What is INFI?

[cybrok]

Sometimes, for some applications, it worth the money.


Maybe the process could be improved to reduce costs if made in quantities big enough.

This summer, I'm intern for a project with IREQ (energy research institute) to improve the Hall-Heroult process to reduce cost of aluminum production, same aluminum that once was saved for great occasions in the 1800.

so much of what you're posting makes little sense in a real world application.

I think you underestimate the application domain of composites.

 

[Tyrkon Lawson]

I need to get a 20 year old filling replaced. Wonder how INFI would fit the bill?

 

[cybrok]

Guitar strings made out of INFI would likely sound like crap.

And you know this because?

 

[Lycosa]

Cy---I was a big skeptic of infi. I waited a year to order one. But...!!!
Order an infi knife and you'll be hooked and...convinced.

 

[Sputnic]

It's Like the Super secret Coca Cola recipe. It's a Trade secret. But all I know is that it's the BOMB!!!! Very Nice.

P.S. The Secret ingredient in Coke is( Remember back in the early 19th century there was actually COCAINE in Coke??) Well the "Secret ingredient is DE-Cocianated Coca. Like De-cafe Coffee. De-Cocained Cocaine.

Anyway, INFI is Very Very Great Steel. I Kind of like the SR-77 a little better. it Takes a finer edge for me anyway.

 

[Ken44]

Just to mention I'm studying metallurgy in College, so it might explain my curiosity.

You won't see concrete reinforced with S30V, ZDP189, CMPD2, or any other steels made for knives either. There is a speacialty market for knife steels these days, and most are very expensive.

I think after you have been in class for a while(I take it you just started the metallurgy class) you'll see why many of the responces in this thread make sense.

 

[nozh2002]

Let just define what was done.

How thick Rope was?
What Brand of the Rope?
Was it completely dry? (Wet rope is easyer to cut)
What was the base for cutting?
What length of the blade part was involved?
What was initial sharpness?
What was edge angle?
What kind of cutting move - push or push + draw?

Any updates on this?

Again it seems so far that INFO won the race where only one runner participated - INFI.

Let fix this situation and make others steel to run same distance, but first can we define what was that test? What were details of that demonstration?

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Guyon]

And you know this because?

My guess? Because over time, they'd rust. Guitar strings are made from appropriate ductile and corrosion resistant metals. Though INFI is stain resistant, it is not a stainless steel, and it can oxidize. Said oxidation would likely affect the tone produced by a guitar string. Also, I have no idea about the ductile qualities of untreated INFI.

 

[cybrok]

I think after you have been in class for a while(I take it you just started the metallurgy class) you'll see why many of the responces in this thread make sense.

Just finished my third year, thanks.

Here's a conversation I recently had with a teacher:
me - Do they want to use this as a coating?
him- no, the whole part will be made of it
me- But... it will cost a lot?
him- Maybe, but do you have any idea how much they will save on electricity?

See where I'm going? Invest more to save money later.

Cy---I was a big skeptic of infi. I waited a year to order one. But...!!!
Order an infi knife and you'll be hooked and...convinced.

I can't afford an INFI yet, but you don't need to convince me it's a good steel, I know it. And that's exactly my point.

My guess? Because over time, they'd rust. Guitar strings are made from appropriate ductile and corrosion resistant metals. Though INFI is stain resistant, it is not a stainless steel, and it can oxidize. Said oxidation would likely affect the tone produced by a guitar string. Also, I have no idea about the ductile qualities of untreated INFI.

Some strings rust too especially if the player have sweaty hands. I just tought that if a ¼ thick blade can bend to 30°, a small wire can do more.




I just don't get your attitude. I say your precious INFI is great and should serve more than knife industry, and you answer to me like I'm an idiot. Are you affraid there would not be enough left for your collection? Or are you just affraid to see it fail elsewhere?

 

[1kimo4u]

why would busse want to share it's proprietary steel/heat treat with others? they are a business. business's make money. some comments being made here sound very naive. why, why, why..................... .

just except the facts. busse makes a pretty good product and it's not in their interest to share.

 

[Evolute]

Any updates on this?

Again it seems so far that INFO won the race where only one runner participated - INFI.

Let fix this situation and make others steel to run same distance, but first can we define what was that test? What were details of that demonstration?

Thanks, Vassili.

I don't recall all of it, but, from what I've read, and from the videos and the pictures I've seen, as best I recall:

How thick Rope was? 1"
What Brand of the Rope? I don't know the brand, but I think it was twisted hemp rope
Was it completely dry? (Wet rope is easyer to cut) Dry
What was the base for cutting? He made a wood base.
What length of the blade part was involved? He marked off a 1.5" wide section (I think) with a marker, and did all the cutting with that section of the blade
What kind of cutting move - push or push + draw? It was a push cut, with no draw.

That's as best I can recall. If anybody knows better, feel welcome to correct me.

 

[Balislinger]

To understand why INFI retains an edge better than most blades, and is as tough as it is to boot, you have to understand the heat treating process for knives in general, then, you'll be able to appreciate what Busse puts into its heat treat for INFI. Yes, it's a very good proprietary steel, but man, they're heat treat process is ridiculous. Begin with learning how the best Japanese swords are heat treated, to have a better understanding of how heat treating improves steel. Then, study how cryogenics improves steel. Then, understand that heat treatment also needs to be specifically matched to the steel composition. It's finding that perfect match that makes a great blade steel, and yes, sometimes it involves some trial and error, and alot of experimentation and testing. Busse puts in over 80 hours of heat treating on its blades. It's a deep cryogenic process that involves 40 hours hot (at temps as high as 950 degrees) and then 40 hours cold. Just the cryogenics alone is generally too expensive for most other blade manufacturers to do. So, INFI rocks because of the combination the steel make-up, a heat treat process that has been very well-matched to the make-up, and a labor-intensive, lengthy, high-tech and expensive heat treating process. That's also why they're expensive. But you'll pay $2000 more for a great Japanese sword. It's all relative. If you don't need the best, buy what suits your purpose.

 

[nozh2002]

To understand why INFI retains an edge better than most blades, and is as tough as it is to boot, you have to understand the heat treating process for knives in general, then, you'll be able to appreciate what Busse puts into its heat treat for INFI. Yes, it's a very good proprietary steel, but man, they're heat treat process is ridiculous. Begin with learning how the best Japanese swords are heat treated, to have a better understanding of how heat treating improves steel. Then, study how cryogenics improves steel. Then, understand that heat treatment also needs to be specifically matched to the steel composition. It's finding that perfect match that makes a great blade steel, and yes, sometimes it involves some trial and error, and alot of experimentation and testing. Busse puts in over 80 hours of heat treating on its blades. It's a deep cryogenic process that involves 40 hours hot (at temps as high as 950 degrees) and then 40 hours cold. Just the cryogenics alone is generally too expensive for most other blade manufacturers to do. So, INFI rocks because of the combination the steel make-up, a heat treat process that has been very well-matched to the make-up, and a labor-intensive, lengthy, high-tech and expensive heat treating process. That's also why they're expensive. But you'll pay $2000 more for a great Japanese sword. It's all relative. If you don't need the best, buy what suits your purpose.

INFI does not retain edge better then most blades. It actually take 17 place in 27 tests:

1. Dozier heat treated D2.
2. Yuna Hard II ZDP-189 (second run)
3. SwampRat SR101 (52100)
4. Spyderco Mule CPM M4
5. KaBar Dozier D2
6. Yukka Hankala hand Forged Silver Steel
7. J.P.Holmes CPM 10V
8. Buck BG42
9. Buck CPM154
10. Yuna Hard II ZDP189
11. Buck CPM S30V
12. Kershaw CPM S110V
13. Fehrman R3V (CPM 3V)
14. G-Sakai SRS15
15. Kershaw CPM S30V
16. Buck 420HC
17. Busse INIFI
18. Benchmade M2
19. Ivan Kirpichev Bulat (wootz)
20. Kiku Matsuda OU31
21. Diamond Knives Friction Forged D2.
22. Kershaw Sandvic 1326
23. Fallkniven 3G (SGPS)
24. RosArms 110x18
25. CRKT AUS8
26. Kershaw SG2
27. Benchmade D2

So far by tests it was proven that it is toughest steel and can chop through stainless pipe.

I do not know about other tests on this matter done, except demonstration of manila rope cutting where no other blade were present.

Thanks, Vassili.

I should also add that Japanese swords are not as tough as Busse, actually known to be brittle. I would say that they are on the other side of knife - edge retention toughness scale then INFI. As well as heat treatment for Japanese swords are absolutely different then what was described.

See for yourself: http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/index.html

As well as authentic nihhon-to will cost way over $20 000

 

[nozh2002]

I don't recall all of it, but, from what I've read, and from the videos and the pictures I've seen, as best I recall:

How thick Rope was? 1"
What Brand of the Rope? I don't know the brand, but I think it was twisted hemp rope
Was it completely dry? (Wet rope is easyer to cut) Dry
What was the base for cutting? He made a wood base.
What length of the blade part was involved? He marked off a 1.5" wide section (I think) with a marker, and did all the cutting with that section of the blade
What kind of cutting move - push or push + draw? It was a push cut, with no draw.

That's as best I can recall. If anybody knows better, feel welcome to correct me.

Should not be a problem to have same settings. However I have my wrist damaged after 5400 cuts of 1/2" rope so this test may require quite an effort. But I think it may be done in few weeks for several blades.

I hope some of this "active thread participants" may as well do some real support for their favorite brand, it is bit harder then just typing - beleave me. But it will be real stuff.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[1kimo4u]

Should not be a problem to have same settings. However I have my wrist damaged after 5400 cuts of 1/2" rope so this test may require quite an effort. But I think it may be done in few weeks for several blades.

I hope some of this "active thread participants" may as well do some real support for their favorite brand, it is bit harder then just typing - beleave me. But it will be real stuff.

Thanks, Vassili.

dude, post a picture of your sharpened game wardin. let others decide whether you know more about knives based on your sharpening skills. i use some of my busse knives. but i keep some minty fresh. my money, my choice.

i've beat on 2x4's, 4x8's, after my union apprentice framing class. (i'm the instructor ) i've chopped halekoa trees down and up. i've sliced primerib, kalbi shortribs, etc.....

i must say, i'venever cut 4000 pieces of rope. maybe one or two. does that mean i'm lesser of a knife user (real life usage) than you?

you don't care for busse frome your tone here. why do you keep asking/arguing things that were settled long ago. the op asked about infi steel. you like xyz better. fine. but the subject is infi not xyz.

 

[Roger999]

INFI does not retain edge better then most blades. It actually take 17 place in 27 tests:

1. Dozier heat treated D2.
2. Yuna Hard II ZDP-189 (second run)
3. SwampRat SR101 (52100)
4. Spyderco Mule CPM M4
5. KaBar Dozier D2
6. Yukka Hankala hand Forged Silver Steel
7. J.P.Holmes CPM 10V
8. Buck BG42
9. Buck CPM154
10. Yuna Hard II ZDP189
11. Buck CPM S30V
12. Kershaw CPM S110V
13. Fehrman R3V (CPM 3V)
14. G-Sakai SRS15
15. Kershaw CPM S30V
16. Buck 420HC
17. Busse INIFI
18. Benchmade M2
19. Ivan Kirpichev Bulat (wootz)
20. Kiku Matsuda OU31
21. Diamond Knives Friction Forged D2.
22. Kershaw Sandvic 1326
23. Fallkniven 3G (SGPS)
24. RosArms 110x18
25. CRKT AUS8
26. Kershaw SG2
27. Benchmade D2

So far by tests it was proven that it is toughest steel and can chop through stainless pipe.

I do not know about other tests on this matter done, except demonstration of manila rope cutting where no other blade were present.

Thanks, Vassili.

I should also add that Japanese swords are not as tough as Busse, actually known to be brittle. I would say that they are on the other side of knife - edge retention toughness scale then INFI. As well as heat treatment for Japanese swords are absolutely different then what was described.

See for yourself: http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/index.html

As well as authentic nihhon-to will cost way over $20 000

Edge angle, type of grind and spine width would be huge variables in your test, you need to control those variables to make an accurate and reliable test.

 

[nozh2002]

dude, post a picture of your sharpened game wardin. let others decide whether you know more about knives based on your sharpening skills.

Sure, it was post first on Busse forum and was quite wellcomed there that time. See for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piEsCIKixtE

i use some of my busse knives. but i keep some minty fresh. my money, my choice.

i've beat on 2x4's, 4x8's, after my union apprentice framing class. (i'm the instructor ) i've chopped halekoa trees down and up. i've sliced primerib, kalbi shortribs, etc.....

Sure this is what quality knife for. But this does not make INFI best, until you are not able to use different steel for same. This is what tests for - you put all knives in same situations and see which one is better. Noss4 has his tests and INFI won. I have mine and INFI got 17th place, so you may know what to expect, and this is more informative than fact that so many people happy with INFI - because there are as many people happy with other steels as well, but test shows how they behave in same conditions.

i must say, i'venever cut 4000 pieces of rope. maybe one or two. does that mean i'm lesser of a knife user (real life usage) than you?

I am not sure why do you feel this way. I never sad anything like this, I can imagine that this may be sad about me by other people a lot, but this is up to them. I am not positioning myself better then other (or worse) - everyone equal for me you or me or Jerry Busse - does not matter.

you don't care for busse frome your tone here. why do you keep asking/arguing things that were settled long ago. the op asked about infi steel. you like xyz better. fine. but the subject is infi not xyz.

Well topic subject is - what is INFI, and I provide information I have about it, I did not mention any xyz...

Actually I spend on Busse quite a bit of money. This is my Busses:

After reading all this about INFI I was as well under impression that this is just best of the best.

I actually start my first edge retention testing with Busse, because I was sure that it is bes and want to set up top of the scale this way. Second was what I thought will be bottom of the scale - 420HC. results was very surprising - I brought it to the Busse Forum first and was kicked out of there so fast - I did not even blink my eye. In a year from that I start more accurate testing - results I posted here.

This testings changed my mind a lot. Most important was that best results I have not from most referenced steels. Part of it INFI does not show best results there - it has 17th place in 27.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[nozh2002]

Edge angle, type of grind and spine width would be huge variables in your test, you need to control those variables to make an accurate and reliable test.

Sure If you read what I wrote in that page you may see all that. Also I had long thread about this testing I did last winter in "Knife Review & Testing" subforum. It was result of 5 years attempts. Please, check that it was all addressed there.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Jerry Busse]

I hope some of this "active thread participants" may as well do some real support for their favorite brand, it is bit harder then just typing - beleave me. But it will be real stuff.

Thanks, Vassili.

Vassili,

This is why we invite and encourage all makers and manufacturers to do their own performance testing on their own knives in "LIVE" demonstrations at the BLADE show. It's their reputation on the line, therefore they should be the ones who do the testing.

Customers have NOTHING to lose, and their objectivity is always called into question when comparison edge tests are published. If a "fanboy" for a particular brand of knives does comparison edge testing, then how can anyone be sure that the bevel geometry and edges are actually equal? How can we be sure that they are playing fair?

On page 4 you made my point with this post.

Well, no one else did this demonstration. . .

Was it ever done side by side with othe makers/manufacturers knives?
What is results for other makers and manufacturers?

Thanks, Vassili.

You are correct my friend! . . . . No one else has done this demonstration. . . . . That "Booming Silence" says more than any third party comparison tests on edge holding.

Perhaps you should invite these other makers and manufacturers to duplicate our "LIVE" tests at next year's BLADE Show?. . . . That could prove to be interesting. :thumbup:

Let's Drink! :thumbup:

Jerry

 

[1kimo4u]

hi vassilli. found one of your pics of one of your game wardens.

i think others have pointed out in all your threads on testing that blade shape. blade angle. differing amounts of pressure per cut, degrees edge is sharpened to, etc... all has a effect on the data. i believe some even turned some of your data on you.

reguardless, you believe what you want. i believe what i want. i've spent way too much on busse knives. not as much as some, but more then some. i like them. i also like spyderco, kershaw, etc... . i guess that makes me a "mafia loving bug hoggish fanboy"