What happened to Kershaw?

[palonej]

Really SG??? I've brought this up many times and no one has mentioned this.
Thank you so much bro!!
Joe


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[MaxFisher]

Really SG??? I've brought this up many times and no one has mentioned this.
Thank you so much bro!!
Joe


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He's right. Kershaw are very flexible about sending out parts so you can fix your own issues. One of the best things about them.

 

[Comeuppance]

You need a new set of springs.
It sucks, but it's true. My Launch 2 started doing that after about a month. I contacted KAI, and they sent me a new coil spring, a new plunger spring, and a new steel blade stop at no charge. 5 minutes with a couple of torque bits, and I had the parts changed out.

The knife now kicks like a mule and thwacks open.

My 6 has the same problem. This is great to know. Thank you for sharing this.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

Really SG??? I've brought this up many times and no one has mentioned this.
Thank you so much bro!!
Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No problem at all I just sent them a quick email, got a reply within about a business day. They said they'd have them to me within a couple of weeks. 3 days later a padded envelope was sitting on my desk at work.

I'm not sure if the Launch springs just wear out quickly (I probably fired it several hundred times before it started to go loosey goosey) or if there was a bad run of them, but the knife certainly FEELS like it jumps out with more gusto. I will say that the new coil spring seemed a little more tightly wound and the plunger spring seemed less compressed. Who knows. They hooked me up at no charge

Actually, this is one of the reasons that KAI usually gets my business regarding modern style folders. I used to have a slew of their mid-level 50-75 dollar offerings, but as they went for a lower price point, my interest in them waned. I recently made the leap of trying out ZT last year. I spoiled myself by leaping right in with the 0452cf. Loved it. Bought a 350 as a work knife. Bought a 909 because I wanted a beast. The fit and quality seems quite good for a knife in the $140-240 range.

As much as some hate the assisted folders, and I can see why, I carry my ZT350 the most since I use it as a work knife. I do prefer the baring system, though.

As far as what "happened" to Kershaw, I think ZT became a more profitable focus when paired with their box store offerings. My guess is that they can make a profit on the margins of the volume they sell to walmat/academy/etc with their lower end sub $30 stuff and make more dollars per knife on the ZT by offering a more premium product that doesn't quite hit mid tech prices.

Resources probably were allocated from the mid-level as they probably don't yield as much profit.

I will say that I haven't purchased an actual Kershaw knife in several years. I'm happy to keep buying ZT stuff to scratch my itch.

 

[MarkN86]

I would have to agree with you, Comeuppance. The offerings of late are pretty disappointing. Back in 2014-2015 I was looking over the catalog and saw that they were making more cheap knives out of 8Cr13 and I thought it was a pretty good minimum for their cheap line. I can live with 8cr13, it's a good tough beater/user steel. There were a lot of new models coming out that were of acceptable quality and it was getting pretty exciting. I got to looking around in the 2016 line and I saw a number of the new knives were made of 3cr13. I laughed it off as a bad joke or maybe a misprint. My heart sank to see that they were serious about going to sub-420j2 steel in their low dollar offerings. I'm disgusted by the low end steel and the fact that I've broken torsion bar after torsion bar on knives without ball detent holes.

While I am a knife enthusiast, I'm a broke knife enthusiast. I can't afford high end stuff like ZTs, Benchmades, or high end Spydercos, so I stick to the $25-100 range and try to find the absolute best knives in that range. Sadly, I've moved away from a lot of the cheaper Kershaws since the quality is suffering so badly. Instead of the low end Kershaws I find myself admiring more Buck knives. My Buck Vantage took over as my main EDC. Why would I carry a $25 Kershaw that breaks a torsion bar in 3 months, requiring me to order parts and fiddle with it, putting wear on a tiny, somewhat hard to find torx bit, and during use having to be conscious not to open and close it more than necessary, and to make sure that a little water doesn't get into the mechanism and possibly cause rust on the bar? I could carry a $25 Vantage in 420hc, that holds an edge as well as 8cr13 and I'm not afraid to get a little wet in use. My higher end Kershaws like my Blur and my Skyline do get some pocket time, but a Buck or a Spyderco claim the most pocket time by far.

I don't complain about much when it comes to knives compared to some, but I will go on record to say that I HATE assisted openers with no ball detent for backup. Horrible design choice. I've had a torsion bar break at work and had to carry a knife in my pocket for about an hour that could open at any time. There's never been a time where I needed a knife so fast that I couldn't get it open in time with a manual flipper or thumb stud. If the knife is not crippled by the AO failure, that's OK, I can live with it, just don't make me risk injury by being too cheap/lazy/efficient to drill a tiny hole in a blade.

Just my opinion, and you know what they say about those..

 

[Scurvy092]

I would have to agree with you, Comeuppance. The offerings of late are pretty disappointing. Back in 2014-2015 I was looking over the catalog and saw that they were making more cheap knives out of 8Cr13 and I thought it was a pretty good minimum for their cheap line. I can live with 8cr13, it's a good tough beater/user steel. There were a lot of new models coming out that were of acceptable quality and it was getting pretty exciting. I got to looking around in the 2016 line and I saw a number of the new knives were made of 3cr13. I laughed it off as a bad joke or maybe a misprint. My heart sank to see that they were serious about going to sub-420j2 steel in their low dollar offerings. I'm disgusted by the low end steel and the fact that I've broken torsion bar after torsion bar on knives without ball detent holes.

Just my opinion, and you know what they say about those..

Two new 2016 knives are 3cr knives and they are both gimmick knives...

Not counting Big Box only special editions of knives you can get with 8cr steel elsewhere.

 

[o4tg]

The last Kershaw I bought was a Thermite. Everyone raved about it. To say I was disappointed was an understatement. Flimsy frame lock, slippery, chippy brittle blade, and the black finish looked and wore like spray paint. No detent, crooked markings, blah, blah, blah. What a terrible knife.

My good friend has a Link, and while the craftsmanship is there, he's sharpening it constantly, it's slippery, and it feels borderline fragile.

Don't even get me started on the Skyline. Flimsy, and terrible action.

I wouldn't let go of my 0350 or my Nerve, but after checking out some of their newer knives, I don't see myself buying any KAI's for awhile. Especially when the company that makes most of their budget blades has launched their own brand with better steels, bearings, better fit and finish, and in my opinion, better designs.

Kershaw is like that ex girlfriend that was smoking hot when you were with her, but has went downhill over the years to the point you wonder how low they'll sink. That may sound rude, but they used to be my favorite brand. Now their market is a name brand on truck stop knives. It saddens me.

 

[sabre cat]

Just a couple of years ago, Kershaw was hard to beat. Today, they only offer a few products that I would even consider. My taste have changed some but, not very much. I try to avoid assisted opening knives and knives that do not use proven blade steel. That leaves out most of Kershaw's offerings. In my mind, anyway.

I would love to see Kershaw bring out a non-assisted Blur with G10 scales. That would a great knife!

 

[J85909266]

ZT and Kershaw are the same company. ZT makes knives for enthusiasts, Kershaw makes the lower end stuff. It's just some rebranding.

 

[Etna]

ZT and Kershaw are the same company. ZT makes knives for enthusiasts, Kershaw makes the lower end stuff. It's just some rebranding.

Kershaw's 'lower end' stuff cost more than the bulk of S&W and Schrade knives that Taylor churns out, and I'll bet S&W and Schrade's quality today has matched or even surpassed the Kershaws. At the very least, you don't see Taylor using 3Cr13 steel for their S&W or Schrade knives.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

KAI is a big, hungry corporation. Enthusiasts are a small, niche market. Kershaw is expanding their hold on the big box market because it's what's profitable. But here's the other bit, how many here have commented that we're unhappy with the new lineup but own at least one of the new knives? How much do you think they need us to buy for us, as consumers, to be profitable for their bottom line? I'm not a big fan of Kershaw at the moment, but I swear I end up with one new one every time they add to the lineup. A CQC-6K, CQC-4KXL, and this year it will be an Induction once it hits. So I may not be on the forums singing their praises, but they're still quietly making their money off my purchases.

And, if I'm honest, I don't miss them that much. I think what most of the complaints are really centered on is that Kershaw isn't really bothering to compete in the $75-130 range. But, if we're honest, I don't think that range has EVER been more competitive, so I would love to see them drop something amazing in that price range, but I don't blame them in the least for shying away from competing with S110V, CTS-XHP, S35VN, ZDP-189, Axis lock, CBBL, Triad lock, Compression lock, RIL, titanium, G10, carbon fiber, etc.

 

[Inazone]

Kershaw's 'lower end' stuff cost more than the bulk of S&W and Schrade knives that Taylor churns out, and I'll bet S&W and Schrade's quality today has matched or even surpassed the Kershaws. At the very least, you don't see Taylor using 3Cr13 steel for their S&W or Schrade knives.

You still have to compare apples to apples. Once people get past the Chinese manufacture or the fact that the Schrade of today isn't what they (or their dad, grandpa, etc.) grew up with, they find that Taylor can make good knives. They also continue to churn out a lot of garbage. It's all about price point. If retailers like Wal-Mart come along and ask Kershaw to produce a knife to sell for $15, and "downgrading" to 3Cr steel is the way to do that, Kershaw - from a business perspective - would be crazy to pass on it. And it is a business, after all. Meanwhile, most of their inexpensive imported models are still 8Cr and presumably made to compete with Gerber, CRKT, SOG, etc. In my experience, Kershaw still tends to have the best quality at that level. However, it's not going to impress knife enthusiasts. If you don't like Kershaw's designs, they're most likely not going to win you over with ho-hum materials. Even most of their US-made knives are pretty mediocre in terms of steel, except for a handful of models ala the Camber, certain Blur models and the occasional limited run like the Elmax Knockout, S110V Shallot and so on.

I own a lot of inexpensive knives, several being imported Kershaws. Today, I'm carrying a One Ton. It doesn't look to be anything special, but this 8Cr13MoV blade has held its factory edge despite cutting zip ties, various cables and the usual cardboard, tape, etc. No other "low end" knife I own has held up to this much use. Maybe it just has a better heat treat? I have no explanation. It's a Chinese knife that cost me $20 or so when new. Would I be wrong to expect the same performance from another $20 Chinese knife with 8Cr13MoV steel?

 

[MaxFisher]

Kershaw used 3Cr13 on a few knives. Most notably, the Duck Dynasty collabs and a few other Wal-mart specials. Their entire budget line hasn't gone that way and most (if not all) of their 2016 offerings are still in 8Cr13MoV. I'd love to see more premium US made models from Kershaw, but I explained my thoughts on why were aren't seeing them earlier in this thread.

I feel like those few 3Cr13 knives are leading a few to jump to the fallacious conclusion that that will be the standard steel for their import models, but there is no reason to assume that so far.

 

[MaxFisher]

Kershaw used 3Cr13 on a few knives. Most notably, the Duck Dynasty collabs and a few other Wal-mart specials. Their entire budget line hasn't gone that way and most (if not all) of their 2016 offerings are still in 8Cr13MoV. I'd love to see more premium US made models from Kershaw, but I explained my thoughts on why were aren't seeing them earlier in this thread.

I feel like those few 3Cr13 knives are leading a few to jump to the fallacious conclusion that that will be the standard steel for their import models, but there is no reason to assume that so far.

That being said, one of the biggest dings against Kershaw these days are the rise of knives like the ESEE Avispa and Zancudo produced by BRK and the Onatario Rat 1 and 2 that are Taiwanese produced knives with AUS-8 that are at or below the price point of a lot of Kershaw's import products.

 

[flarp]

That being said, one of the biggest dings against Kershaw these days are the rise of knives like the ESEE Avispa and Zancudo produced by BRK and the Onatario Rat 1 and 2 that are Taiwanese produced knives with AUS-8 that are at or below the price point of a lot of Kershaw's import products.

The RATs and Zancudo/Avispa seem to typically fall in the $25-35 range, which is where many (most?) of the Kershaw imported models also land. AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV are comparable steels when done well (which Ontario, BRK, and Kershaw all do). One difference to consider, though, is warranty and support, which also factors into the cost. Ontario has a stated 1-year warranty on the RAT-1 & 2, and BRK's warranty is more ambiguous (they just say to call them). The Kershaws have a stated lifetime warranty, free sharpening, and even a blade replacement option (although probably not as relevant for a budget knife).

 

[MaxFisher]

The RATs and Zancudo/Avispa seem to typically fall in the $25-35 range, which is where many (most?) of the Kershaw imported models also land. AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV are comparable steels when done well (which Ontario, BRK, and Kershaw all do). One difference to consider, though, is warranty and support, which also factors into the cost. Ontario has a stated 1-year warranty on the RAT-1 & 2, and BRK's warranty is more ambiguous (they just say to call them). The Kershaws have a stated lifetime warranty, free sharpening, and even a blade replacement option (although probably not as relevant for a budget knife).

I see your point. The price range is definitely similar. Whilre AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV are touted as similar, I've found AUS-8 to perform a little better in practice than most 8Cr I've used. Also, you get a better finish on the blade of the Rats and especially the Avispa/Zancudo with its stonewashed look. The warranty is great, but not a huge selling point at this price level. For a knife under the $50 mark, I'm far more likely to just buy a new one than go through the steps of sending it back to be inspected/worked on/replaced (I realize I may not represent the norm in this). Also, the three Kershaw knives I've sent in for warranty work were returned to me without being repaired and had to go in for a second trip to get fixed, so I'm not a huge fan of the service I've received from them.

 

[craytab]

It is not just about the warranty on a $25 knife. It is the fact that the company stands behind the product. They have at least a little interest in you keeping your fingers :thumbup:

 

[metsfan]

Since the introduction of Zero Tolerance knives in 2006, KAI has basically moved more of their designer high-quality knives away from Kershaw. Kershaw Tilt introduced in 2010 was the last of those. Kershaw now mostly wins in the Best Buy category at Blade Show. From 2010 on back there were some notable models winning in other categories: Tilt, Speedform, Tyrade, Offset, RAM, ET, Spyker, etc.

Pretty sure the Ruby was their latest high end piece

 

[okcalderon]

zt happened to kershaw I agree with you about everything I have spent 2 years collecting new in box kershaw blades from 15 years ago I own almost all sandvik, s30v, cpm440v and composite blade and s60 blade at that time, it seems that kershaw has changed their marketing strategy, kershaw sells only knives between $20.00 to $50.00 for higher grade steel knives you have to go to zt where they range from $125 to $500. I think and its just my opinion only, they use kershaw now to get you to buy zt! if you notice there is only one s30v blade in the kershaw line that's above $60 that's the Kershaw Camber. I believe the quality is the same, it's just that the steel in the kershaw line are now lowered grade steels, like you said mostly 8cr13mov it's decent chinese steel but doesn't compare to anything zt, benchmade or spyderco. Kershaw should offer a line of knives between $50 and $125 but they don't. instead kershaw markets to the beginner knife enthusiast hoping to go to zt and get you to spend more money. I do have to say the designs are still cool as ever my favorite kershaw knife in the new line? the Kershaw scrambler, I just wish they would or maybe zt would release it in s30v. hope this helps

 

[TsarBomba]

For the most part I find myself in agreement with the overall tone of the thread. The fact that the Cryo II was singled out as an example of a consistently poor Kershaw, however, surprised me. Considering that I paid well within the range under discussion for mine when the knife was new (<$40) and it has always been in my modern carry rotation I can't find any agreement with including the Hinderer stuff alongside some of Kershaw's later Walmart specials. The Cryo II has 8Cr13MoV blade steel, F&F is more than acceptable for a sub-$50 knife, and mine was a breeze to switch to tip-up carry. Sure, it's not going to compete with American Spyderco, Benchmade, ZT, etc. products, and I understand why many enthusiasts are against AO (I'm not; mine opens and closes like a dream), but it doesn't deserve to be tossed in with the detritus of fashion-forward multi-colored 3Cr13 bargain bin knives, even if that's Kershaw's current trajectory.

I'm also not much of a believer in the Leek, specifically, but that's another discussion for another day.