What is it about Survive! knives?

[Cobalt]

Last sentence is an argument from popularity. I'm sure GSO makes good knives, but high demand does NOT equal quality.

Quality was on the other side of the equal sign

Quality isn't the result it is one of the elements that give you the demand.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Quality was on the other side of the equal sign

Quality isn't the result it is one of the elements that give you the demand.

Yup, but your last sentence was that the demand wouldn't exist if the quality wasn't there. If we follow that logic Dominoes makes the best pizza in the world.

 

[slight]

And here I thought it was the exclamation mark at the end of their name that was creating all this urgency.

 

[mtangent]

And here I thought it was the exclamation mark at the end of their name that was creating all this urgency.

I thought it was in the middle. Gotta keep that urgency balanced.
I'm glad a number of people are happy with the status quo, & that the owners haven't done a runner with the advance payments.

SK are essentially tough users, not really pretty safe queens, in my eyes, & waiting a long time after payment for a user will never make sense to me.
I hope they make it to the next level, & maybe in 20yrs time we can buy SK at will, off the shelf.

 

[GREENJACKET]

I hope they never get to the stage where a Survive Knife is just another knife "off the shelf". I often think those companies that don't over expand and just produce what they can whilst maintaining their standards tend to make things worth having. I do hope their waiting time comes down to a few months though which is more acceptable. I do hope they don't get to the stage where they have to stop new orders while they catch up on demand.

Now I have a couple of the smaller GSO's I do fancy something like the 7/7, annoyingly I was out of boys toys funds when they were last offered. But they will come around again.

Their products are correctly priced for a high end user knife. Lets hope they make a good living from their efforts and keep at it for a good long time. A small team that can put attention to every knife they produce. Only a few companies can manage this attention as once production goes big then there isn't the opportunity for much human input. Hope they just keep doing what they are, which is produce a no nonsense outdoors knife.

Lastly, the price is correct for what they. Anything higher then there are other makes and styles that compete as in lets say a one off true custom. Pay more if you are in a hurry but the knife is still worth only the original price. The original price make them rather good value.

 

[mec003]

I prefer ordered my 4.1 and received it in about 6 months. Not a terrible wait time. The price from survive! Knives was actually very reasonable. And I think waiting ul to a year isn't too bad.
I do find it disturbing that people immediately flip them for a hefty sum more than they paid. And I would rather wait and save myself the cash while doing business directly with Guy and Ellie. I understand supply and demand, but I think it's poor taste to do so and disrespects the maker as well. This is just my opinion. I understand that sometimes you get a knife and it just isn't what you expect, but the number of brand new never used sk products on the exchange makes me suspect some people are just trying to profit from someone else's hard work.

 

[MatthewSB]

Great steels (CPM-3V or CPM-20CV or CPM-154) heat treated by Peters, with unique heat treat recipes tweaked for even greater edge retention and toughness.

The kydex sheaths are among the best available, certainly better than 99% of the factory supplied kydex out there.

The older knives were kind of rough, with the laser cut lines and sloppy handle-to-tang fit, but the fit and finish on the 2016 GSO knives is excellent, the handles fit perfectly to the tang and the steel is all perfectly finished. The cutting edge is perfect! My GSO 5.1 and 4.7 have perfectly straight, even and consistent edges, something even the best manufacturers have trouble producing. Also, Guy grinds his knives thinner behind the edge, so that they cut very well, unlike most 'sharpened pry-bars' out there. The GSO 4.7 cuts way better than any other SERE type 5" fixed blade I've used, and it has proven to be just as durable.

Top shelf materials, excellent designs, great attention to detail, all for $200. My GSO-4.7 in CPM-154 is the last knife I would ever sell, it's that good.

 

[Cobalt]

Yup, but your last sentence was that the demand wouldn't exist if the quality wasn't there. If we follow that logic Dominoes makes the best pizza in the world.

I don't think anyone considers Dominos quality so by my logic Dominos does not make the best pizza. Once again you placed quality as the result instead of demand as the result. You totally misunderstood the logic and are continuing on a misdirected point. But continue on as much as you want.

 

[chiral.grolim]

The one thing that really bothered me when they first came out was them leaving the edges of the knife rough from the laser cutting supposedly in order to "save the customers money" How much cost does less than 5 minutes on a horizontal KMG or TW90 belt grinder add to the price of a $200 knife? That was unacceptable IMO and they appear to have stopped doing that.

Yeah, they now water-jet the blanks and purchased a blaster to produce what they are calling a "peened" finish on the entire blade... somehow it still leaves the edges sharp enough to kind of strike a ferro-rod? *shrug* But yes, MUCH cleaner look, though I didn't mind the laser-marks.

SK are essentially tough users, not really pretty safe queens, in my eyes, & waiting a long time after payment for a user will never make sense to me.
I hope they make it to the next level, & maybe in 20yrs time we can buy SK at will, off the shelf.

Well, they have been discussing a new version of budget "SK" knives separate from their "GSO" knives...
Previously, the SK's were intended to be the same knives but in a different (cheaper) steel and fewer options for customization, but then they found out that the costs weren't much lower than their regular "premium" models so they scrapped the project. I bought two SK-4's on clearance but only kept one, it's made from cerakoted(?) S-7 Shock steel.
The revised "SK" project is intended as, again, the same models as the "GSO" line but using different steels AND made on contract entirely by another company (I'm guessing similar to the way Benchmade makes the Alias knives, or Moki and Sanrenmu make knives for Spyderco). We'll see if that ever actually happens, but I am honestly happy with the way they have things now - long wait for pre-orders, but very reasonably priced, and occasional availability of "Factory Seconds" (what a joke) as well as "limited editions" including what they call "ugly bettys". I haven't seen what the "Bettys" look like yet, but I'm guess that they STILL look better than what's under the coating of a lot of production knives out there, and while they lack S!K's warranty they are sold for 60%-OFF! I'll probably end up ordering one just to see what it's like. I'm not much for safe-queens, always end up selling the knives I don't use, and I'm kinda hard on the ones I do use and usually fix up my tools myself, so these are right up my alley. :thumbup:

 

[Ratman79]

Survive makes a fine knife, no question. Countless other companies do also. They use CPM steels, Peters HT, and include a nice sheath as well. The only things missing are the ridiculous wait time and the purposeful small batches to create the "false shortage gimmick." Also their practice of taking your money up front to pay their rent and delivering your knife months and months later is distasteful. Survive makes nice knives, but these days they are just another face in the crowd. To each his own, I guess.

 

[marcinek]

Quality + hype + short supply + very fair price= high demand.

If GSO knives were junk there would not be a demand for them

Then shouldn't it be

"Quality = high demand"

Or are you trying to say that "quality," "hype," "short supply," and a "very fair price" are all necessary for a knife to have high demand, and that there are no other traits necessary, and that all high-demand knives possess those traits? Like "necessary and sufficient conditions"?

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I don't think anyone considers Dominos quality so by my logic Dominos does not make the best pizza. Once again you placed quality as the result instead of demand as the result. You totally misunderstood the logic and are continuing on a misdirected point. But continue on as much as you want.

You said, "If GSO knives were junk there would not be a demand for them" that statement was seperate from your earlier equation. If we extrapolate that point we get to 'anything in demand must not be junk'. Given that there's significant demand for Justin Bieber tickets, I'm gonna stick with my earlier diagnosis and insist that you're indulging in a logical fallacy.

 

[onojoe]

Wow, I feel lucky. I ordered one of the GSO 4s factory second and did not have to wait, and got it for a good price. I could not find the flaw. Subsequently I was able to check out a competitors knife from a pass around here on BF. It was a quality knife made by a well respected maker. Before comparing the 2, I would have said the competitors knife was of excellent fit and finish, as the designs were very similar. After comparing the 2 directly, the Survive knife was a notch above in terms of fit and finish. Would one perform any better in the field, I don't think so, but what you are paying and waiting for is the extra attention to detail.

 

[Cobalt]

Then shouldn't it be

"Quality = high demand"

Or are you trying to say that "quality," "hype," "short supply," and a "very fair price" are all necessary for a knife to have high demand, and that there are no other traits necessary, and that all high-demand knives possess those traits? Like "necessary and sufficient conditions"?

Close, my point is that all those factors helped to create a high demand. I never tried to insinuate that those are the only factors that create high demand. NEVER did I say that those four traits are the only ones required to create demand. They are in this specific case. You could take out quality and it would still work. Plenty of evidence of that on here for sure. But in this case, those four traits are all true.

 

[marcinek]

Close, my point is that all those factors helped to create a high demand. I never tried to insinuate that those are the only factors that create high demand. NEVER did I say that those four traits are the only ones required to create demand. They are in this specific case. You could take out quality and it would still work. Plenty of evidence of that on here for sure. But in this case, those four traits are all true.

Much clearer. So you are saying there are, or can be, junk knives that are in high demand. (I certainly say that!) But, in your opinion, Survive are not among those high demand junk knives.

 

[Cobalt]

Much clearer. So you are saying there are, or can be, junk knives that are in high demand. (I certainly say that!) But, in your opinion, Survive are not among those high demand junk knives.

Correct. Of course we see hype and junk in high demand daily. Not just in the knife world

 

[BP_]

as i sit here in my car, holding my very first S!K in my hand, i ask myself that same question. i received it just yesterday (bought from the exchange here), and previously only had spec sheets and opinion to go on. i was somewhat skeptical, but curious enough to pull the trigger. this knife is a good knife. the ergonomics are incredible, the grinds are nearly perfect (i say nearly to allow my eyes room for error), and the sheath (as mentioned above) is amazing. that definitive "click" when it locks in just feels good. it slices well, it's stout enough (but not too stout) to give you confidence for any task, and has a handle design that lends itself well to extended use IMO. i feel that a knife is worth what you're willing to pay. for the price, i would buy it ten times over. it really is that good. i will sell a custom i have been on the fence about, and keep this one to use. it makes you want to put it to work, test it, and rely on it. wait time sucks, yes, but keep an eye out on the exchange and that should speed things up. just my .02

 

[chiral.grolim]

...The only things missing are the ridiculous wait time and the purposeful small batches to create the "false shortage gimmick." Also their practice of taking your money up front to pay their rent and delivering your knife months and months later is distasteful...

Woah, wait, what?? Who's your source on the "purposeful small batches" and "false shortage gimmick"??? That is complete BS.

Have you looked into their production practices? These folk are absurdly transparent about what they are doing and how, more than any other company I have bought from. The "taking your money upfront" was actually implemented as a result of customer demand, literally a "take my money now" situation, and they are using it to build the infrastructure they need to compete with the myriad other "faces" you mention that have almost ALL been around a decade or longer than they have. Not that it matters, the "pre-order" option is being phased out, they currently only have one model remaining that can be pre-ordered, the rest are "in production" (means being machined or just waiting in line to be machined but the steel is all bought and paid-for with pre-order funds). Any other S!K model purchased direct from the company is "in stock" and just waiting for your customization But those sell-out fast...

To wit, the folks that "invested" in the company during their "Starter" campaign back in 2015 subsidized the production of all the "in stock" knives to be made available now and in the coming months If you think investing in a company that is this transparent is "distasteful", don't go looking into your retirement account

 

[GREENJACKET]

^This.

When I pushed the button on my first GSO a long time ago I knew I was taking a chance on a new company that was on start up. I had heard good things about their knives, liked the steels they went for, and was game on too. I'd have zilch chance to chase them from the UK if it had gone tits up. They came in good and through some growing pains have got better and better.
I don't know them from Adam, but good luck to then. They caught my imagination and I was happy to support them.
They have reported as best they could the ups and downs, kept to their word, and to the best of my knowledge never let anyone down.. Seems they've done their best, what more can one ask? Their honesty gives me confidence in their products, which is exactly what one wants in a user knife.

Once Cold Steel was tiny, Chris Reeve, heck even Bechmade.

They are almost "established" now, jut a little further to go ... good on them.

 

[Ratman79]

Woah, wait, what?? Who's your source on the "purposeful small batches" and "false shortage gimmick"??? That is complete BS.

Have you looked into their production practices? These folk are absurdly transparent about what they are doing and how, more than any other company I have bought from. The "taking your money upfront" was actually implemented as a result of customer demand, literally a "take my money now" situation, and they are using it to build the infrastructure they need to compete with the myriad other "faces" you mention that have almost ALL been around a decade or longer than they have. Not that it matters, the "pre-order" option is being phased out, they currently only have one model remaining that can be pre-ordered, the rest are "in production" (means being machined or just waiting in line to be machined but the steel is all bought and paid-for with pre-order funds). Any other S!K model purchased direct from the company is "in stock" and just waiting for your customization But those sell-out fast...

To wit, the folks that "invested" in the company during their "Starter" campaign back in 2015 subsidized the production of all the "in stock" knives to be made available now and in the coming months If you think investing in a company that is this transparent is "distasteful", don't go looking into your retirement account

I don't wish to argue but it's no secret that Survive puts their blades out in small batches. This creates hype and buzz about the products. But somehow there are never enough. Even though the 5.1 sold out faster than any other model--their words. Does that make sense to you? What about simply anticipating future sales based on past successes? Use some of the money you just made to start a fresh run and buy your materials.

To me it seems gimmicky in the sense that it creates this illusion that the blades sell out so fast that Survive just cannot keep up. Some people get swept up in this bushcraft hogwash and feign themselves some sort of Survive Silent Partner. They're somehow "part of the team." The reality is that they do not have enough knives to go around b/c they don't make enough. It's a marketing ploy. Release 10 knives on the website on Monday knowing full well that at least 100 or more people are interested. What happens now? Some want the knife even more. Even if they give up, chances are they'll tell a buddy. Like magic, S! reaches more potential buyers than it ever could have with their forum here or the newsletter. Exposure equals more potential sales.

As far as taking the money upfront to "build infrastructure," sure: that would be fine for a model or two when they first started but they have done it for every single blade they make. After all those knives sold and all that profit you mean to tell me that they don't have enough capital to pay for their production expenses? Come on now. Get a business loan. I don't like paying for something as ubiquitous as a 3v utility knife upfront and waiting 18 months for delivery. No thanks. Not when I could order a BRKT Bravo also in 3v and get it in a few days.

As far as being transparent these days, they sure are. It's only b/c quite a few customers complained about it. Orders were cancelled, and customers went elsewhere. It would be more accurate to say this was a "forced transparency."

Finally, with regard to the retirement account: I put money into the 401k that is matched by my employer. It comes out of my 2 bi-monthly paychecks. When I reach a certain age and retire, all the money I and my employer contributed can be taken with interest to help me live. That is an investment in my future. When I pay Guy a year and a half before I see anything what do I get? Nothing. It's not an investment that helps me at all. It helps them and their bottom lines. I just get what I originally paid for. "Investing" in S! is nothing like investing in my retirement.