I don't wish to argue but it's no secret that Survive puts their blades out in small batches. This creates hype and buzz about the products. But somehow there are never enough. Even though the 5.1 sold out faster than any other model--their words. Does that make sense to you? What about simply anticipating future sales based on past successes? Use some of the money you just made to start a fresh run and buy your materials.
To me it seems gimmicky in the sense that it creates this illusion that the blades sell out so fast that Survive just cannot keep up.
Um, yes yes it is a "secret" even to the owners!
Exactly how many of each model do you think they make?
They have commented on a number of occasions that they DO use some of the pre-order money to purchase sufficient steel to make MANY MANY MORE of each model based on the popularity assessed at pre-order. There is, of course, a limit to what they can manage to produce, and the trouble is that the limit
for some models ends up exceeding what they anticipated. I've bought knives from them on "clearance" because they made more than the market cared to consume, lucky me
But other models just sell out faster than they can re-stock them. Yes, that does actually happen, it is NOT an "illusion" nor a "gimmick". Ever tried to buy a Carother's knife?
You do realize that the company was, previously, only 3 people, right? They're trying out two new employees now (or so the owner said in the subforum), but EVERY knife is sharpened and inspected by the owner. They can only produce so much product in a day.
And
NO their batch size absolutely does NOT create "hype" about the products other than hyperbole like, "They take FOREVER! It must be a ponzi scheme! I'll be walking with a cane before my knife ever shows up!" That's the only "hype" I've been able to find regarding the availability of the knives.
Which i think is funny, because I've never had a problem, I either pre-order or just watch for when they are available on the website, it's really not hard. *shrug* But they really are that good :thumbup:
The reality is that they do not have enough knives to go around b/c they don't make enough. It's a marketing ploy. Release 10 knives on the website on Monday knowing full well that at least 100 or more people are interested. What happens now? Some want the knife even more. Even if they give up, chances are they'll tell a buddy. Like magic, S! reaches more potential buyers than it ever could have with their forum here or the newsletter. Exposure equals more potential sales.
Have you seen them advertising? Here's what they did:
They offered customers a chance to pre-order from a list of knife models, and they put each model into production according to which got the most "votes" (i.e. pre-orders), but a trick to help them keep costs down is to only make ONE model at a time. The estimate how many of each model they can make with funds from the pre-order balanced against how many would actually sell (I'd guess 50% more but have no actual idea, they might make double or triple the number ordered). Then, after building the knives and shipping them out to the pre-pay customers, listing "blemished" models along the way as they turn up in production, they finally list the remaining knives for sale first-come-first-serve.
So how does S!K know "full well" how many customers want to buy a given model, besides the pre-order list? THAT would be magic.
As far as taking the money upfront to "build infrastructure," sure: that would be fine for a model or two when they first started but they have done it for every single blade they make. After all those knives sold and all that profit you mean to tell me that they don't have enough capital to pay for their production expenses? Come on now. Get a business loan. I don't like paying for something as ubiquitous as a 3v utility knife upfront and waiting 18 months for delivery. No thanks. Not when I could order a BRKT Bravo also in 3v and get it in a few days.
I have no idea what their finances are like, no idea how many thousands of "pre-orders" they got during the "starter campaign", but yeah, that WAS their "business loan". You call it "profit", but that is only true IF they didn't use the funds to build their infrastructure and also produce many MORE of each model for sale, which is what you suggested before and is indeed
what they do. :thumbup: Have you never been part of a "Kick Starter" campaign? A recent one was for the DPx Urban, a folding knife that took 6 months from opening until delivery of the first models. Survive!'s GSO-5.1 took the same length of time, 6 months from beginning of production to delivery. Now, no body is demanding that you pay in and wait. Like you said, you could just order something from another company. :thumbup: Then do it and move along. Others are content to wait for what they see as a superior (sometimes exceedingly so) product from an honest business. *shrug* to each their own.
As far as being transparent these days, they sure are. It's only b/c quite a few customers complained about it. Orders were cancelled, and customers went elsewhere. It would be more accurate to say this was a "forced transparency."
No, I've followed them since he offered the first run of GSO-10s, and his production updates have been WAY beyond what I've seen from ANY other company, nothing "forced" about it. This Guy isn't like some company owners who needs to be lambasted in a public forum to give back $16,000 bilked from a potential business-partner (*hint-hint*). You can look back at their track-record of production updates - they are consistent since WELL before they gained the level of popularity currently suffered.
Finally, with regard to the retirement account: I put money into the 401k that is matched by my employer. It comes out of my 2 bi-monthly paychecks. When I reach a certain age and retire, all the money I and my employer contributed can be taken with interest to help me live. That is an investment in my future. When I pay Guy a year and a half before I see anything what do I get? Nothing. It's not an investment that helps me at all. It helps them and their bottom lines. I just get what I originally paid for. "Investing" in S! is nothing like investing in my retirement.
Your money comes out of your pay-check for YEARS before you get
anything from it, and the "interest" it accrues is based entirely on market values. You can end up LOSING money as a result of inflation and poor returns. What eprcent-yield are you currently getting? 1%? less? But more than that, are you at all aware of WHERE the money you are paying is going? Who is getting it? What it's being used for? Lots of "distasteful" things being funded by retirement accounts, just sayin'.
When I pre-order a Survive! knife, I have gotten as much as a 10% discount, which is to say that, should I choose to re-sell the knife, my money has earned a 10% interest in less than a year
But better than that, the knife I receive may be substantially better in quality and performance than a similarly priced competitor. My investment with this honest company pays dividends I could never hope to achieve with my 401k, IRA, or stock portfolio.
Lucky for me, I don't have the funds available to stock up on these knives and try to flip them, because the market will eventually saturate and those wishing to profit off their patience and the hard-work of Survive! will be annoyed. *shrug*
I'm no where near retirement but do watch the percent yield changes on my quarterly investment statements, and rarely do they approach 5%. Hence my comment.
