What is the case/argument for traditionals over a modern folder?

[cchu518]

I am chuckling reading your association of the evolution of anavaja to buck 110 to spyderco knives.

I'm Chinese and grew up in a German, Puerto Rican, irish and Italian neighborhood in Brooklyn, NY.

I was born here but still at the time we were one of the few families in the area that were Chinese. That said I remember my brother and all of his friends in the 80's - an era when it was normal to see Bob seger, Kenny rogers or the charlie Daniels band on network television. America was still very country you know, Dallas was a major hit as was the dukes of hazard, Burt Reynolds had a string of movies as did dolly parton.


Anyhow my brother and his motley band of Italian, Irish, German, Puerto Rican friends (all into souping up their 60s and 70s american muscle cars) were influenced by "popular culture" of the time.

All had to have Buck folders in a sheath strapped on a Budweiser belt buckled belt, lol... City kids with no business needing a buck knife on their person some might argue. Very similar to how I don't need a ti-framelock in my bag going to work in the Chrysler building while living in the suburbs.

To bring it back to your point, as a kid watching my teenage brother and his friends play with their knives in awe...

They spent countless hours working their bucks so that they could pinch grip the buck folder's blades so that they would flick open one handed.... Ergo buck to spyderco not soon after that. Lmao. Thank you for resurrecting that memory!

Couple of things...

Regarding consumerism, the Opinel is a great anti-consumerist knife. Just keep saying, "It's all about the blade." Pirsig says (roughly) that quality is that which gives you peace of mind. There is hope in this, since we can change our mind. Forums suck for this. Just create doubt and the sense of inadequacy that drives us to buy.

As for tactical... Yes, a ball point pen or a bat can be used as a weapon and yes, any knife can be used as a weapon. But, speaking as an engineer who's done a bit of military related work (A colleague noted that our job was to help the military kill more efficiently...) some designs are inherently better at killing than others are. That is precisely why they get chosen by the military or law enforcement officers. They give a decided tactical advantage over other similar, albeit less efficient competitors.

I was working in my shop a bit this morning, found myself holding a bunch of stuff in my left arm and realized I need to cut something. I pulled out my Opinel 9 and opened it one handed, cut the offending zip tie, and closed the Opinel one handed just as smooth as silk. Yes, one handed opening is handy. No, the Opinel isn't going to get confused with thumb stud or Spyderco style tactical.

Regarding the Buck 110 specifically, I think a short version of folding knife bad-boy history can be stated thusly:
Spanish Navaja -> Buck 110 -> Spyerco

All of these knives have had a dual purpose in their day. One part utility knife for laborers. One part weapon. We could pretend it was otherwise, but it would be pretending.

 

[pinnah]

I am chuckling reading your association of the evolution of anavaja to buck 110 to spyderco knives.

I'm Chinese and grew up in a German, Puerto Rican, irish and Italian neighborhood in Brooklyn, NY.

I was born here but still at the time we were one of the few families in the area that were Chinese. That said I remember my brother and all of his friends in the 80's - an era when it was normal to see Bob seger, Kenny rogers or the charlie Daniels band on network television. America was still very country you know, Dallas was a major hit as was the dukes of hazard, Burt Reynolds had a string of movies as did dolly parton.


Anyhow my brother and his motley band of Italian, Irish, German, Puerto Rican friends (all into souping up their 60s and 70s american muscle cars) were influenced by "popular culture" of the time.

All had to have Buck folders in a sheath strapped on a Budweiser belt buckled belt, lol... City kids with no business needing a buck knife on their person some might argue. Very similar to how I don't need a ti-framelock in my bag going to work in the Chrysler building while living in the suburbs.

What a great story!!! I grew up in lilly white rural central Ohio where "diversity" meant "Catholic" and was exactly the same!! Funny how some things transcend cultures!!

There's a guy in the office who obviously grew up in... well... a safer environment I guess. Funny... He's a body builder and he's like huge but if a small pocket knife appears to open the copier paper, he literally squeals. And no, I'm not beyond using this knowledge when I'm bored.

I'm all about being polite in polite society and all that, but really....

 

[Coonskinner]

I dabbled a little in modern folders.

I have a grand total of one left, a Spyderco Calypso Jr. in VG-10.

It is no sharpened prybar, but a thin, razor sharp cutting machine.

I don't carry it much and I have no sentimental attachment to it.

Not so my traditionals.

 

[FarmKid]

I have to say I've broke more modern folders than traditionals. Broke clips,blades,handles, etc. For me they aren't useful me. I don't think knives as weapons. I'd pick a gun, stick, axe over a knife for defense. Like everyone else I like beauty and character over a one hand wonder. Plus I think they are gaudy and ugly.

 

[arizonaranchman]

The practical aspects having been well covered, I will give the mushy answer:

A traditional knife has a sort of a bargain that goes along with it. It is often carbon steel, so you will look after it or it will rust, and you will keep it sharp or it will be useless when you need it. It is a slipjoint, so you will use it mindfully or you will bleed for your carelessness. But if you take care of it, it will last -- it will last until the blades are black with age, as thin as toothpicks and still snapping like a trap. It will last until your great-grandkids bury it with you, or -- even better -- until they refuse to.

You'll want it to be beautiful -- A Fine Example of the Cutler's Art, yes? You'll want bone, horn, antler, or wood, (or all of the above, if you have the Affliction) -- something with warmth and character of its own. You'll want the pins polished until they vanish into the bolsters and the shield perfectly inlet into the scale material. You'll want it to snap the way they do when they've been fitted together just-so by somebody who cared enough to do fine work. And then it serves as a reminder that work of quality finds an appreciative audience someday (even if it's just you), and also as a tool for producing work of quality, yourself.

I admit that as someone who works in front of a computer in a little grey cubicle, I seldom have cause to use my little pocketknives day to day, and so this sense of 'receiving and propagating a tradition of quality' is more philosophical than practical. But I'll also say from weary years of experience that this environment is an awfully easy place to lose your perspective -- i.e. just where a tool that doubles as a reminder is a fine thing to have tucked in your pocket.

--Mark

Well said Mark. It's a warm feeling every time I reach into my pocket and fish out my #55 Houndstooth. I can't help but admire it's inherent beauty and old fashioned charm, hearkening back to simpler times and pride in craftsmanship.

 

[jth250]

It is just the way of life here where I live in rural Kentucky almost everyone carries a traditional if you pull out a modern one hand folder people wil make fun of it. You could lay down a $50 case and a $400 sebenza and 99 out of 100 people here would pick the case because they have never heard crk, benchmade, or spyderco and most have never even heard of gec but they know all about case, old timers and boker and the other older knife companies and they have survived just fine.

 

[22-rimfire]

I do like traditionals and I am leaning more and more to them yearly. They just "look like a pocket knife" and remind me of simplier times and days. I don't carry a knife for protection, so traditionals fit right in with a using knife. Sure you can use the modern folders, but there is something wonderful about a well made tradtional slipjoint.

One hand opening... oh sure. That's cool. Done that. Honestly, I can "see" a one hand opening knife for woods use in the event that you have a damaged hand. Of course, I'm thinking SAK.

I lost a SAK yesterday... left it sit on a window sill where I was doing some work. Have used that particular knife for years. I have a spare which is in my pocket at the moment, but I would litterally be crying if it was one of my new GECs.

 

[zeroed4x]

Btw here is a photo of my python Bella which is why I chose this particular knife rather than just go for a Case or GEC. The motto is appealing too and not too novelty-ish...again without getting into politics.

[/QUOTE]

She's a beautiful carpet isn't she.
The knife is right up my ally, got to get one of those brother, would you mind letting me know where I can get one ?

Thank you

 

[SaintlyBrees]

...
The knife is right up my ally, got to get one of those brother, would you mind letting me know where I can get one ?

Thank you

That is a Rough Rider "Don't Tread On Me" Stockman, RR1390. Available from [large well known non-BF dealer knife vendor] (maybe elsewhere, too? - dunno) for around $12 - $15. Also available in trapper and, not sure, but possibly other patterns.

 

[dogstar]

I find the fewer parts a knife has, the more I like it. No fancy locks, bearings, a dozen torx screws... Just a pocket knife distilled to its very essence: a blade, a handle, a joint.

My current favorite is a Brown Mule Sodbuster, which is about as basic as a folding knife can be. I find its utilitarian design fascinating because it does exactly what is required, and not an iota more.

 

[knarfeng]

I have and carry both modern and traditional knives.

I carry traditionals more often because I find the blade shapes more useful for daily cutting chores than those of most modern knives.

 

[neeman]

What is the case/argument for traditionals over a modern folder?

May I suggest you reverse the question
What is the case/argument for modern folder over slipjoints?
This means the starting point is using slipjoints and examining why to move to a modern folder
I already have in my pocket a mutlitude of patterns, sizes, scales, and steels, where the purmutations are almost limitless on what I want to use that day or what attracts me to buy that knife

What does the modern folder have to offer me?
A larger knife with a single larger thicker blade, and a limited choice (if at all) of scales
I unfortunately get the falacy that a locking knife is infallable, safe like a fixed blade
I do get the ability to open the knife with one hand, (sorry not open but deploy)

 

[cchu518]

That one is easy for me, reversing the question, I will be keeping the traditional on my person or in my work bag as I don't need a quick one hand deployment of a knife at my work place or anywhere public. My moderns stay in my utility drawer at home for knife duty around the house for anyone to grab to do some quick cutting.

What is the case/argument for traditionals over a modern folder?

May I suggest you reverse the question
What is the case/argument for modern folder over slipjoints?
This means the starting point is using slipjoints and examining why to move to a modern folder
I already have in my pocket a mutlitude of patterns, sizes, scales, and steels, where the purmutations are almost limitless on what I want to use that day or what attracts me to buy that knife

What does the modern folder have to offer me?
A larger knife with a single larger thicker blade, and a limited choice (if at all) of scales
I unfortunately get the falacy that a locking knife is infallable, safe like a fixed blade
I do get the ability to open the knife with one hand, (sorry not open but deploy)

 

[mnblade]

What is the case/argument for traditionals over a modern folder?

May I suggest you reverse the question
What is the case/argument for modern folder over slipjoints?
This means the starting point is using slipjoints and examining why to move to a modern folder

That is a good, philosophical point. :thumbup:

-- Mark

 

[pinnah]

May I suggest you reverse the question
What is the case/argument for modern folder over slipjoints?

If I were working in the trades, I could see the attraction especially of the combination of thumbstud/spydie hole/flipper with pocket clip and liner/frame lock. These knives can be one hand opened and closed, are (mostly) rigid and can be carried in a pocket while still giving easy access, a significant improvement over belt carried knives like the 110.

I still work on bikes and end up working in my personal shop a lot and, like most guys my age, on my property. I do find one hand open/close to be important to me but it's a few times a day for me, not 100s. So, the Opinel works just fine for my purposes. I should underscore that, for me, one hand close is just as important as one hand open and in this way, the Opinel (and liner locks with a bit more care) have beat out my old loyalty to Buck lock backs, which for sane people are two hand closers.

The second reason is that they make a better concealed weapon. Please, don't anybody take any judgement pro or con in that statement. I'm trying to state that a just a dead level fact of the matter. If that is a goal of buyer (and it is for a lot of people), the modern flipper is simply better.

 

[pinnah]

I have and carry both modern and traditional knives.

I carry traditionals more often because I find the blade shapes more useful for daily cutting chores than those of most modern knives.

This is a big of it for me, big time.

 

[grelcar]

I carry a traditional knives because I like them. I carry modern knives because the are easier and quicker to access with a pocket clip and one hand opening. I find modern knives generally stronger. I prefer modern knives that are thin with a more of a slicer grind. I almost always carry one of each. I collect traditional knives and own many more of these than I do modern knives. None of my modern knives are what I consider tactical knives. My modern knives are my hard use knives and are often abused compared to how I treat my traditional knives.

Today, I am carrying a good old yellow Case Sodbuster Jr with a great natural patina on the razor sharp CV blade and a Spyderco Delica 4 with a full flat grind. This is a good hard working combo. Yesterday it was a chestnut bone SBJ with the Delica.

Greg

 

[singularity35]

Ever since a member here(Timberweasel, thank you!) gifted me a few slippies a year ago, I've carried both a traditional and modern. Over the past year, my modern folder carry has rotated from one to another flavor but the rough rider in the bottom of my pocket hasn't been rotated until today when Timberweasel once again gifted me with an even better slippie. As soon as I opened the package, I dropped the boker canoe(plus a couple of opinels which remained in the car) into my pocket and put the rough rider in the box for the day. These days, I have to travel a bit on a boat to another island and modern folders are usually a no-no. The last month, I carried that rough rider with me on the boat and it got me through my food, paperwork, and other mundane tasks that I use a knife for when I travel. I didn't feel the need another knife, though truth be told I had my leatherman(multitools are allowed too) on my belt.

So that's my story and for the forseeable future, I'll have a slippie with me probably each time I'm out of the house.

 

[DrPenguin]

I was reading some of the posts in this last page about "consumerism" and I couldn't help but think of Fight Club and what they say there about life becoming an Ikea catalog...it's neither here nor there, but I thought I'd drop it in.

That is weird odd movie that I expected to hate but ended up loving. Once you get past the gratuitous violence there are some very profound ideas brought to the fore. It is tough to find ~meaning~ in your life sometimes. We all struggle to align millenia of evolution with modern ideas of a man's role in the world. I agree with the gist of the movie: That meaning you are searching for ain't gonna be found because you upgraded your dining room set or bought a fancier car. YMMV.


Will

 

[DrPenguin]

I searched back on some threads so see what Woodrow and Dr Penguin meant in their statements. It was very poignant. I want to give up all the extra things and have myself know that the world does not stop because I don't have the next new fangled thing and be at ease with that. I.E. I use knives a lot with my garden. Ultimately its the vegetables that we harvest in our garden on the weekends that my wife and myself love to eat in the summer and why we look forward to summer every year. So we need a little knife to cut string or put a notch into a pole, detangle deer fencing etc...etc... My compulsion for framelocks shouldn't be penultimate to the enjoyment of the harvest, the cutting instrument shouldn't factor at all and I was allowing that to get in the way of things. I think I'm working through that now. With that said, I just picked up a traditional and to date still have four of the dozen modern folders I had picked up in the past few months. It's a good start in trying to stop my own personal consumerism, I'm going to try, really try to not purchase another knife through the end of the year. Let's see how it goes!

Lol, it's a tough row to hoe ain't it?

Take what I say with a grain of salt. What I choose to do may not work for everyone. I still have a collection. I will continue to add to it I am sure. I still look at all the neat designs and admire how they are thought out. I'm still a knifeknut. My genes are still compromised hahaha! I am just more selective now. A lot more selective.

But I can definitely understand your point about enjoying gardening as it is one of my hobbies as well. And your point about worrying about nonsensical minutiae is exactly what I was trying to say in my own clumsy way. I have drawn a hard line in the sand. I am completely satisfied with what I am carrying. What I carry won't change. Not only does it allow me to enjoy what I have more, I honestly think it provides a link in the way I carry my knives now to how the knives were carried and used decades and decades ago. Those guys didn't have dozens and dozens of knives that they rotated. They had one or two and that was that. And some of them were treasured and really well cared for.

Ever see a traditional knife that was carried for maybe a decade or so with well worn and smoothed down handles and a blade that although well used had been honed carefully to save the metal? Honest patina that tells a story and a lot about the man carrying it? That's a product of what might be called the "traditional styled life" by someone more romantic than me. A man can only produce a few of these masterpieces in his life. I have one that fits that bill and want a couple more to pass on to the next generation when the time comes. And back to the original post this is a powerful reason that I cannot and will not go modern... I've never seen a modern knife that produced the reaction in me that these old masterpieces have. They just don't seem to age well... to me, I mean no offense to anyone or their tastes.

Sorry for the long ramble. I just went on a lot longer than I meant to.

Will