differently. Case Seconds or something. You can't sell a Caddy with bent wheels for the same price as one with straight wheels. You must tell the buyers, It called a lemon law. The fact is the majority of comercial made knives that are on the common market are JUNK in my opinion. You sir need to take a closer look at your newer knives and compare them to the knives of yesteryear, The Quality has disminished and I dare anyone to argue that point. Just my two cents
 
Pa knives, if the knife so dispirits you, then why not send it back? It is obvious a source of considerable consternation. I am sure your son would rather you be happy with his present than for you to see his present as a constant example of how little he understands your hobby.

I include you in the "cowpokes" not due to your time on the forum, but because you have expressed your negative feelings about case knives in the past. You're obviously in the "hate case...better in the past" group. My experience with case differs markedly from yours. I am also not ignorant of quality as you imply. My slipjoints range from antique to custom, so I am familiar with different levels and definitions of quality.

THe old ones are better may be true...but this is also the sad song of the old who cannot recognize that things change. A knive of 60 years ago was a treasured expensive possession. That's not true today, knives are a lot less expensive than they were 60 years ago if you compare price to actual dollar income. There are teenagers on this forum that have multiple knives, 60 years ago all they'd be able to afford is one. Also, don't forget, only the good knives survive the test of time. The bad ones and the ones with QC problems get used up or disappear through history only leaving the cream of the crop.
 
brownshoe said:
THe old ones are better may be true...but this is also the sad song of the old who cannot recognize that things change. A knive of 60 years ago was a treasured expensive possession. That's not true today, knives are a lot less expensive than they were 60 years ago if you compare price to actual dollar income. There are teenagers on this forum that have multiple knives, 60 years ago all they'd be able to afford is one. Also, don't forget, only the good knives survive the test of time. The bad ones and the ones with QC problems get used up or disappear through history only leaving the cream of the crop.
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I'll agree that only the best survive, but why, then, can victorinox make better knives for less consistently?

I read in a auto shop one day a sign that said:
It's not the name on the tire that makes the tire good, but the tire that makes the name good.


Regardless, I'll have a chance to test them out in a passaround next to queen, so we'll see.
 
Must be I'm easy to please, all my Case knives are well made and finished nicely, by my standards anyway. The only one with a "problem" is my Seahorse whittler, the coping and pen blades rub the main blade when opening and closing. I think if you are buying for a collection, you should look for a "perfect" knife, fit and finish wise, out of a display. If you are like me and intend to carry and use your knives, a little cosmetic imperfection isn't that big a deal. Case makes a nice product, not perfect but nice, enjoy them for what they are.
 
IF YOU CAN'T MAKE IT GOOD, THEN WHY MAKE IT AT ALL? Pride in workmanship is a dying thing. I don't hate the knife I recieved, I hate the poor craftmanship that was advertised as something very special. You look through rose colored glasses my friend. As Levine says, read the knife.
 
There ya go.
I've encountered the same thing going on in the workplace, from Burger joints to professional offices. ALOT of people don't care about doing the best job they can, or even doing it correctly; just patch it up, do the least work possible, and get that paycheck while running out the door. And what makes it worse, some are actually proud of the piss poor job they did! Then there are others who won't even take responsibility for their sloppy work making it worse still. If I did work like that, hundreds people could get killed.
Anyway, that's why I'm buying higher quality production and hand made custom knives. I might still get a cheaper knife at a sporting goods or hardware store if I think it's going to get lost, the quality really doesn't matter much, or it'll get banged up badly; but, if it's going to be a reliable daily tool, or even an artistic collectible, the quality has to be there and it has to show.
 
You know something? The strong may be the ones that survive, this is true, but how is it that I can pull any number of knives out of my 50 year and older drawer and have them exhibit better than Case now, or many other makers? That drawer's an amalgam- Case, Queen, Schrade Walden, Imperial, Remington, you name it, but I can confidently say that the level of workmanship today is far below that of 50 years ago. Sure, knives are cheaper now on a per-hour basis, but should that really matter that much?

Here's an example: Back in 1935, a Remington 1123 was $2. That's 8 hour's work at minimum wage. Minimum wage today is about $6. Can you get a knife of that type of quality for $48 today? I'd like to see you try. Find me a large folding hunter with jigged bone, pinned shield and properly timed blades/springs for less than $50, and I'll be highly impressed. Case can't say that- if you want something close, it'll be at least $60, if not more, and you'll have to get lucky on the finish. Queen comes closer, at about $55. Cam, Schrade and the others don't even offer bone anymore, for the most part.

I have a number of what I call "paint can Barlows". These are Imperial baby Barlows, cheap knives with red plastic handles, and were sold out of paint cans at the old hardware store for a quarter. Fit and finish there is better than a large part of the knives nowadays, at 200 times the price.
 
"far below?", "horrible quality?" C'mon. Let's use some common sense. American labor is too expensive to hand make knives on a production basis. People won't pay $200 for a production trapper with flawless fit and finish. The quality of Case and other knives may be below the quality that they were 50 years ago but only slightly - maybe. I have a few hundred of them myself and the differences are subtle at best. If you can get flawless quality from a custom maker at $500 or more per knife and you're willing to pay for quality then the road seems clear.

How does Victorinox do what they do? Automation. Exactly the opposite of what those complaining about current quality want.
 
Knife Outlet said:
"far below?", "horrible quality?" C'mon. Let's use some common sense. American labor is too expensive to hand make knives on a production basis. People won't pay $200 for a production trapper with flawless fit and finish.QUOTE]

You are correct sir, that we cannot expect the craftmanship of yesteryear at bargin prices. My problem is simply that the average knife is coming off the assembly line is lesser quality than I think they are capable of making. I really like Case Knives it is just that it has gotten really sloppy. I can see no reason for this to be the norm. If I am wrong, I will apologize, but so far I don't beleive that to be the situation for average knife manufacturers. A tool should be built to work properly and to have the blade stiking below the stop is unacceptable to me. Not when it is supposed to be one if not the best made knives in America.
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I think the Victorinox comment is quite useful. I bet that Victorinox has invested enough to have very modern machinery and processes, the rsult is labor aavings and higher quality.

I'll guess, and I could be totally wrong, but many of the examples mentioned which have poor quality are made on machines 20, 50 or 75 years old.
 
pa knives said:
You are correct sir, that we cannot expect the craftmanship of yesteryear at bargin prices. My problem is simply that the average knife is coming off the assembly line is lesser quality than I think they are capable of making.
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Of course. And you could say that about any manufacturer. The point is that quality has a cost and the market place has limits on the costs it will sustain. Let's take, as an example, the knives of Chris Reeve. His small scale manufacturing facility puts out folders with flawless fit and finish. His quality is as good as can be achieved in the knife industry, I believe. The quality control system is 100% and very thorough. Those folders cost over $300 apiece at a minimum. The quality control is part of it and the hand work is the other part of it. The same could be done with traditional folders and the cost would likely be in that price area. There is no reason Case couldn't do it if the market for such a product were there.

Perhaps someone could reproduce Chris Reeves fanaticism for quality in a similar kind of company making traditional folders. Do you think such a company would survive and prosper? I don't know but I wouldn't invest in one.

I'm very glad Case is there making knives in the USA with what I consider excellent quality and value for the times. We've already lost Schrade. Let's try to support those that remain and make a good product. It is to the benefit of all of us.
 
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